Official On-Going Dragon Ball Super Movie #2 Thread: "Super Hero"

[Extreme_kai]

I'm really bummed by all the negativity on this forum, I'm excited to see the movie and the new forms but I'm shocked a lot of you claim to be fans of Dragon Ball given how you talk about it here, smdh, I wish the English version was coming sooner than 2 months tho

We can be fans of a series and think the current stuff is lame.

Except those who have seen the movie like it or are generally positive about what happened. Most of the criticisms, especially here, are from people who didn’t see the movie and are basing everything on summaries and out of context YouTube clips.

Did I have to pay money to watch Morbius in theaters to know it was a bad movie? When people say "Well, you didn't even see the movie" they're essentially saying you have to pay money to actually have an opinion on it. I've seen and read enough to know this movie isn't worth my time, money, or support.

[ZombieVito]

Also Shenron only having one wish in the movie when he should have three. Which oddly makes sense for the anime since the cast took too long for Shenron to grant his last wish.

Shenron grants 3 in the movie.

[HeroR]

We can be fans of a series and think the current stuff is lame.

Except those who have seen the movie like it or are generally positive about what happened. Most of the criticisms, especially here, are from people who didn’t see the movie and are basing everything on summaries and out of context YouTube clips.

Did I have to pay money to watch Morbius in theaters to know it was a bad movie? When people say "Well, you didn't even see the movie" they're essentially saying you have to pay money to actually have an opinion on it. I've seen and read enough to know this movie isn't worth my time, money, or support.

You didn’t watch Morbius so how would you know it’s bad? I watched plenty of movies that people claimed were bad or terrible and ended liking them despite its flaws. I’m a person who love the Star Wars prequels after all.

Fact is, you don’t know, so you can’t give valid criticism because your opinions are based on hearsay and out of context clips.

Also Shenron only having one wish in the movie when he should have three. Which oddly makes sense for the anime since the cast took too long for Shenron to grant his last wish.

Shenron grants 3 in the movie.

I was talking about Broly.

[SaiyanGod117]

After listening to the plot from people that actually saw the movie, I'm saving my money. I cannot in good faith support this at all. This movie should not be rewarded for mediocre writing, character usage, plot, and visuals(Yes, I still think the visuals look mostly bad). I get that Dragonball wants to sell merch, but orange Piccolo looks lame asf, Gohan Blanco is so mid and Cell MAx is an absolute abomination of a design. Goku, Vegeta, and Broly sell merch. A new Cooler, actual Cell, Janamba, Bojack, New villain, etc would have sold merch. A rehashed, dead brain design of an old villain that does not appease fans of the character or fans of new material is not a win. They Nostalgia baited and didn't even get that right. I'll watch the short slice-of-life scenes when they are uploaded to youtube because I love these characters, I just don't like the scenarios they are written into anymore. I put my money where my mouth was with the Broly movie, I can't with this. I refuse to eat slop just because the restaurant has the DB name on it, because the more slop I eat, the more they'll shovel in my face. I'd rather the franchise die than go on like this.

I agree 100%, especially with your last sentence.

I definitely agree with this, I'm kinda done complaining about the Super and just either enjoying or ignoring it but I can get behind the idea of not supporting mediocre products.

[Kepiaschkz]

I suspect Gohan Super Saiyan 2 Ultra Ultimate Instinct form is indeed a Toriyama design.
One of his original SSJ design had red eyes and multiple colored panels in his manga (Namek Saga) showed SSJ goku with white hair and red eyes.
Plus, the new form aircut is almost exactly the same than Shallot, just with a longer bang , from DB Legends which was also designed by Toriyama.

[Cipher]

Except Toyo claimed that Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah were the strongest mortals in U7 without even mentioning Broly wth the movie suggesting that Broly gives Beerus pause.

That and Gohan saying Goku and Vegeta can protect everyone so he doesn’t need to train as much is really odd after he saw Moro put his arm through Goku and Vegeta failing after his power up.

They’re worried about Broly hauling off and wrecking the place during a fight—the script can still work with their being stronger than him.

The reality is it was written prior to the end of the Moro or start of the Granolah arc, and without particular fealty to the small details of 131 episodes of the anime, but it works just as well/not well with either version. (Which is to say, no glaring contradictions, but also some small details that need aligning.) Fans will read into it what they want to read, I suppose.

To that extent, as pointed out, you could actually make the argument that it fits in least well with Toriyama’s own previous outing in Broly, based on the single wish! (Not seriously suggesting that, but.)

[HeroR]

Except Toyo claimed that Goku, Vegeta, and Granolah were the strongest mortals in U7 without even mentioning Broly wth the movie suggesting that Broly gives Beerus pause.

That and Gohan saying Goku and Vegeta can protect everyone so he doesn’t need to train as much is really odd after he saw Moro put his arm through Goku and Vegeta failing after his power up.

They’re worried about Broly hauling off and wrecking the place during a fight—the script can still work with their being stronger than him.

The reality is it was written prior to the end of the Moro or start of the Granolah arc, and without particular fealty to the small details of 131 episodes of the anime, but it works just as well/not well with either version. (Which is to say, no glaring contradictions, but also some small details that need aligning.) Fans will read into it what they want to read, I suppose.

To that extent, as pointed out, you could actually make the argument that it fits in least well with Toriyama’s own previous outing in Broly, based on the single wish! (Not seriously suggesting that, but.)

Still odd that Toyo went out of his way not to bring Broly up, but V had no issue.

And I originally wrote there’s a few wonkiness with the manga because the movie was written even before Moro was a thing. Which is probably why the manga feels like keeps moving Beerus’ full power (realistically Angel Moro should have been stronger than Beerus) while the movies have only moves Beerus’ power once and that’s by removing the 70% line using Super’s retelling of Battle of Gods. So Jiren and Broly being close to Beerus works while with the manga it really it doesn’t make much sense. Like by this point, Jiren would be a speck if we go by the manga, yet he’s still used as a strength reference by Vegeta.

Also, Vegeta saying that a lot of power from Jiren came from him not having any wasteful movements lined up with the director of the Broly movie saying that Goku was closed to the level of a God of Destruction despite Goku not having UI in Broly, which really doesn’t fly with with the manga where UI Goku is still somehow much weaker than Beerus. Granted, both the manga and anime showed Jiren was laughable above Blue, but it’s hard to say if Vegito meant Blue or something else. Especially with UI in the mix.

[batistabus]

I hope DBS:SH sets the tone for the next arc of the manga.

[Soba Mask]

So what do you think Final Gohan is? Breaking the potential and go even further beyond?

Has it god ki? Or will it something like Super Saiyan Rage...never explained

[wertham]

Are you seriously saying that the movies are in a different continuity than the manga just because Goku and Vegeta only mention Jiren and not Moro and Granolah? They're probably just waiting to an animated continuation of Super in order to present these characters to the general public and keeping the references to the manga at minimum so people who only followed the anime can keep track of what's happening. But there is no contradiction to anything: Jiren is still a rival who Goku wants to beat sometime in the future, that's it.

And, obviously, Broly is canon to the manga, the events of his movie are mentioned in it. The thing is that Toriyama probably wants to keep some characters to himself (like Broly, Cheelai and Lemo), and Toyo has to play with another set of characters and storylines.

It's more like when a superhero has two titles running in parallel with different writers: the stories are in the same continuity, but every writer is centered in different storylines and secondary characters that happens and are around the same main character.

About the new movie, overall, I'm not a huge fan of

Spoiler:

these new transformations, they look ugly and unnecessary

, but people who have seen the movie have enjoyed it, so maybe in context I wouldn't care. And reading a plot summary is not the same as seeing the movie. Seriously, we've been here already the last three movies and the same thing happened every time. It also happens EVERY time a plot summary is leaked about most of the manga episodes, and then people read it and then say "ok, it wasn't so bad, in fact i liked it" (not everyone, of course, but many people do so). Most of the storybeats of Dragon Ball work because of the execution and sound silly when are explained. I mean, even the original Super Saiyan was A HAIR RECOLOR

Wait and see.

[SquadronGOD]

I'm really bummed by all the negativity on this forum, I'm excited to see the movie and the new forms but I'm shocked a lot of you claim to be fans of Dragon Ball given how you talk about it here, smdh, I wish the English version was coming sooner than 2 months tho

We can be fans of a series and think the current stuff is lame.

Except those who have seen the movie like it or are generally positive about what happened. Most of the criticisms, especially here, are from people who didn’t see the movie and are basing everything on summaries and out of context YouTube clips.

You don't need to watch the movie to know that Gohan shouldn't be transforming and the new character designs are crap. Stop being fanboys.

[Sora Saiyan]

Like by this point, Jiren would be a speck if we go by the manga, yet he’s still used as a strength reference by Vegeta.

Jiren isn't used as a simple strength reference from what we've been told, he's been mentioned to be something they should strive for because he wasn't much stronger than Goku or Vegeta during the ToP yet he still felt so overwhelming. He was a superbly tuned machine, Goku and Vegeta arent like that yet. It seems that learning to be more like Jiren will make them capable of punching a couple of tiers above their weight despite not increasing their actual powerlevel.
How he compares to Goku and Vegeta currently is not mentioned I believe, and I can't help but shake the feeling they're being ambiguous as to not entirely contradict the manga due to the movie being made prior to the end of the Moro arc.
We don't even see Goku and Vegeta transform which I find odd, but allows them to not step on the mangas toes.

[Kataphrut]

The fact that they need to try and emulate Jiren is unintentionally hilarious in the context of the manga. Since Goku got Ultra instinct they've been trying to give Vegeta something to call his own as well. First it was Blue Evolution which was lame, then it was Spirit Fission which was built up as a big deal but didn't amount to much and after that Ultra Ego. What happens with that remains to be seen, but it's funny to go from that to Vegeta in this movie meditating like Jiren because he thinks that's what will finally put him over. And based on the post-credits scene, it actually works.

In other words, Vegeta tried doing it his way, the Yardat's way, Beerus' way and now Jiren's way, all because he couldn't do it Goku's way. It's kind of sad.

[HeroR]

We can be fans of a series and think the current stuff is lame.

Except those who have seen the movie like it or are generally positive about what happened. Most of the criticisms, especially here, are from people who didn’t see the movie and are basing everything on summaries and out of context YouTube clips.

You don't need to watch the movie to know that Gohan shouldn't be transforming and the new character designs are crap. Stop being fanboys.

So liking the characters designs is fanboying and not that I like the designs. Take your self righteousness somewhere else.

Like by this point, Jiren would be a speck if we go by the manga, yet he’s still used as a strength reference by Vegeta.

Jiren isn't used as a simple strength reference from what we've been told, he's been mentioned to be something they should strive for because he wasn't much stronger than Goku or Vegeta during the ToP yet he still felt so overwhelming. He was a superbly tuned machine, Goku and Vegeta arent like that yet. It seems that learning to be more like Jiren will make them capable of punching a couple of tiers above their weight despite not increasing their actual powerlevel.
How he compares to Goku and Vegeta currently is not mentioned I believe, and I can't help but shake the feeling they're being ambiguous as to not entirely contradict the manga due to the movie being made prior to the end of the Moro arc.
We don't even see Goku and Vegeta transform which I find odd, but allows them to not step on the mangas toes.

Stronger compared to what, Blue or UI? Because no matter if you look at the anime or the manga, UI was the only thing that stood up to Jiren.

And using TOP Jiren is odd if you take the manga where Vegeta tells Granolah that he isn’t hot crap despite being ‘the star in the universe’ because he was a noob in terms of fighting. So Vegeta knows about hitting above your weight with skill in the manga because he did it against Granolah.

The fact that they need to try and emulate Jiren is unintentionally hilarious in the context of the manga. Since Goku got Ultra instinct they've been trying to give Vegeta something to call his own as well. First it was Blue Evolution which was lame, then it was Spirit Fission which was built up as a big deal but didn't amount to much and after that Ultra Ego. What happens with that remains to be seen, but it's funny to go from that to Vegeta in this movie meditating like Jiren because he thinks that's what will finally put him over. And based on the post-credits scene, it actually works.

In other words, Vegeta tried doing it his way, the Yardat's way, Beerus' way and now Jiren's way, all because he couldn't do it Goku's way. It's kind of sad.

SSBE is more of a counterpart to Blue Kaioken than UI. The writers even said they’re about the same in power. That and meditating to get stronger is as old as dirt in Dragon Ball. Goku did while training with Kami.

[SquadronGOD]

No. Liking something regardless if it's crap or not is fanboying. People rather break canon just to see Gohan get a moment to shine. It's hilarious. His character has sucked since the Cell Games and he'll go back to sucking once it's the end of Z. That's just factual. I'm allowed to have a different opinion than you. I'm allowed to complain. Maybe you should focus on the movie instead of other peoples thoughts.

[Kataphrut]

The fact that they need to try and emulate Jiren is unintentionally hilarious in the context of the manga. Since Goku got Ultra instinct they've been trying to give Vegeta something to call his own as well. First it was Blue Evolution which was lame, then it was Spirit Fission which was built up as a big deal but didn't amount to much and after that Ultra Ego. What happens with that remains to be seen, but it's funny to go from that to Vegeta in this movie meditating like Jiren because he thinks that's what will finally put him over. And based on the post-credits scene, it actually works.

In other words, Vegeta tried doing it his way, the Yardat's way, Beerus' way and now Jiren's way, all because he couldn't do it Goku's way. It's kind of sad.

SSBE is more of a counterpart to Blue Kaioken than UI. The writers even said they’re about the same in power. That and meditating to get stronger is as old as dirt in Dragon Ball. Goku did while training with Kami.

It's in both versions though unlike Blue Kaioken. It's also treated as a significant development for Vegeta with it being the start of his bid to stop following in Goku's footsteps and achieve his own strength.

And yeah, meditating is pretty old school. Piccolo does it all the time and even Freeza did it in hell to power up his golden form. Way back when the ToP was airing I thought that with that, plus the fact that Jiren was always doing it, mental training was going to have some significant payoff in the series. It didn't and I forgot all about it, so this movie bringing it back was a nice surprise.

[wertham]

At this point, I think it's obvious that the new transformations aren't something that Toriyama comes up with, but an imposition from above to sell toys and hype the more simplistic fans. The uglyness or simplicity of these new forms is the way Toriyama has found since BoG to entertain himself with the idea and to make fun of everyone who wants more and more transformations. I'm ok with that (but I really would prefer no new transformations at all, of course).

[HeroR]

The fact that they need to try and emulate Jiren is unintentionally hilarious in the context of the manga. Since Goku got Ultra instinct they've been trying to give Vegeta something to call his own as well. First it was Blue Evolution which was lame, then it was Spirit Fission which was built up as a big deal but didn't amount to much and after that Ultra Ego. What happens with that remains to be seen, but it's funny to go from that to Vegeta in this movie meditating like Jiren because he thinks that's what will finally put him over. And based on the post-credits scene, it actually works.

In other words, Vegeta tried doing it his way, the Yardat's way, Beerus' way and now Jiren's way, all because he couldn't do it Goku's way. It's kind of sad.

SSBE is more of a counterpart to Blue Kaioken than UI. The writers even said they’re about the same in power. That and meditating to get stronger is as old as dirt in Dragon Ball. Goku did while training with Kami.

It's in both versions though unlike Blue Kaioken. It's also treated as a significant development for Vegeta with it being the start of his bid to stop following in Goku's footsteps and achieve his own strength.

And yeah, meditating is pretty old school. Piccolo does it all the time and even Freeza did it in hell to power up his golden form. Way back when the ToP was airing I thought that with that, plus the fact that Jiren was always doing it, mental training was going to have some significant payoff in the series. It didn't and I forgot all about it, so this movie bringing it back was a nice surprise.

The idea of SSBE is in both versions, however, SSBE in the manga looks nothing like the anime and we know the anime staff were the ones to create it first and say it’s only as strong as Blue Kaioken. It’s a step, but was never treated as his answer to UI. The anime made that clear by booted Vegeta out before Goku got UI for the third time.

Mental training was always big in Super since even Future Trunks did via image training where Black kept killing him.

[SquadronGOD]

At this point, I think it's obvious that the new transformations aren't something that Toriyama comes up with, but an imposition from above to sell toys and hype the more simplistic fans. The uglyness or simplicity of these new forms is the way Toriyama has found since BoG to entertain himself with the idea and to make fun of everyone who wants more and more transformations. I'm ok with that (but I really would prefer no new transformations at all, of course).

Straight up Toei interference. They forced him to add Vegito, Broly, and Gogeta, ruining potara in the process. The fact that they constantly show Gohan transforming between base and super saiyan is just a lack of care for the lore.. that's why I'm so irritated with his new form. He doesn't need to transform. That was the whole point of the old kais ritual. And at this point, they should just use Shenron to fight because his power is getting out of hand.

[Majin Buu]

No. Liking something regardless if it's crap or not is fanboying. People rather break canon just to see Gohan get a moment to shine. It's hilarious. His character has sucked since the Cell Games and he'll go back to sucking once it's the end of Z. That's just factual. I'm allowed to have a different opinion than you. I'm allowed to complain. Maybe you should focus on the movie instead of other peoples thoughts.

But what if said person doesn't think it's crap though? Your perspective isn't the only perspective.