MrGohanks wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:23 pm
How much stronger do you guys think Whis is compared to MUI Goku? Also:
SSJ1 Kefla (anime) vs SSB Vegeta (Moro arc)
Piccolo (BoG) vs SSJ1 Goku (Buu saga)
Tien (ToP anime) vs SSJ1 Vegeta (early Android arc)
Super 17 (peak power) vs Syn Shenron
1) Many, many times stronger. Goku's been growing stronger and surpassing foes that were much stronger than he was, and he is still below Beerus, who is one shot material for a suppressed Whis. Since Whis is more of a moving goalpost than Beerus, there's no way to tell how strong he is, and probably we'll never know. No matter how much stronger than Gas the next foe is, and no matter how much stronger Goku gets to beat him, he will still be far from Whis.
2) With SSBE he is above 4th Sign Goku, and 2nd Sign was already too much for Kefla's SS2. I just don't see SSB Vegeta losing to a lesser form of Kefla, when he is one boost away from beating the strongest version of the "form" that rung her out at her strongest.
3) Piccolo got surpassed a long time ago by regular SS. His decline should've already been a thing by BoG, so he shouldn't be on par with a form that was already ahead of him at his best. I'd give it to Goku.
4) Tenshinhan ain't touching no Super Saiyan. Only during the ToP he could shoot a NKH on a busy SS Vegeta and do something. He'd need him to be distracted, but most importantly, SS Vegeta cannot know he is fighting Tenshinhan to lose to him.
5) I remember Super 17's speed was his greatest asset or what Goku was struggling the most, and also Suu Shenron was incredibly fast, too. No comment was made but they should be at least as fast. That speed didn't prevent Ih Shenron from oneshotting him and then fucking up SS4 with no effort. I'm going with Ih, here, specially because he is not braindead like GT Goku, he is not spamming ki attacks on strangers, he'll melee the fuck out of Super 17.
Saiyan007 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:29 pm
Manga Base TOP Goku vs Super Perfect Cell
SSJ2 Manga Trunks vs Kid buu
Moro 73 Vs Jiren and Broly
Buu saga piccolo vs Cell Games Goku
Manga Zamasu vs Majin Vegeta
SSJ Goku & Gohan Cell Games vs Perfect Cell
1) An arc prior, he needed SS2 to match Trunks' who he said was even stronger than the Gohan that killed Cell, having Trunks and himself on a very specific tier. Therefore, he'd need to become 100x stronger to be on that level without SS2. Cell wins.
2) Trunks definitely. He was overwhelming SS3 Goku, who by now should destroy Kid Buu.
3) Moro73 without any problems actually. He is individually stronger than both of them, although if they were to team up, it would be a problem (the saiyans never fought him together), Broly would be the most fun source of food for Moro. Just a mindless brute that is weaker than Moro. Jiren would have to face a Moro73 powered up by Broly, and if he grabs his neck, fuck it.
4) I think Goku takes it. Mainly RoF, and also U6, established Piccolo's growth wasn't as great as people originally thought. So, after the Buu arc and BoG, he is not getting any stronger, so I doubt he close the gap early on.
5) Future Manga Zamasu was said to be even weaker than Trunks, who was above Z SS3 tier. Present Zamasu probably wasn't that strong 20 years ago, so if he got 10x stronger in that period of time, that already makes him weaker than Majin Vegeta. If we go by his sparring session with Kibito, which had him struggle a tiny bit, then he is not touching Majin Geets.
6) I think they could do it. Of course, Cell powers up to his full power and he cleans the closet, but the power he showed while not being serious should be surpassed by a Son Family Team Up, and they might be able to kill him before he goes FP. Cells is full of himself, enough for it to backfire on him.