They said that declining comic book sales had nothing to do with a poor reaction to a “diverse cast”, and used the films/shows as counterexamples that show that consumers actually DO NOT dislike diverse representation in media. It was a proper counterpoint, you just didn’t understand it.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:42 pmAnd then you proceeded to get it wrong?
So after mentioning that comic sales took a slump after changing all their iconic characters for a new more diverse cast. Your counter to that was that Marvel were making movies/TV shows with minorities?
Ok...? Did you miss the successful Blade trilogy and Black Panther or something?
You didnt make a counter point to begin with...
How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
....I never said that consumers didn't like diverse representation in media...what are you on about?PurestEvil wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:54 pmThey said that declining comic book sales had nothing to do with a poor reaction to a “diverse cast”, and used the films/shows as counterexamples that show that consumers actually DO NOT dislike diverse representation in media. It was a proper counterpoint, you just didn’t understand it.
Black Panther made $1.3 billion, it's one of the most successful superhero movies of all time.
How can you make a counterpoint to something that wasn't even said to begin with lol.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:00 pm....I never said that consumers didn't like diverse representation in media...what are you on about?PurestEvil wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 4:54 pmThey said that declining comic book sales had nothing to do with a poor reaction to a “diverse cast”, and used the films/shows as counterexamples that show that consumers actually DO NOT dislike diverse representation in media. It was a proper counterpoint, you just didn’t understand it.
.
Take Marvel for example. They had a period where they decided to have a female Wolverine, female Thor, a black Captain America, a black female Iron Man and a gay Hulk.
Comic sales went down the toilet and they quickly had to reverse it. That's where representation got them
Are you just not paying attention to your own post? I don't blame you, but come on.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
But the comics have been collapsing since the 1990s bubble burst, which was a good ten-to-fifteen years before they even attempted to be more inclusive. US cape comics sell like shit because they're a pain to read, expensive, too infrequent and consumer wages are kept too low by capitalism.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:16 pmTo which I then specifically brought up the comics....not the movies or TV shows...so why did you even mention them?
How did you make the same mistake twice?
Meanwhile, the films and television series that have more inclusive characters are popular and profitable.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Boy you must hate the Goku/Chichi straight relationship getting shoved in your face, I mean they even BREED for god's sake. Then there's Bulma/Vegeta, Gohan/Videl, Krillin/18...and then there's Master Roshi and Oolong constantly reminding everyone how sexually attracted to women they are.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 11:46 amThis is the only time I've posted on this topic...
Nothing I said was wrong anyway. Tien, Raditz, Nappa, Frieza, Dabura, Hit, Zamasu, Shin, Whis, Broly, Granolah, Gas and on and on. Do we know their preference? Does it matter in the slightest bit what their preference is?
Is Dragon Ball a series about aliens punching each other hard in the face? Or is it a soap opera where the characters gossip about who likes who?
So Jiren would be gay? Ok....why? He's appeared in one arc in a tournament where he fought people. What of it? What's it gonna do?
"I don't want to see any of that stuff!"
And yet here you are, specifically objecting to a character prospectively being gay.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
The Marvel comic industry has been making increased revenue continually since 2011 with one exception which was during that All New Marvel phase I was referring to.
That aside I'm not even talking about an entire industry. Just the comic sales for the individual heroes. They replaced the iconic cast with a new one, sales slumped so they did a 180.
This is all moving quite off topic anyway do to bring it back around...
If Jiren were gay, fans wouldn't react well, they wouldn't react well because it's not the series for it and they'd know it would being done just to tick a box. There you go.
That aside I'm not even talking about an entire industry. Just the comic sales for the individual heroes. They replaced the iconic cast with a new one, sales slumped so they did a 180.
This is all moving quite off topic anyway do to bring it back around...
If Jiren were gay, fans wouldn't react well, they wouldn't react well because it's not the series for it and they'd know it would being done just to tick a box. There you go.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
*facepalm* How are you this dumb?Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:16 pmTo which I then specifically brought up the comics....not the movies or TV shows...so why did you even mention them?
How did you make the same mistake twice?
You brought up failed comic book sales as proof that diversity doesn't work and backfires.
I pointed out comic books sales were on the decline long before that and pointed where diversity in film and tv (media that most people actually consume) is working out just fine for Marvel. If your argument that diversity leads to failed sales held any water that would mean those movies and shows would have tanked too.
It's almost like failing comic book sales have nothing to do with diversity and everything to do with lack of accessibility and people feeling more comfortable just watching the movies/show version.
Hopefully you're just playing stupid on purpose because my god.
Fanboys also had a bad reaction to the mere existence of female Saiyans so oh wellIf Jiren were gay, fans wouldn't react well,
What does that even mean? As been pointed out to you ,by multiple people, plenty of characters in this franchise do express sexual attraction. No matter how badly you try to pretend that sexual attraction doesn't exist in Dragon Ball, it very clearly does. It's not an asexual utopia, Rebecca.they wouldn't react well because it's not the series for it
Uggh I can't believe they introduced a girl cyborg who could beat Vegeta in a fight. They're just ticking a box.and they'd know it would being done just to tick a box. There you go.
Oh wow Commander Red's right hand man is a black man? Forced diversity much?
The Fat Majin Buu is just trying to appease fat acceptance people. Pandering!
See how fucking stupid that sounds?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Already been discussed.Cursed Lemon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:34 pmBoy you must hate the Goku/Chichi straight relationship getting shoved in your face, I mean they even BREED for god's sake. Then there's Bulma/Vegeta, Gohan/Videl, Krillin/18...and then there's Master Roshi and Oolong constantly reminding everyone how sexually attracted to women they are.
Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship is non existent. They shared a small number of scenes together in the original manga just like Vegeta/Bulma and Krillin/18.
Gohan and Videl was the only thing close to resembling any sort of relationship and it was brief at that and not even really a relationship.
Master Roshi/Oolong make for a tired gag.
Relationships in Dragon Ball amount to little more than breeding a new character or a pervy joke.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
So you think straight relationships are throwaway elements, yet you won't allow gay characters to either perform the same function OR actually have a meaningful relationship because you object to adding them in at all.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:40 pmAlready been discussed.Cursed Lemon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:34 pmBoy you must hate the Goku/Chichi straight relationship getting shoved in your face, I mean they even BREED for god's sake. Then there's Bulma/Vegeta, Gohan/Videl, Krillin/18...and then there's Master Roshi and Oolong constantly reminding everyone how sexually attracted to women they are.
Goku and Chi-Chi's relationship is non existent. They shared a small number of scenes together in the original manga just like Vegeta/Bulma and Krillin/18.
Gohan and Videl was the only thing close to resembling any sort of relationship and it was brief at that and not even really a relationship.
Master Roshi/Oolong make for a tired gag.
Relationships in Dragon Ball amount to little more than breeding a new character or a pervy joke.
Because, as it turns out, in order to have a character be gay, you have to actually introduce the gay part of them.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Dragon Ball literally has two canon queer characters, characters that are written as a political statement of "queer people are disgusting". There's clearly room for insulting queer people, so why not make room for not insulting queer people and actually showing queer people to be cool?Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:35 pm If Jiren were gay, fans wouldn't react well, they wouldn't react well because it's not the series for it and they'd know it would being done just to tick a box. There you go.
Like, damn, Gokuu and Vegeta get to show off how much they enjoy banging their wives and Oolong and Roushi get to be horny little pieces of shit but Jiren can have romantic or sexual feelings for Gokuu? Or Toppo? Jiren's respect for Gokuu in the last episode can't also have a shade of romantic attraction? Kale and Caulifla can't kiss or get married? Or even hold each other in clearly romantic ways?
My goodness, all of that can be done in a split second, you wouldn't even notice unless you hate queer people.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Which is wrong anyway.
Which is nice but...had nothing to do with what I said.and pointed where diversity in film and tv (media that most people actually consume) is working out just fine for Marvel.
.....no....what on earth are you talking about? The two things don't relate to each other at all.If your argument that diversity leads to failed sales held any water that would mean those movies and shows would have tanked too.
The comics failed because they "killed" off the iconic characters only to replace them with the new character under the same role to tick a diversity box and it backfired.
So then you somehow tried to make a counterpoint to that by saying...well they made a Ms Marvel TV show and the Miles Morales Spider-Man was well liked.
Lol...so? It's completely irrelevant to what I said altogether. What does one have to do with the other?
By some miracle you took what I said and took it to mean "Oh he's saying people don't like minorities in Marvel! Well look here's some movies and shows with minorities!" and thought you were making a clever counterpoint to it.
The first successful Marvel movie ever made starred a black character, come on now...
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Straight relationships are throwaway elements with the function of birthing a new character.Cursed Lemon wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:42 pmSo you think straight relationships are throwaway elements, yet you won't allow gay characters to either perform the same function OR actually have a meaningful relationship because you object to adding them in at all
As gay characters can't perform that function then it would serve no purpose.
Of all the major characters in Dragon Ball, how many are confirmed straight but do not have a child and their fondness for the opposite sex isn't treated as a joke?
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
How could we forget Roshi's son and Yamcha's daughterXeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:01 pm
Straight relationships are throwaway elements with the function of birthing a new character.
Wait a sec.
Characters who do not have kids have expressed sexual attraction in Dragon Ball. Characters were expressing sexual attraction before they had kids.As gay characters can't perform that function then it would serve no purpose.
Why can't a gay characters thirst for the same sex be treated as a joke? (As in damn this character is horny not haha gay)Of all the major characters in Dragon Ball, how many are confirmed straight but do not have a child and their fondness for the opposite sex isn't treated as a joke?
But also Yamcha's social anxiety around women was played for humor but his attraction to women isn't treated as a joke.
Kuririn wanting to get married wasn't treated as a joke and he and 18 didn't hook up so Toriyama could create the oh so important character of Marron. Marron exist to show 18 and Kuririn have sex. Like yeah Goku and Chi Chi got together so Toriyama could give Goku a son and Bulma and Vegeta got together so Vegets could have a son from the future but Kuririn's relationship with 18 didn't exist to give Kuririn a daughter.
Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Plenty of gay couples get pregnant, by the way.
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
This is true but I don't think a theoretical gay couple in Dragon Ball needs to have a child to validate themselves anymore than Kuririn needed to have a daughter a near decade in real time after his debut to validate his attraction to women and hopeless romantic attitude
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Nothing you have said excepts adding a gay character specifically. Unless you can specifically point to a crusade you waged against straight characters getting into relationships because it pAnDeRs tO tHe sTrAiGhTs, this sounding awfully bad faith.Xeno Goku Black wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:01 pmStraight relationships are throwaway elements with the function of birthing a new character.
As gay characters can't perform that function then it would serve no purpose.
Of all the major characters in Dragon Ball, how many are confirmed straight but do not have a child and their fondness for the opposite sex isn't treated as a joke?
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
Oh, absolutely, I just wanted to mention it because the idea that couples can't get pregnant sounds so weird to read.MasenkoHA wrote: ↑Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:21 pmThis is true but I don't think a theoretical gay couple in Dragon Ball needs to have a child to validate themselves anymore than Kuririn needed to have a daughter a near decade in real time after his debut to validate his attraction to women and hopeless romantic attitude
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Re: How would the Dragon Ball fandom react if Jiren were made into a gay man?
You're saying these straight characters don't have a child? So therefore they are characters whose heterosexuality is treated as a joke, as I said, multiple times now that it was merely one or the other...
That's now the third time you've done this, why?
Yes...I mentioned this.Characters who do not have kids have expressed sexual attraction in Dragon Ball.
They can. General Blue did so with that kid from Dr Slump was similar to what Roshi did with Bulma.Why can't a gay characters thirst for the same sex be treated as a joke?
It was criticized of course but if it were treated as a joke then it's not really unnecessary is it? Its purpose would be for jokes.
People would likely complain about it mind you.
It kinda was at times. Being on the verge of death and complaining about how he'd never even had a girlfriend was kind of the joke.Kuririn wanting to get married wasn't treated as a joke