Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?

[DBZAOTA482]

Clearly the cartoon does well with its target audience. Its just adults seem less interested in the anime. Kids are people too. Barely. But still.

Yeah, it still has a niche but to be truly successful, you gotta crossover.

Fads go away in a year or two. They don't make big money over 25 years later.

Pokemon needs to release material in a consistent basis to stay relevant. Dragon Ball can release nothing and still have people talking about it.

[MasenkoHA]

Yeah, it still has a niche but to be truly successful, you gotta crossover.

Anything is possible when you make up the rules.

Pokemon needs to release material in a consistent basis to stay relevant. Dragon Ball can release nothing and still have people talking about it.

There's only brief periods when Dragon Ball truly released "nothing"

You had video games being released at the turn of the millennium. Boxsets of the series being released in the 00s. A recut series coming out at the end of that decade. And new material pretty much since 2013.

There really hasn't been much of a time for nothing especially if you lived in any of the countries where Dragon Ball was imported late to the party

[DBZAOTA482]

Anything is possible when you make up the rules.

I don't make the rules, sorry. I just know the game.

There's only brief periods when Dragon Ball truly released "nothing"

You had video games being released at the turn of the millennium. Boxsets of the series being released in the 00s. A recut series coming out at the end of that decade. And new material pretty much since 2013.

There really hasn't been much of a time for nothing especially if you lived in any of the countries where Dragon Ball was imported late to the party

The franchise as a whole took a break for 5 years in Japan after GT but quickly bounced back with Budokai and the Kanzenban re-releases.

There was also no new anime for several year gaps but you have Kai killing it in the west despite being a glorified fan-edit, BoG doing big numbers in the box office and bringing the franchise in general to arguably even greater heights of popularity than ever before, and DBS is competing with the big boys of the anime/manga market.

[Adamant]

Pokémon doesn't count, so yeah it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h ... franchises

I’m not entirely sure I buy the full accuracy of that list. Fist of the North Star/Hokuto No Ken above One Piece?

It's a pretty awful list. I looked into its claims about Pokemon once and found that it apparently counts the cover price of every issue of every magazine that has at least one page of Pokemon news in it as "money the Pokemon franchise grossed".


(Fist of the North Star-branded slot machines do make serious bank though)

[MrGohanks]

Globally? Yes. In every individual nation? No.

There's certain countries where another anime/manga franchise is more popular (One Piece and Gundam in Japan, Saint Seiya throughout Latin America, etc).

[Saiya6Cit]

Pokémon doesn't count, so yeah it is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_h ... franchises

The fact that Dragon Ball outsells fucking Batman is kind of impressive.

Not really, they got what they deserved by choosing that casting for Batman. I happen to be a fan of the batman franchise toos, but I will stay in topic for the sake of things...

I disagree with taking Pokemon into account because it is a videogame.

I can only speak for latinamerica and yes, here it is the most recognized anime. One Piece is generally only known among people who is already into anime, not the regular citizen, in Mexico (a developing country) most people is ignorant on the subject and would call anime "monos chinos" "chinese cartoons" but there is no doubt Goku is the most known character, even if they would call him Kokún instead

[MasenkoHA]

Not really, they got what they deserved by choosing that casting for Batman

Which casting? There's been multiple castings for Batman. Be specific.

[StevenPiccolo]

If that Wikipedia list is actually inaccurate, then I'll want to say yes to the topic question. There are other series that have been insanely popular but seemed to die down really fast, so I can't imagine those series have the game/movie/merchandise sales to beat out Dragon Ball.

Also, there is this blog https://diamondlobby.com/geeky-stuff/mo ... lar-anime/

This sure is an interesting method to go about it. Bleach of all things being the most searched in Japan is not what I would have ever expected at all, if I'm reading this correctly...

[Kunzait_83]

Pokemon's a fad. Dragon Ball is legendary.

Fads go away in a year or two. They don't make big money over 25 years later.

For real. I'd have loved to live in an alternate reality where Pokemon was just the brief Pogs-like blip of a fad it by all rights should've been and didn't somehow completely take over so many corners of pop culture and anime fandom for like the last 22/23 years or so to the point where it was near impossible to get away from.

Sadly though, that's not the reality we've been occupying for all that time now.

[DBZAOTA482]

Well, let's look at it this way:

When you become 80 and you try to school your grandkids on some Dragon Ball and Pokemon lore.

You talk about Goku vs. Frieza and the first Pokemon movie.

Which would do you think will impress them more?

[MasenkoHA]

Well, let's look at it this way:

When you become 80 and you try to school your grandkids on some Dragon Ball and Pokemon lore.

You talk about Goku vs. Frieza and the first Pokemon movie.

Which would do you think will impress them more?

Not....really...the point.


Nobody is trying to tell you Pokemon is as good or better than Dragon Ball. Just that it is by definition not a fad, when it has stayed financially successful and engrained in the pop culture subconscious.

[JulieYBM]

Well, let's look at it this way:

When you become 80 and you try to school your grandkids on some Dragon Ball and Pokemon lore.

You talk about Goku vs. Frieza and the first Pokemon movie.

Which would do you think will impress them more?

Not....really...the point.


Nobody is trying to tell you Pokemon is as good or better than Dragon Ball. Just that it is by definition not a fad, when it has stayed financially successful and engrained in the pop culture subconscious.

And to add on that: an industrial powerhouse for the Japanese animation industry with its unprecendented production schedules (until recently). Or its artistic progress made by Iwane Masaaki (regular solo key animator), Asada Yuuji (Iwane's episode director) and the general animation innovation seen in XY and Sun and Moon.

Pokemon's popularity hasn't just made anime in general popular globally it's also made the anime industry stronger by giving animators room to grow.

[DBZAOTA482]

Well, let's look at it this way:

When you become 80 and you try to school your grandkids on some Dragon Ball and Pokemon lore.

You talk about Goku vs. Frieza and the first Pokemon movie.

Which would do you think will impress them more?

Not....really...the point.


Nobody is trying to tell you Pokemon is as good or better than Dragon Ball. Just that it is by definition not a fad, when it has stayed financially successful and engrained in the pop culture subconscious.

Not quite the point I was getting at either.

I'm posing a question on which is more likely to stand the test of time many years in the future. I brought up those segments specifically because that's when they both peaked in popularity.

The Pokemon franchise's continued success doesn't change it from being fad-like in nature. If you keep pumping out new shit, of course people are gonna buy it. Like I explained before, Dragon Ball doesn't need to release shit to stay relevant. The impact of the original manga alone keeps it alive.

I haven't played the Pokemon games but I'm sure they're doing something right if people keep playing them. However, Pokemon didn't really define an entire genre or bring more awareness to an entire medium like Dragon Ball did.

It's only really known for making a lot of money.

...and it's not get into the anime's middling success for the past two decades.

[JulieYBM]

Well, let's look at it this way:

When you become 80 and you try to school your grandkids on some Dragon Ball and Pokemon lore.

You talk about Goku vs. Frieza and the first Pokemon movie.

Which would do you think will impress them more?

Not....really...the point.


Nobody is trying to tell you Pokemon is as good or better than Dragon Ball. Just that it is by definition not a fad, when it has stayed financially successful and engrained in the pop culture subconscious.

Not quite the point I was getting at either.

I'm posing a question on which is more likely to stand the test of time many years in the future. I brought up those segments specifically because that's when they both peaked in popularity.

The Pokemon franchise's continued success doesn't change it from being fad-like in nature. If you keep pumping out new shit, of course people are gonna buy it. Like I explained before, Dragon Ball doesn't need to release shit to stay relevant. The impact of the original manga alone keeps it alive.

I haven't played the Pokemon games but I'm sure they're doing something right if people keep playing them. However, Pokemon didn't really define an entire genre or bring more awareness to an entire medium like Dragon Ball did.

It's only really known for making a lot of money.

...and it's not get into the anime's middling success for the past two decades.

What middling success? The cartoon has been artistically successful and remained a core part of the media mix for the franchise. Similarly, the cartoon has been a a boon for Dragon Ball as a media mix, helping to keep the franchise in the public eye across the globe.

Come on y'all, we're Dragon Ball fans. Let us act no better than fucking Pokemon.

[DBZAOTA482]

Not....really...the point.


Nobody is trying to tell you Pokemon is as good or better than Dragon Ball. Just that it is by definition not a fad, when it has stayed financially successful and engrained in the pop culture subconscious.

Not quite the point I was getting at either.

I'm posing a question on which is more likely to stand the test of time many years in the future. I brought up those segments specifically because that's when they both peaked in popularity.

The Pokemon franchise's continued success doesn't change it from being fad-like in nature. If you keep pumping out new shit, of course people are gonna buy it. Like I explained before, Dragon Ball doesn't need to release shit to stay relevant. The impact of the original manga alone keeps it alive.

I haven't played the Pokemon games but I'm sure they're doing something right if people keep playing them. However, Pokemon didn't really define an entire genre or bring more awareness to an entire medium like Dragon Ball did.

It's only really known for making a lot of money.

...and it's not get into the anime's middling success for the past two decades.

What middling success? The cartoon has been artistically successful and remained a core part of the media mix for the franchise. Similarly, the cartoon has been a a boon for Dragon Ball as a media mix, helping to keep the franchise in the public eye across the globe.

Come on y'all, we're Dragon Ball fans. Let us act no better than fucking Pokemon.

The TV ratings aren't that high, the movies aren't doing crazy numbers in theaters (they don't even bother with the west), home video releases collect dust, and it gets zero respect from hardcore anime fans.

[JulieYBM]

Not quite the point I was getting at either.

I'm posing a question on which is more likely to stand the test of time many years in the future. I brought up those segments specifically because that's when they both peaked in popularity.

The Pokemon franchise's continued success doesn't change it from being fad-like in nature. If you keep pumping out new shit, of course people are gonna buy it. Like I explained before, Dragon Ball doesn't need to release shit to stay relevant. The impact of the original manga alone keeps it alive.

I haven't played the Pokemon games but I'm sure they're doing something right if people keep playing them. However, Pokemon didn't really define an entire genre or bring more awareness to an entire medium like Dragon Ball did.

It's only really known for making a lot of money.

...and it's not get into the anime's middling success for the past two decades.

What middling success? The cartoon has been artistically successful and remained a core part of the media mix for the franchise. Similarly, the cartoon has been a a boon for Dragon Ball as a media mix, helping to keep the franchise in the public eye across the globe.

Come on y'all, we're Dragon Ball fans. Let us act no better than fucking Pokemon.

The TV ratings aren't that high, the movies aren't doing crazy numbers in theaters (they don't even bother with the west), home video releases collect dust, and it gets zero respect from hardcore anime fans.

Dragon Ball doesn't have high TV ratings either. Anime in general does not. Anime is consumed differently these days, through streaming, for one.

Pokemon used to have the higest theatrical grossing in the west for films. They eventually stopped doing them in the west but that didn't stop Japan from treating the movies like big events and even hiring celebrity voices for lead roles.

The home videos are aimed at a fanily-friendly market. They're still profitable (as much as they can be for a thousand episode franchise).

Hardcore anime fans? What, western nerds who don't pay attention because it's only official aimed at kids rather than incorporated into the greater niche fandom
...because that isn't the target demo that TPC is aiming for? Or do you mean the hardcore fans who religiously track the TV listing to find out who is working on what upcoming episodes? Because I'd wager the former is not nearly as hardcore as the latter.

[DBZAOTA482]

What middling success? The cartoon has been artistically successful and remained a core part of the media mix for the franchise. Similarly, the cartoon has been a a boon for Dragon Ball as a media mix, helping to keep the franchise in the public eye across the globe.

Come on y'all, we're Dragon Ball fans. Let us act no better than fucking Pokemon.

The TV ratings aren't that high, the movies aren't doing crazy numbers in theaters (they don't even bother with the west), home video releases collect dust, and it gets zero respect from hardcore anime fans.

Dragon Ball doesn't have high TV ratings either. Anime in general does not. Anime is consumed differently these days, through streaming, for one.

Pokemon used to have the higest theatrical grossing in the west for films. They eventually stopped doing them in the west but that didn't stop Japan from treating the movies like big events and even hiring celebrity voices for lead roles.

The home videos are aimed at a fanily-friendly market. They're still profitable (as much as they can be for a thousand episode franchise).

Hardcore anime fans? What, western nerds who don't pay attention because it's only official aimed at kids rather than incorporated into the greater niche fandom
...because that isn't the target demo that TPC is aiming for? Or do you mean the hardcore fans who religiously track the TV listing to find out who is working on what upcoming episodes? Because I'd wager the former is not nearly as hardcore as the latter.

Dragon Ball Kai and Super's ratings were just below One Piece's in Japan and One Piece is king in Japan.

...and the movies still struggle to gross over $30 million each. The new Dragon Ball films do similar numbers in Japan alone and don't exhaust nearly as much assets.

DBZ's home videos sold like hotcakes. Even topped the billboard top 10 videos releases on multiple occasions.

Well it is an anime so it does matter if anime fans fuck with it. I've never met an anime fan still likes the Pokemon anime franchise.

Even if you're an anime fan and you don't like Dragon Ball, you can't deny its influence on the industry cuz when you diss DB, you're also dissing Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, Black Cat, Jijutsu Kaisen, etc.

[jjgp1112]

From what I've seen in the west, the Pokémon anime is way more of a niche thing past like Joto or whatever. The franchise is as big as ever but I don't think most people in the states have given a shit about the anime specifically for like 20 years

[OmegaRockman]

Anime/manga specific franchise? Absolutely. The Pokémon anime was probably bigger when the big boom happened, but I don't think the anime has retained/grown its audience the same way the DB anime has. Still, the Pokémon brand as a whole is overall more successful and recognizable than DB; I just think most of the audience has moved onto the games, which still make bookoo bucks. But if we're JUST comparing the anime, I think DB has the edge.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

I mean, as far as Pokemon the anime goes it's nowhere near the absolutely MASSIVE blitz circa 1999/2000. It was a full blown bonanza/phenomenon/craze at that point which it will likely never reach again. That was lightning in a bottle, and so much so that South Park even parodied it during that initial craze period when just about every kid and their dog was into the show among everything else. Sure, the hype train tapered off here around 2002 but that followed roughly three or four years of epic bomb on bomb popularity.

Those early seasons kicked ass in the ratings, though yeah nowadays the video games and to a lesser extent cards are what's more prevalent franchise wise.