Is Dragon Ball the biggest manga/anime series globally?

[DBZAOTA482]

I know you've been told this before. Anime was popular in the States long before DBZ crossed over.

It was but it was still a relatively niche market. In fact, anime didn't truly become mainstream in the west till around the mid 2000s.

DBZ got big when the anime boom was just beginning.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB937953097105580923

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB879452218989597500

Oh look no it wasn't

I guess it wasn't but those articles don't really explain the difference between Japanese and western animation. In fact, all the Pokemon article does is talking about how much money it makes (proving empirically the franchise is just a glorified cash cow) and the anime is merely a footnote.

The DBZ article even acknowledges it made anime "cool".

[JulieYBM]

I know you've been told this before. Anime was popular in the States long before DBZ crossed over.

It was but it was still a relatively niche market. In fact, anime didn't truly become mainstream in the west till around the mid 2000s.

DBZ got big when the anime boom was just beginning.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB937953097105580923

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB879452218989597500

Oh look no it wasn't

I guess it wasn't but those articles don't really explain the difference between Japanese and western animation. In fact, all the Pokemon article does is talking about how much money it makes (proving empirically the franchise is just a glorified cash cow) and the anime is merely a footnote.

The DBZ article even acknowledges it made anime "cool".

Dragon Ball is just a glorified cash cow, too. The cartoons for Dragon Ball literally only exist to sell more merchandise, including the comic.

Anime was already 'cool' and had been for decades at that point, it was just 'cool' in the sense that it stuck mainly to the sci-fi convention market. Dragon Ball Z was part of a one-two punch in combination with Pokemon and Toonami in making Japanese animation into mainstream brick-and-mortar fodder.

[DBZAOTA482]

I know you've been told this before. Anime was popular in the States long before DBZ crossed over.

It was but it was still a relatively niche market. In fact, anime didn't truly become mainstream in the west till around the mid 2000s.

DBZ got big when the anime boom was just beginning.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB937953097105580923

https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB879452218989597500

Oh look no it wasn't

I guess it wasn't but those articles don't really explain the difference between Japanese and western animation. In fact, all the Pokemon article does is talking about how much money it makes (proving empirically the franchise is just a glorified cash cow) and the anime is merely a footnote.

The DBZ article even acknowledges it made anime "cool".

Dragon Ball is just a glorified cash cow, too. The cartoons for Dragon Ball literally only exist to sell more merchandise, including the comic.

Anime was already 'cool' and had been for decades at that point, it was just 'cool' in the sense that it stuck mainly to the sci-fi convention market. Dragon Ball Z was part of a one-two punch in combination with Pokemon and Toonami in making Japanese animation into mainstream brick-and-mortar fodder.

The anime adaptations are undoubtably half-hour commercials for the manga, but the original manga itself is legendary. It's certified in this shit.

You didn't have people ranging from 3rd grade to college-age talking about it. It was mostly media-savvy people like the people who wrote those articles.

[MasenkoHA]

I know you've been told this before. Anime was popular in the States long before DBZ crossed over.

It was but it was still a relatively niche market. In fact, anime didn't truly become mainstream in the west till around the mid 2000s.

DBZ got big when the anime boom was just beginning.

Again, you've been told by multiple people this is provabley false


Here's Siskel and Ebert two of the most well known movie critics talking about Akira in the late 80s

https://youtu.be/LUjQfgbCmSY

Note Ebert mentioned the manga was a best seller in Japan AND America

https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

The Sci fi channel had its own anime block in 1995 https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

And noted by people like Kunzait and VegettoEX, video rental stores had sections dedicated to just anime in the 90s.

Next comes the part where you argue mainsteam means stuff you liked as a kid

The anime adaptations are undoubtably half-hour commercials for the manga, but the original manga itself is legendary. It's certified in this shit.

Oh ffs it was published in a magazine whose primary demographic was boys who hadn't grown any armpit hair yet.

[JulieYBM]

It was but it was still a relatively niche market. In fact, anime didn't truly become mainstream in the west till around the mid 2000s.

DBZ got big when the anime boom was just beginning.


I guess it wasn't but those articles don't really explain the difference between Japanese and western animation. In fact, all the Pokemon article does is talking about how much money it makes (proving empirically the franchise is just a glorified cash cow) and the anime is merely a footnote.

The DBZ article even acknowledges it made anime "cool".

Dragon Ball is just a glorified cash cow, too. The cartoons for Dragon Ball literally only exist to sell more merchandise, including the comic.

Anime was already 'cool' and had been for decades at that point, it was just 'cool' in the sense that it stuck mainly to the sci-fi convention market. Dragon Ball Z was part of a one-two punch in combination with Pokemon and Toonami in making Japanese animation into mainstream brick-and-mortar fodder.

The anime adaptations are undoubtably half-hour commercials for the manga, but the original manga itself is legendary. It's certified in this shit.

You didn't have people ranging from 3rd grade to college-age talking about it. It was mostly media-savvy people like the people who wrote those articles.

The original 1984 comic exists because JUMP wanted to sell magazines and Toriyama did what he was told for money. We as individuals might praise it as a work of art but it's ultimately a commercial work from inception into current form. There's nothing about the original comic that places it as being anymore #RealArt than its cartoon adaptions or any other commercial franchise.

[DBZAOTA482]

Again, you've been told by multiple people this is provabley false


Here's Siskel and Ebert two of the most well known movie critics talking about Akira in the late 80s

https://youtu.be/LUjQfgbCmSY

Note Ebert mentioned the manga was a best seller in Japan AND America

https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

The Sci fi channel had its own anime block in 1995 https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

And noted by people like Kunzait and VegettoEX, video rental stores had sections dedicated to just anime in the 90s.

Next comes the part where you argue mainsteam means stuff you liked as a kid

A movie critic is not exactly a very lucrative career path. The average joe doesn't care what some random nerd thinks.

The Akira manga didn't do crazy numbers. It did well enough in Japan but from the last given statistics, it only sold 5 million copies overseas by 2000.

The movie also got a very limited release in the west. It did help pave the way for other anime to succeed in the west bit it didn't exactly propell it to pop culture status.

The sci-fi anime block was geared towards adults and appealed almost exclusively to adults. Back then, animation in general was still being dismissed as "Kid stuff" so certainly not every adult watched it.

The thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a broader audience without sacrificing too much of what makes anime anime.

The idea Pokemon popularized anime is kinda laughable because we know 4kids never gave a shit about anime. That's why anime fans hate them so much.

Oh ffs it was published in a magazine whose primary demographic was boys who hadn't grown any armpit hair yet.

So because it's aimed at young boys it automatically means it has no artistic integrity? Sorry dude, but it sounds really snobbish.

Good shit is good shit. Don't matter it's intended audience.

[JulieYBM]

Again, you've been told by multiple people this is provabley false


Here's Siskel and Ebert two of the most well known movie critics talking about Akira in the late 80s

https://youtu.be/LUjQfgbCmSY

Note Ebert mentioned the manga was a best seller in Japan AND America

https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

The Sci fi channel had its own anime block in 1995 https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

And noted by people like Kunzait and VegettoEX, video rental stores had sections dedicated to just anime in the 90s.

Next comes the part where you argue mainsteam means stuff you liked as a kid

A movie critic is not exactly a very lucrative career path. The average joe doesn't care what some random nerd thinks.

The Akira manga didn't do crazy numbers. It did well enough in Japan but from the last given statistics, it only sold 5 million copies overseas by 2000.

The movie also got a very limited release in the west. It did help pave the way for other anime to succeed in the west bit it didn't exactly propell it to pop culture status.

The sci-fi anime block was geared towards adults and appealed almost exclusively to adults. Back then, animation in general was still being dismissed as "Kid stuff" so certainly not every adult watched it.

The thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a broader audience without sacrificing too much of what makes anime anime.

The idea Pokemon popularized anime is kinda laughable because we know 4kids never gave a shit about anime. That's why anime fans hate them so much.

Oh ffs it was published in a magazine whose primary demographic was boys who hadn't grown any armpit hair yet.

So because it's aimed at young boys it automatically means it has no artistic integrity? Sorry dude, but it sounds really snobbish.

Good shit is good shit. Don't matter it's intended audience.

No, we hated 4Kids because they only released edited, dub-only released of their cartoons, mocked fans of the original and were racist and xenophobic as hell. 4Kids absolutely helped make anime popular in the US through their dubs, we just wanted them to do better by the art that they were licensing.

[MasenkoHA]

A movie critic is not exactly a very lucrative career path. The average joe doesn't care what some random nerd thinks.

You're right. Thats why almost any positive review from their show or article was attached to pretty much any movies trailer or on its VHS (including 90s Disney movies) Because these dudes were so underground

The movie also got a very limited release in the west. It did help pave the way for other anime to succeed in the west bit it didn't exactly propell it to pop culture status.

Not single handedly. But it was a big part of it. Far more than DBZ.

The sci-fi anime block was geared towards adults and appealed almost exclusively to adults.

Oh look I must be psychic because I knew you were going confuse mainstream with stuff aimed at kids.

So because it's aimed at young boys it automatically means it has no artistic integrity? Sorry dude, but it sounds really snobbish.

Good shit is good shit. Don't matter it's intended audience.

No it means it was always a commercial product designed to help sell toys and kids bedsheets and backpacks and what not.

[DBZAOTA482]

You're right. Thats why almost any positive review from their show or article was attached to pretty much any movies trailer or on its VHS (inckuding 90s Disney movies) Because these dudes were so underground

Can you give an example of people buying media solely because of what a critic says? Good on trailers to use praise to hype up their products but if the product is good, it will sell itself.

Not single handedly. But it was a big part of it. Far more than DBZ.

Now you're just talking crazy.

Oh look I must be psychic because I knew you were going confuse mainstream with stuff aimed at kids.

It was aimed at kids but appealed to teens and adults as well.

DBZ was literally the highest-rated show in all of television among men ages 12-24 at one point and it was among the most searched word on Lycos. How many kids do you know used computers in the early 2000s?

No it means it was always a commercial product designed to help sell toys and kids bedsheets and backpacks and what not.

What Toriyama intended and what he actually wrote are totally different things. I think it's been made known he never intended for the series to get as big as it did.

[DBZAOTA482]

Again, you've been told by multiple people this is provabley false


Here's Siskel and Ebert two of the most well known movie critics talking about Akira in the late 80s

https://youtu.be/LUjQfgbCmSY

Note Ebert mentioned the manga was a best seller in Japan AND America

https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

The Sci fi channel had its own anime block in 1995 https://youtu.be/GEGzjlPk7sM

And noted by people like Kunzait and VegettoEX, video rental stores had sections dedicated to just anime in the 90s.

Next comes the part where you argue mainsteam means stuff you liked as a kid

A movie critic is not exactly a very lucrative career path. The average joe doesn't care what some random nerd thinks.

The Akira manga didn't do crazy numbers. It did well enough in Japan but from the last given statistics, it only sold 5 million copies overseas by 2000.

The movie also got a very limited release in the west. It did help pave the way for other anime to succeed in the west bit it didn't exactly propell it to pop culture status.

The sci-fi anime block was geared towards adults and appealed almost exclusively to adults. Back then, animation in general was still being dismissed as "Kid stuff" so certainly not every adult watched it.

The thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a broader audience without sacrificing too much of what makes anime anime.

The idea Pokemon popularized anime is kinda laughable because we know 4kids never gave a shit about anime. That's why anime fans hate them so much.

Oh ffs it was published in a magazine whose primary demographic was boys who hadn't grown any armpit hair yet.

So because it's aimed at young boys it automatically means it has no artistic integrity? Sorry dude, but it sounds really snobbish.

Good shit is good shit. Don't matter it's intended audience.

No, we hated 4Kids because they only released edited, dub-only released of their cartoons, mocked fans of the original and were racist and xenophobic as hell. 4Kids absolutely helped make anime popular in the US through their dubs, we just wanted them to do better by the art that they were licensing.

They struck gold with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! but they didn't really do much to bring more awareness to anime. In fact, they went out of their way to erase any trace of Japanese culture.

If they wanted to make the shows more "American", they should've made their own shows.

[JulieYBM]

A movie critic is not exactly a very lucrative career path. The average joe doesn't care what some random nerd thinks.

The Akira manga didn't do crazy numbers. It did well enough in Japan but from the last given statistics, it only sold 5 million copies overseas by 2000.

The movie also got a very limited release in the west. It did help pave the way for other anime to succeed in the west bit it didn't exactly propell it to pop culture status.

The sci-fi anime block was geared towards adults and appealed almost exclusively to adults. Back then, animation in general was still being dismissed as "Kid stuff" so certainly not every adult watched it.

The thing that made Toonami so special is that it appealed to a broader audience without sacrificing too much of what makes anime anime.

The idea Pokemon popularized anime is kinda laughable because we know 4kids never gave a shit about anime. That's why anime fans hate them so much.


So because it's aimed at young boys it automatically means it has no artistic integrity? Sorry dude, but it sounds really snobbish.

Good shit is good shit. Don't matter it's intended audience.

No, we hated 4Kids because they only released edited, dub-only released of their cartoons, mocked fans of the original and were racist and xenophobic as hell. 4Kids absolutely helped make anime popular in the US through their dubs, we just wanted them to do better by the art that they were licensing.

They struck gold with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! but they didn't really do much to bring more awareness to anime. In fact, they went out of their way to erase any trace of Japanese culture.

If they wanted to make the shows more "American", they should've made their own shows.

And yet I still stayed into and became a bigger fan of anime through their various anime licenses. Hell, my username is a Yuugi-Ou reference. Pokemon and Yuugi-Ou's popularity is a big part of what led to other companies licensing so many other Japanese series and films.

[DBZAOTA482]

No, we hated 4Kids because they only released edited, dub-only released of their cartoons, mocked fans of the original and were racist and xenophobic as hell. 4Kids absolutely helped make anime popular in the US through their dubs, we just wanted them to do better by the art that they were licensing.

They struck gold with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! but they didn't really do much to bring more awareness to anime. In fact, they went out of their way to erase any trace of Japanese culture.

If they wanted to make the shows more "American", they should've made their own shows.

And yet I still stayed into and became a bigger fan of anime through their various anime licenses. Hell, my username is a Yuugi-Ou reference. Pokemon and Yuugi-Ou's popularity is a big part of what led to other companies licensing so many other Japanese series and films.

Iirc the success of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z is what convinced Cartoon Network to give more anime (especially ones with darker stories) a chance.

Pokemon was undoubtably ahead in the anime market but it always pretty safe and close to western sensibilities so I can't imagine anyone watching it and being like "Holy shit! This anime shit is crazy!!". It's basically the MC Hammer of anime except Hammer pioneered pop rap.

Yu-Gi-Oh! could've been that other anime that was "edgy yet mainstream" but 4kids butchered the hell out of it because they wanted another Pokemon.

[JulieYBM]

They struck gold with Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! but they didn't really do much to bring more awareness to anime. In fact, they went out of their way to erase any trace of Japanese culture.

If they wanted to make the shows more "American", they should've made their own shows.

And yet I still stayed into and became a bigger fan of anime through their various anime licenses. Hell, my username is a Yuugi-Ou reference. Pokemon and Yuugi-Ou's popularity is a big part of what led to other companies licensing so many other Japanese series and films.

Iirc the success of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z is what convinced Cartoon Network to give more anime (especially ones with darker stories) a chance.

Pokemon was undoubtably ahead in the anime market but it always pretty safe and close to western sensibilities so I can't imagine anyone watching it and being like "Holy shit! This anime shit is crazy!!"

Yu-Gi-Oh! could've been that other anime that was "edgy yet mainstream" but 4kids butchered the hell out of it because they wanted another Pokemon.

The Pokemon cartoon series' production crew was literally forced to make the series easier to ship out to a global market by request of 4Kids. The series was so popular overseas that it was now being made specifically for overseas. Furthermore, again, we all knew that Pokemon was a Japanese cartoon grew up. I was there. I lived. There was no material denial that Pokemon was Japanese among people who watched Japanese cartoons in the US and other licensors hopped into the game of licensing as much Japanese animation as possible so as to find another Pokemon.

[MasenkoHA]

And yet I still stayed into and became a bigger fan of anime through their various anime licenses. Hell, my username is a Yuugi-Ou reference. Pokemon and Yuugi-Ou's popularity is a big part of what led to other companies licensing so many other Japanese series and films.

Iirc the success of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z is what convinced Cartoon Network to give more anime (especially ones with darker stories) a chance.

Pokemon was undoubtably ahead in the anime market but it always pretty safe and close to western sensibilities so I can't imagine anyone watching it and being like "Holy shit! This anime shit is crazy!!"

Yu-Gi-Oh! could've been that other anime that was "edgy yet mainstream" but 4kids butchered the hell out of it because they wanted another Pokemon.

The Pokemon cartoon series' production crew was literally forced to make the series easier to ship out to a global market by request of 4Kids. The series was so popular overseas that it was now being made specifically for overseas. Furthermore, again, we all knew that Pokemon was a Japanese cartoon grew up. I was there. I lived. There was no material denial that Pokemon was Japanese among people who watched Japanese cartoons in the US and other licensors hopped into the game of licensing as much Japanese animation as possible so as to find another Pokemon.

Yeah, it wasn't exactly a secret. I was 6-9 in Pokemon's hey day and everyone knew it was a Japanese cartoon.

[sangofe]

Yes, it is the most mainstream. When someone thinks of "anime", they think of "Dragon Ball", the anime where people punch each other, scream a lot, and have yellow hair. No other anime is as iconic and recognizable as Dragon Ball.

By the way, One Piece is not more popular and iconic than Dragon Ball. Dragon Ball Super, a sequel/midquel of the original that, we can all agree, is less iconic than DBZ (since it's been around for only 7 years), overtook One Piece in terms of ratings:

https://www.crunchyroll.com/en-gb/anime ... se-ratings

Here in Norway it's Pokémon that people think of. And they think all anime is like that. Or at least it used up be.

Pokemon's popularity hasn't just made anime in general popular globally it's also made the anime industry stronger by giving animators room to grow.

It also made a lot of people shy away from anime because they were thinking all anime was like Pokémon.

That sounds like a them problem, not a Pokemon problem.

So what?
It's a problem that results in less people trying out manga.

[ATA]

I can only speak for America and within my community (Black man from Baltimore). The eyeball and vocal test always has DBZ, Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Naruto, and Bleach/DeathNote that was the mainstream anime of 90s-2000s. From my experience the other anime were more of "if you know you know". As I always read manga and watched anime since I was 3 but the anime I listed above was especially popular. Hell a lot of people didn't even know Pokemon and DBZ were anime until they was informed. The other anime was looked down upon or liked in secret until the Netflix era started and anime became more accessible and socially acceptable. So if you ask me anime wasn't mainstream really till early-mid 2010s honestly. That's where I noticed more people openly talking about it, more merchandise that wasn't hard to find, and even Sports Twitter making anime references in their tweets(Even though it be forced at times). Beforehand that just wasn't the case for me.

Now this isn't to say there wasn't other anime that occasionally got semi popular (Speed Racer , Akira, etc) but even those seem niche. And niche stuff can still have sections in stores and have reviews but doesn't make it mainstream. It's similar to how certain Ebonics/AAVE has recently became popular and now been mislabeled as "TikTok slang", "Internet Slang", or "Gen Z talk". It been around for decades similar to how anime been cool with some people for decades but now it's mainstream enough to where the average Joe in 2022 might know more anime than the average Joe in 1980s.

If I had to guess if DB the best anime/manga globally I would say yeah. For a lot of folks it was their first, second, or third anime series. At bare minimum DB is top 3 globally. Even before 2013 where DB started releasing new content again, DB managed to get reference in all sorts of media in America despite being an inactive series beyond video games. Hell DBS broke the internet, sold out stadiums for Goku vs Jiren, and broke Pokemon's movie record if I'm not mistaken.

[JulieYBM]

Here in Norway it's Pokémon that people think of. And they think all anime is like that. Or at least it used up be.



It also made a lot of people shy away from anime because they were thinking all anime was like Pokémon.

That sounds like a them problem, not a Pokemon problem.

So what?
It's a problem that results in less people trying out manga.

Because Pokemon did not hurt readership. Furthermore, what few people said "all manga and anime are exactly like Pokemon!" is such a comically low number of people thinking an incredibly illogical thing that nothing would have gotten them into manga or anime in the first place, anyway.

[ATA]

That sounds like a them problem, not a Pokemon problem.

So what?
It's a problem that results in less people trying out manga.

Because Pokemon did not hurt readership. Furthermore, what few people said "all manga and anime are exactly like Pokemon!" is such a comically low number of people thinking an incredibly illogical thing that nothing would have gotten them into manga or anime in the first place, anyway.

I honestly wouldn't call it comically low. As mentioned in my previous post Pokemon was one of few anime that went mainstream. I can't tell you how many people used to say "That Pokemon shit" or "That Pikachu shit" when speaking in a negative tone towards anime. Honestly it was borderline xenophobic at times. Hell as streaming services like Netflix and Hulu made anime more accessible and mainstream, a lot of people admitted they didn't watch anime or they watched it in secret because they thought it was all Pokemon shit. Hell I used to get a lor annoyed when my parents used to call every anime "Goku" "Pokemon" or "Nar-Rew-Do(Naruto)". The negative anime stereotyped we're definitely a thing. I wouldn't call it the vocal minority either. That'd just my experience though. Maybe where you're from it was better received. I'm glad things are way better now. Especially merchandise wise, accessibility wise, and conversation wise.

[JulieYBM]

So what?
It's a problem that results in less people trying out manga.

Because Pokemon did not hurt readership. Furthermore, what few people said "all manga and anime are exactly like Pokemon!" is such a comically low number of people thinking an incredibly illogical thing that nothing would have gotten them into manga or anime in the first place, anyway.

I honestly wouldn't call it comically low. As mentioned in my previous post Pokemon was one of few anime that went mainstream. I can't tell you how many people used to say "That Pokemon shit" or "That Pikachu shit" when speaking in a negative tone towards anime. Honestly it was borderline xenophobic at times. Hell as streaming services like Netflix and Hulu made anime more accessible and mainstream, a lot of people admitted they didn't watch anime or they watched it in secret because they thought it was all Pokemon shit. Hell I used to get a lor annoyed when my parents used to call every anime "Goku" "Pokemon" or "Nar-Rew-Do(Naruto)". The negative anime stereotyped we're definitely a thing. I wouldn't call it the vocal minority either. That'd just my experience though. Maybe where you're from it was better received. I'm glad things are way better now. Especially merchandise wise, accessibility wise, and conversation wise.

Well, yeah, that's why I said that that is a them problem, not a Pokemon problem. If you're going to go into any thing you have no prior experience with an assume it's all like one thing I'm not sure what else to say other than "If you think all cartoons from a single nation are all the same you're an idiot."

A lot of that nonsense is based in prior xenophobia and racism and that is a flaw of the individual human, not one cartoon.

[DBZAOTA482]

And yet I still stayed into and became a bigger fan of anime through their various anime licenses. Hell, my username is a Yuugi-Ou reference. Pokemon and Yuugi-Ou's popularity is a big part of what led to other companies licensing so many other Japanese series and films.

Iirc the success of Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball Z is what convinced Cartoon Network to give more anime (especially ones with darker stories) a chance.

Pokemon was undoubtably ahead in the anime market but it always pretty safe and close to western sensibilities so I can't imagine anyone watching it and being like "Holy shit! This anime shit is crazy!!"

Yu-Gi-Oh! could've been that other anime that was "edgy yet mainstream" but 4kids butchered the hell out of it because they wanted another Pokemon.

The Pokemon cartoon series' production crew was literally forced to make the series easier to ship out to a global market by request of 4Kids. The series was so popular overseas that it was now being made specifically for overseas. Furthermore, again, we all knew that Pokemon was a Japanese cartoon grew up. I was there. I lived. There was no material denial that Pokemon was Japanese among people who watched Japanese cartoons in the US and other licensors hopped into the game of licensing as much Japanese animation as possible so as to find another Pokemon.

I mean I'm not denying that Pokemon has its place in the industry but it's contributions weren't necessarily benefitable to the image of anime. It was a megahit but like I said, seasoned anime fans don't respect it or take it seriously. It's middling success for the past two decades should make this point abundantly clear. Dragon Ball's sustained popularity and influence within the industry by comparison is a testament of its greatness.

I give the Pokemon anime this- the first few seasons are alright, but they're nothing compared to the brilliance of the Saiyan and Namek arcs.

Spoiler:

BTW Pokemon makes most of it's revenue off merchandise. That should tell you what really drives the sales for the franchise.