What would you choose: Good voice acting with bad translation or Bad voice acting with good translation?

[Grimlock]

No I'm not. I'm listening to a horrible actor telling another horrible actor about the time "[he] was inside of [him, and]...left a little something behind".

I assume you're talking about the double meaning that line presents. That used to happen quite often around here too back in the days. And although if/when taken out of context they provide funny moments, it's still true to what happened in-universe. So yes, you are.

I'm wondering "why the H.F.I.L. did they cast a literal child to voice an adult Vegeta?".

And the answer is right there in the comments, you just needed to scroll down a little bit. I don't know if that's true, but either way, this is beyond the point and scope of the topic at hand. Casting kids to voice adults is a bigger problem than just an actor underperforming. This is not a situation for you to criticize the actor, but for you to take it to whoever decided to miscast in the first place, it's their mistake.

And for that matter "why did they cast a woman to voice Korin? And why's she talking so fast?"

I don't know if Karin's gender is known, but I wouldn't oppose to a female cat/Karin. I thought that was pretty cute. If I have something to say, it would be for the voice actress to make her voice a little bit more... I can't remember the word, but to make it sound "more like a cat". It's too human-like. And to talk a little bit slower too, yeah.

The fact that Karin barely appears these days also helps his/her voice not being big deal. But I really like that idea, if Karin is supposed to be male, then Toriyama should retcon that. I don't think we have many female animals that can speak, right?

I'm listening and trying to figure out "what is this voice actor doing?" while a character's supposed to be killing their father.

Okay, that was hilarious... And Awesome! Whatever we can do to make that shitty character even more shitty than he naturally is, I'll take it!

Anyway, yeah, you're seeing a character killing their father, but I doubt you want to feel anything... It's not like in the original he's screaming in a way to make you feel... something. In fact, he's always screaming, so I don't know what you are supposed to feel for this character at all. It's like this one is completely wrong from his very foundation.

At this point, you may as well be watching kindergarteners trying to re-enact Shakespeare.

Well, I grew up watching cartoonish lions reenacting Shakespeare, I doubt I would have problems with kindergarteners. Unless you mean... kindergarteners reenacting not in an official play/film or something? Which would be an odd thing to compare, these situations are completely different.


(Something very important: sometimes a bad voice acting is not a problem of the voice actors, but from the dubbing director, who should be... directing the voice actors better. Dubbing director is the one responsible for how the lines are delivered. You all should keep this mind. It's quite often that voice actors (beginners to regulars, mostly) give their best, but may still underperform, that usually happens when they were badly directed).

I'm not sure what you mean by "fake drama."

Real drama )--> kid loses his father, uncle appears and tells him to run away and never come back.
Fake drama )--> kid loses his father, uncle appears and tells him to run away under a made up excuse (go find your peace/honor/a way to get over it/something and don't come back until you do; your staying shall bring calamity to our people; etc).

(Above example when adding something that isn't there originally).

Real drama )--> kid avoids the destruction of his planet and loses his parents, by being sent to another planet to conquer it.
Fake drama )--> kid avoids the destruction of his planet and loses his parents, by being sent to another planet by his parents.

(Above example when changing or adapting the script differently from the original).

The drama is there but it's fake, not real. Not the kind of drama the original version wanted you to experience. Don't get mad, I'm just joking with the examples! Hehehe! =P

I get what you mean by a bad script impeding authorial intent, but Fio made a pretty apt analogy by saying it's like watching kids enact Shakespeare. The story still exists but the emotion is gone.

But if I already know the emotion is gone, and I want to experience emotion, why would I watch kids reenact Shakesspeare in the first place? Wouldn't I know beforehand that work is not for me? Also, what are the circumstances here? Are the kids actors or not? Are they in a play or a movie? One needs to have some context. Maybe I won't have the original meaning Shakespeare wanted me to have, but maybe that's because the work I'm going to see, although based on Shakespeare, is intentionally different.

There is a difference between official entities doing something, and regular citizens doing something. Who are these kids/kindergarteners you're talking about? I can't make heads or tails what this "Shakespeare" thing is supposed to mean.

[ABED]

The drama is there but it's fake, not real. Not the kind of drama the original version wanted you to experience. Don't get mad, I'm just joking with the examples! Hehehe! =P

Drama is drama whether it's the original version or not. If it works for you, it works for you. And technically it's all fake.

Dunno what to say about the little kids doing Shakespear example other than it feels like you are overthinking the analogy.

I've exhausted what I have to bring to this topic, so I'll bottom line this - remember folks, 1) This is all hypothetical, and 2) it's subjective

[Fionordequester]

I assume you're talking about the double meaning that line presents. That used to happen quite often around here too back in the days. And although if/when taken out of context they provide funny moments, it's still true to what happened in-universe. So yes, you are.

No I'm not—because the intended emotion isn't there.

The underlying problem was that the lines were badly delivered. Compare this same scene in its original Japanese. See the comments there (where people are talking about how much fear and despair they felt watching this scene)—then compare them to the comments on the Blue Water video (where many people are cracking jokes about the dialogue).

The dialogue itself is mostly the same (I'm assuming)... But Trunk's actor delivers his cries with actual emotion, and Bebi's voice is cold, creepy, and sociopathic enough to make your skin crawl. Blue Water's VA sounds like some college kid walked in, did a growly voice he could barely maintain (let alone act with), and read a script with no direction. So all you're left with is "Tee hee, he said 'inside of you'".

It's kind of like a lot of the subtext surrounding Semi-Perfect Cell, and how he really wanted to absorb Android #18. Dameon Clarke & Norio Wakamoto read their lines with enough malice and conviction to make their scenes scary instead of silly. Does that make sense?

Casting kids to voice adults is a bigger problem than just an actor underperforming. This is not a situation for you to criticize the actor, but for you to take it to whoever decided to miscast in the first place, it's their mistake.

I disagree. "Bad voice acting", to me, is when a performance is completely unsuited to the character. For example, Linda Young as Freeza. Her chain-smoking grandma voice was about as bad of a portrayal as Freeza could have gotten.

I don't know if Karin's gender is known, but I wouldn't oppose to a female cat/Karin. I thought that was pretty cute...I really like that idea, if Karin is supposed to be male, then Toriyama should retcon that. I don't think we have many female animals that can speak, right?

Thinking it over, I actually do agree. A female Karin wouldn't have been so bad at all.

Anyway, yeah, you're seeing a character killing their father, but I doubt you want to feel anything... It's not like in the original he's screaming in a way to make you feel... something. In fact, he's always screaming, so I don't know what you are supposed to feel for this character at all. It's like this one is completely wrong from his very foundation.

I feel like the music is somber enough that you're supposed to feel a touch of pity for their situation. Paragus is someone who used to genuinely love his son... But then degenerated due to his situation, his fear, and his lust for power.

Broly was someone who used to have at least some fondness for his Dad... But was then driven to insanity by his own power, his stabbing as a baby, and his own father betraying him. Thus this horrible situation where a father leaves his son to die, only to be slain by him.

Unless you mean... kindergarteners re-enacting not in an official play/film or something?[/url]

That's exactly what I meant, yes. A group of folks cannot bring a story to life without appropriate talent, training, and emotional investment. Your average school play does not have any of those three things

[Majin Buu]

The question is two what if scenarios concerning the dub. Unless I'm wrong, this isn't about the subtitle track.

I know that, I was stating my approach to such a choice- neither.

Ideally the voice acting and translation should both be good in a dub, so if either is bad then I simply don't bother with the dub and switch to the Japanese version, hoping the subs are accurate. I'm not a dub only person so both scenarios would make me pass on the dub entirely.

[Anonymous Friend]

This is like asking if I want a terribly written song sung beautifully, or a well written sung song horribly.

Our entertainment should not make us want to rip our ears out.

Either scenario can make someone want to rip their ears out.

Name one beautifully sung song that made you want to rip your ears out?

[Soppa Saia People]

Any of the well written Smashing Pumpkins songs.

[Fionordequester]

This is like asking if I want a terribly written song sung beautifully, or a well written sung song horribly.

Our entertainment should not make us want to rip our ears out.

I feel like this sums everything up. I might feel different if there was no Japanese version to go to... But there is. It will always be there for me, so long as I get the subtitles to go alone with it.

[Grimlock]

No I'm not—because the intended emotion isn't there.

The underlying problem was that the lines were badly delivered. Compare this same scene in its original Japanese. See the comments there (where people are talking about how much fear and despair they felt watching this scene)—then compare them to the comments on the Blue Water video (where many people are cracking jokes about the dialogue).

The dialogue itself is mostly the same (I'm assuming)... But Trunk's actor delivers his cries with actual emotion, and Bebi's voice is cold, creepy, and sociopathic enough to make your skin crawl. Blue Water's VA sounds like some college kid walked in, did a growly voice he could barely maintain (let alone act with), and read a script with no direction. So all you're left with is "Tee hee, he said 'inside of you'".

But that's not what you're disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing that you are getting the real meaning, which is what I said. I said you'd at least be getting the real meaning with a good translation, and well, would you look at that... Thanks to the Japanese version you posted, you've just proved I'm right.

Yes, what was said in that English dub and what was said in the Japanese version (I understand Portuguese) is pretty much the same. So you're not being fooled, you can have nice conversations about that situation without any misconceptions. You can use both videos as sources if someone asks you for evidence if you want to. Or... You can stay here saying how bad the voice acting was in that scene.

I disagree. "Bad voice acting", to me, is when a performance is completely unsuited to the character. For example, Linda Young as Freeza. Her chain-smoking grandma voice was about as bad of a portrayal as Freeza could have gotten.

I won't delve much into this because this is indeed another complicated issue to tackle. There are occasions in which I believe it's possible that a miscast situation can be separated from a good or bad voice acting in itself, and there are occasions in which I believe it's not possible.

Linda Young as Freeza was definitely a miscast, and in her case, I will agree that it was a bad voice acting but not for that reason, but because I think she failed to capture some of "Freeza's nuances and mannerisms" (from the little I've heard of her). If she had captured those, it would be a miscast due to the "grandma voice" that I agree with, but I would not be able to say she underperformed, that she was bad at voicing Freeza. She could have made an excellent job even if her voice didn't fit the character (needless to say, the inverse is also true. It's possible to make a terrible job even if their voice fit the character).

This is a whole other can of worms, maybe even worth of a thread of its own for another day.

I feel like the music is somber enough that you're supposed to feel a touch of pity for their situation. Paragus is someone who used to genuinely love his son... But then degenerated due to his situation, his fear, and his lust for power.

Broly was someone who used to have at least some fondness for his Dad... But was then driven to insanity by his own power, his stabbing as a baby, and his own father betraying him. Thus this horrible situation where a father leaves his son to die, only to be slain by him.

Well, it's also known that English dub changes the music. So I don't know if in that video you posted plays the original music or something else. But be that as it may, if you can feel something for the situation itself (not necessarily for the characters), then I guess it's something already. It's always bad a father-killing-son and vice-versa scenario, but the dramatic impact can vary for a lot of reasons. As I have never felt anything for Broly, I can't really make a proper comment on his case.

[Fionordequester]

But that's not what you're disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing that you are getting the real meaning, which is what I said. I said you'd at least be getting the real meaning with a good translation, and well, would you look at that... Thanks to the Japanese version you posted, you've just proved I'm right.

Words only account for about 7% of human communication. 55% comes from body language (the animation), and the other 38% comes from the vocals. You lose more nuance with mismatched vocals than you do with mismatched dialogue.

EDIT: Note that I am NOT saying that your job as a translator isn't important. I'm arguing only from a "pick your poison" perspective.

I won't delve much into this because this is...a whole other can of worms, maybe even worth of a thread of its own for another day.

Fair enough.

Well, it's also known that English dub changes the music...But be that as it may... It's always bad a father-killing-son and vice-versa scenario, but the dramatic impact can vary for a lot of reasons. As I have never felt anything for Broly, I can't really make a proper comment...

This isn't the FUNimation dub—it's the Big Green dub by the AB Groupe. Those guys, for all their other faults, always kept the original music. The rest of your point is fair enough.

[Super Sonic]

The title sounds like it would fit with the BOTP and G-Force adaptations of Gatchaman. The latter is truer to Gatchaman but from what I heard was more of a rushed dub and done more cheap, whereas the former had big names like Casey Kasem and Janet Waldo doing well, but took many liberties in addition to being more censored.

[Civic]

Good voice acting with bad translation. Better to have an entertaining but inaccurate product, rather than an accurate but unenjoyable one.

[SuperSunnyDee]

Good acting with bad translations. Because the screen shots will undoubtedly make great meme material.

Okay but seriously I do think I’d be entertained with a well acted show if it’s ridiculous or has things I know are totally off. A poorly acted accurate translation will probably just make me wince thinking about how hard everyone is trying and nothing is coming together lol.