How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
We know Roshi is close enough that he can mimick a very rudimentary version of it, but how close is he and the others to actually achieving it?
Roshi seems to have the mental aspect down, which means there's likely a minimum battle power needed to engage in it. Considering Kuririn and Tenshinhan are likely stronger than him, how close are they instead?
Roshi seems to have the mental aspect down, which means there's likely a minimum battle power needed to engage in it. Considering Kuririn and Tenshinhan are likely stronger than him, how close are they instead?
-
- I Live Here
- Posts: 2218
- Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm
- Location: The Planes of Lexington
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
Pretty far away. Goku didn't exactly learn UI through simple training. He first needed to undergo a ritual to harness the power of the Gods and spent a few years fine-tuning his control over God Ki through a couple transformations and an improved state. Next, Goku required motivation by Roshi to transform into the technique of the Gods and had to rely on desperation in the moment to temporarily achieve the perfected form. Then, Goku had to train with an Angel for a few months to easily enter in and out of UI Sign at will and a critical push to ensure that he could use Perfected UI whenever, at the cost of his stamina. Finally, it took the memory of his parents and learning to make UI not reliant on being a transformation for Goku to make the most of his raw power while at the same time, utilizing the technique to it's best.
The other members of the Z Senshi haven't taken any of these steps so it's not likely that we'll be seeing a Krillin or Tenshinhan with silver eyes anytime soon.
The other members of the Z Senshi haven't taken any of these steps so it's not likely that we'll be seeing a Krillin or Tenshinhan with silver eyes anytime soon.
"Why is a raven like a writing desk?" - The Mad Hatter
- GreatSaiyaman123
- I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
- Posts: 1731
- Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:59 am
- Location: Somewhere beyond the sea
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
I don’t think they’re even close to scrapping the bottom of it at all. Take a look at the people who actually understand it:
Angels: Self explanatory.
Beerus: 75 years million old and arguably the strongest god.
Roshi: 300 years old martial arts sage/hermit.
Goku: Also self explanatory.
It’s a godly technique, so I think godly power is required. Roshi is just too weak, but as you said he’s got the spirit of it. Beerus is almost the opposite; he’s got some of the mind (or lack thereof) of course, but it’s mostly because he’s so strong. If he weren’t so focused on destruction (as he tells Vegeta) he probably would’ve mastered UI too. Goku is the single greatest martial artist to have ever lived, and even he needed a couple years of training from Whis
So back to Kuririn and Tien. They’re pitifully weak, closer to Roshi’s level than to Goku’s. Kuririn is retired, and it’s possible so is Tien: The anime pushes him as a teacher, but the Cell Saga had him quit serious training after admitting he could never catch up to Goku, and AT himself says he’s more of a farmer now. Tenshinhan might have tried it after the ToP, he’s got more martial arts spirit than Kuririn, so I think he’s closer despite being weaker. Still pretty far from even Roshi’s mindset though.
Angels: Self explanatory.
Beerus: 75 years million old and arguably the strongest god.
Roshi: 300 years old martial arts sage/hermit.
Goku: Also self explanatory.
It’s a godly technique, so I think godly power is required. Roshi is just too weak, but as you said he’s got the spirit of it. Beerus is almost the opposite; he’s got some of the mind (or lack thereof) of course, but it’s mostly because he’s so strong. If he weren’t so focused on destruction (as he tells Vegeta) he probably would’ve mastered UI too. Goku is the single greatest martial artist to have ever lived, and even he needed a couple years of training from Whis
So back to Kuririn and Tien. They’re pitifully weak, closer to Roshi’s level than to Goku’s. Kuririn is retired, and it’s possible so is Tien: The anime pushes him as a teacher, but the Cell Saga had him quit serious training after admitting he could never catch up to Goku, and AT himself says he’s more of a farmer now. Tenshinhan might have tried it after the ToP, he’s got more martial arts spirit than Kuririn, so I think he’s closer despite being weaker. Still pretty far from even Roshi’s mindset though.
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
Three out of the four core original human fighters (Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu) did undergo the training regimens and presumably grasped the tenets of three of the divine teachers Goku studied under (Karin, Kami, and King Kai). In fact some of them trained longer under King Kai than Goku did. They may be argued as having the foundation for attaining Ultra Instinct. In comparison to others like Beerus and obviously Goku their understanding is meagre but at least in comparison to Roshi's imitation I think the likes of Tenshinhan, who is consistently training, would have his own means of pursuing it through the teachers he studied under. Keep in mind that Tenshinhan was hailed as a prodigy in his own right back during the 22nd and 23rd tournaments; not on the level of Goku, perhaps, but someone advanced in his own right.
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
They have the principle for it, but as for attaining it, that's another thing. When Roshi pulled a mini version of it, he made Goku recollect the teachers he has had, which as Lionel pointed out, trained the other Earthlings too. UI is a little different since it's a more mastered version of "not using your eyes" ability, since the body is so accostumed to the movements it kind of moves on its own. It ain't something the fighter needs any thinking in applying.
It's just hard for me to swallow Goku wondering if Beers had eyes on his back once he dodged the other Gods' attacks and having to be remembered by Roshi of the teaching he had, with Goku saying he was a student that never listened, the contrary of what Roshi said when seeing Goku at the Budokais. It's just hard to get around to.
It's just hard for me to swallow Goku wondering if Beers had eyes on his back once he dodged the other Gods' attacks and having to be remembered by Roshi of the teaching he had, with Goku saying he was a student that never listened, the contrary of what Roshi said when seeing Goku at the Budokais. It's just hard to get around to.
-
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 209
- Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2020 3:25 pm
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
You forgot that the current humans are all prodigy who can learn techniques that took roshi years in minutes/days.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 1:29 pm I don’t think they’re even close to scrapping the bottom of it at all. Take a look at the people who actually understand it:
Angels: Self explanatory.
Beerus: 75 years million old and arguably the strongest god.
Roshi: 300 years old martial arts sage/hermit.
Goku: Also self explanatory.
It’s a godly technique, so I think godly power is required. Roshi is just too weak, but as you said he’s got the spirit of it. Beerus is almost the opposite; he’s got some of the mind (or lack thereof) of course, but it’s mostly because he’s so strong. If he weren’t so focused on destruction (as he tells Vegeta) he probably would’ve mastered UI too. Goku is the single greatest martial artist to have ever lived, and even he needed a couple years of training from Whis
So back to Kuririn and Tien. They’re pitifully weak, closer to Roshi’s level than to Goku’s. Kuririn is retired, and it’s possible so is Tien: The anime pushes him as a teacher, but the Cell Saga had him quit serious training after admitting he could never catch up to Goku, and AT himself says he’s more of a farmer now. Tenshinhan might have tried it after the ToP, he’s got more martial arts spirit than Kuririn, so I think he’s closer despite being weaker. Still pretty far from even Roshi’s mindset though.
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
Is it correct to assume nobody can achieve it without god ki? let alone master it.Yuji wrote: ↑Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:03 am We know Roshi is close enough that he can mimick a very rudimentary version of it, but how close is he and the others to actually achieving it?
Roshi seems to have the mental aspect down, which means there's likely a minimum battle power needed to engage in it. Considering Kuririn and Tenshinhan are likely stronger than him, how close are they instead?
Seekeroftruth wrote: ↑Wed Feb 15, 2023 7:20 am
You forgot that the current humans are all prodigy who can learn techniques that took roshi years in minutes/days.
Heh this is always circumstantial. It depends on if the story wants them to be competent or not.
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
If the series was fair with its powerups, or just want to give some kind of subversion, Tenshinhan would be the closest. He may not have Master Roshi's centuries of experience, but his constant training should allow him to find an alternate path to power.
Re: How close are the humans to Ultra Instinct?
I don't think they are that far from the bootleg UI Roshi had. With the correct guidance I reckon they could do it too, eventually. One visit to the ROSAT should at least get them close enough. Roshi got there on his own.
Tenshinhan is probably the best candidate, he is the best when it comes to controlling his emotions (although, Roshi practices the technique and he never seemed to be able to control himself, lol).
Piccolo could probably get the hang of it, too, sooner than later. He might even be a better candidate than Tenshinhan.
Krilin was a monk, but he always had problems managing his emotions. I think he'd have the hardest time, but he'll get there at some point, he's a hard worker.
Yamcha, nah. I don't think he has the discipline required for this.
It would be a nice way to keep them relevant, but I don't think that's necessary, they are retired and they have been replaced already.
Tenshinhan is probably the best candidate, he is the best when it comes to controlling his emotions (although, Roshi practices the technique and he never seemed to be able to control himself, lol).
Piccolo could probably get the hang of it, too, sooner than later. He might even be a better candidate than Tenshinhan.
Krilin was a monk, but he always had problems managing his emotions. I think he'd have the hardest time, but he'll get there at some point, he's a hard worker.
Yamcha, nah. I don't think he has the discipline required for this.
It would be a nice way to keep them relevant, but I don't think that's necessary, they are retired and they have been replaced already.