Shorty GZ2 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 21, 2023 10:03 am
LoganForkHands73 wrote: ↑Mon Feb 20, 2023 9:45 am
There are certainly ways of rationalising around the meditation scene that are valid, but I think the sloppy presentation is the main issue. I like when Goku gets to act dumb and goofy about stuff outside of training, but one of the quiet pleasures of genre fiction is seeing a protagonist who is intelligent and competent at the specific thing they do, which is usually the centrepiece of the story and setting. If Goku is presented as a clueless dolt even in the one area he’s supposed to specialise in (he may not be against meditation per se, but the fact that he acts all bewildered by it and needs a lecture from Whis certainly creates that effect), that’s going too far in my opinion. Imagine if Poirot was suddenly confused by basic deductive techniques while investigating a murder, or Blackjack forgot how to do surgery without explanation. What would be the point of these characters if they lost their skills at their jobs? Now, I don’t think Goku is suddenly gonna lose his competence at fighting, but the fact that he is this strategic genius in all areas of martial arts is key to his character and makes him enjoyable to see in action, and this scene completely undermines that. It doesn’t help that the following training battle scene also shows Goku as a hotheaded, pratfalling brute compared to the calm and collected Vegeta.
Image related:
This is what it says in the subs:
Goku: Hey, cut it out! If you sit still so long, you're gonna get rusty! The world is full of guys like Jiren, and Broly here and loads of other amazin' folks!
Vegeta: Shut up and don't interfere. This is training too.
Goku: You fibber! No way is that a form of trainin'!
Vegeta: You just don't get it.
Goku: What's to get?
Vegeta: Jiren was so overwhelmingly strong. And yet, his power really wasn't so different from our own.
Goku: Huh?
Vegeta: But he used his power with total efficiency. Didn't you notice? Even in the midst of battle, his body and spirit were both fully relaxed until the moment he struck.
Goku: Really?
Vegeta: Such an attack from nowhere can't be predicted by the enemy, and packs a tremendous punch. What's more, it allows one to conserve stamina.
Goku: Maybe so...
Vegeta: Jiren probably achieved it by instinct. So since I can't manage it myself, I'm starting out with mental training.
Whis: Ding ding ding! Outstanding! Truly outstanding, Vegeta-san! I'm impressed you've realized that.
You are absolutely correct! It's not training to simply beef up your body like an idiot.
[hr] (it is supposed to be a line)
That whole conversation contradicts Goku meditating with Kami. It contradicts him meditating in the ROSAT during the Cell Saga, Otherworld during the Buu Saga and DBS.
Vegeta was doing standing meditation in the Cell Saga, which Goku calls him a genius.
Goku unlocked SSJ Grade 2 and 3 with meditation. He unlocked True Ultra Instincts with meditation also.
Goku has patient to wait, seeing that he allowed Vegeta and Trunks to train first. He didn't budge in and interrupt their training.
Toei are so obsessed in making Goku dumb, they don't stop and think if it is good or if that contradicts anything. No they have to make Goku into a total idiot.
This is smart Goku:
https://youtu.be/q3amWxZr-3w