Fans from Spain insist the Japanese Version is a dub.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I wont add links to avoid the drama but I will provide it if asked. Mario Castañeda got tangled up in some minor drama when he insisted the original Japanese version is not a dub to some really persistent fans from Spain. I think Mario is not only right but feel it is prime time to stop misinformation and to start calling things by their correct name.

[VegettoEX]

I don't know (or particularly care to know) what the exact situation is here with Castañeda, but this topic certainly pops up from time to time.

There's an extremely pedantic argument to be made -- more so than is actually worth doing -- that since the animation is (usually) present in a final (or near-final) state when the Japanese voice actors perform their lines, they are "dubbing" to the footage.

(This is opposed to the voice performance coming first and it being animated to, such as was the case with, say, the Akira theatrical film.)

What's actually happening in situations like this is that the foreign language actors and their overly-enthusiastic/attached fanbase(s) are trying to throw the term "dub" -- sometimes used as a pejorative to infer "lesser" (or at least "came later / not original") -- back at the actual original language, bringing it "down" to their level, in order to criticize it more freely.

It's pretty transparent and childish all around, and I would advise just not playing the game at all.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I don't know (or particularly care to know) what the exact situation is here with Castañeda, but this topic certainly pops up from time to time.

There's an extremely pedantic argument to be made -- more so than is actually worth doing -- that since the animation is (usually) present in a final (or near-final) state when the Japanese voice actors perform their lines, they are "dubbing" to the footage.

(This is opposed to the voice performance coming first and it being animated to, such as was the case with, say, the Akira theatrical film.)

What's actually happening in situations like this is that the foreign language actors and their overly-enthusiastic/attached fanbase(s) are trying to throw the term "dub" -- sometimes used as a pejorative to infer "lesser" (or at least "came later / not original") -- back at the actual original language, bringing it "down" to their level, in order to criticize it more freely.

It's pretty transparent and childish all around, and I would advise just not playing the game at all.

That's why I was careful not to add links or enable them by saying anything to them. I think Dubbing is great,I LOVE dubbing, but trying to needlessly "bring down the original version" like they are doing is silly and pointless not to mention disrectpectful to everyone involved.

BTW the forum logged me out and I got super scared for a second and thought I got banned AGAIN. Thank god I didnt get banned. Hahahaha...awwwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

[MisteryOne]

Are you by chance mixing up Spain's fanbase with the Latin American one? Mario Castañeda is not Goku's voice here in Spain. Just wanted to point that out.

It's an extremely dumb point either way so I don't feel like there is much to say about the matter tbh. This fandom never ceases to badly surprise me, but I guess the larger the fandom, the more arguments like these you will see.

[Cure Dragon 255]

No I meant exactly what I said. Fans from Spain came to respond to Mario Castañeda, the Mexican voice for Goku, who has been a dub actor longer that he has even been Goku, even more time than these people probably been alive, came to tell him he doesnt know what a dub or a dub actor is.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

It's an extremely dumb point either way so I don't feel like there is much to say about the matter tbh.

It's dumb because it invalidates the concept of a dub by treating it as an inferior product, whereas a healthy fandom would treat a dub as what it is, an alternate way of watching a show, movie, whatever, not as a replacement for the Japanese version but a supplement to it. Not being the original recording does not make a particular version of a show any less of a work of art. There's still a lot of work put in by actors, engineers, ADR directors, etc, who all deserve respect for their crafts, just as the Japanese cast and recording crew do.

I would argue because dubbing requires animation already produced that it is a different kind of art with its own unique skillset, things like matching mouth flaps while also delivering a believable performance is something I give actors credit for being able to do, because its not easy.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Yeah, I am totes staunchily mega pro dub but Latin America is a region where dubbing is a very respected practice. And I think the Latin American dub of Dragon Ball excelled at being utmostly respectful to the original Japanese version. I think dubbing is at its best when it succeeds in respecting the original and bringing the work to a whole new audience. However I am just as totes staunchily mega pro sub as well. Subs are also very important.

[MisteryOne]

No I meant exactly what I said. Fans from Spain came to respond to Mario Castañeda, the Mexican voice for Goku, who has been a dub actor longer that he has even been Goku, even more time than these people probably been alive, came to tell him he doesnt know what a dub or a dub actor is.

That's...wtf, really. I stand corrected then. I think it's almost a good thing I didn't learn of this until know. We already have a bad enough reputation because of a certain artist. But alas, disappointed but not surprised. It's pretty egregious too since I would argue that dubbing is taking more seriously by people in general in Latin America than here...

It's an extremely dumb point either way so I don't feel like there is much to say about the matter tbh.

It's dumb because it invalidates the concept of a dub by treating it as an inferior product, whereas a healthy fandom would treat a dub as what it is, an alternate way of watching a show, movie, whatever, not as a replacement for the Japanese version but a supplement to it. Not being the original recording does not make a particular version of a show any less of a work of art. There's still a lot of work put in by actors, engineers, ADR directors, etc, who all deserve respect for their crafts, just as the Japanese cast and recording crew do.

I would argue because dubbing requires animation already produced that it is a different kind of art with its own unique skillset, things like matching mouth flaps while also delivering a believable performance is something I give actors credit for being able to do, because its not easy.

This is indeed a great point. The concept of a dub necessary being a bad thing is flawed to begin with, it just needs different abilities from different kind of people. Both the original seiyuus and dub actors deserve respect even if you prefer to consume the content one way or another.

[coola]

If i remember correctly, in shows like Batman TAS, they first record lines, and then did animation. Kaiser even mentioned matching dialogue to moving lips is real pain. And in parody you can at least adjust lips, but not in official dub...

[M16U3L2015]

If i remember correctly, in shows like Batman TAS, they first record lines, and then did animation.

Actually, in the West that is the standard way of producing animation, first the dialogue is recorded and then the animation is synchronized with that dialogue.

In anime it's the opposite, first the animation is produced and then the dialogue is recorded. There are exceptions such as in the movie Akira, where the dialogue was recorded first.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

If i remember correctly, in shows like Batman TAS, they first record lines, and then did animation.

Actually, in the West that is the standard way of producing animation, first the dialogue is recorded and then the animation is synchronized with that dialogue.

In anime it's the opposite, first the animation is produced and then the dialogue is recorded. There are exceptions such as in the movie Akira, where the dialogue was recorded first.

Interesting word from Justin Sevakis here on the matter. Turns out the Japanese voices are to put to animation mostly done (like storyboards or in the case of Dragon Ball animatics) largely for economic (low budgets) and efficient reasons (tight deadlines), so an argument could be made the Japanese versions are a "dub" of sorts, even if they doesn't fit the conventionally understood meaning of the word.

Nonetheless, I should make it clear I'm not saying the version with the Japanese voices is in every way the same as an international dub. Ill concede as Cure Dragon 255 has done, yes, subs are crucially important too. Why wouldn't they be. The dub was never going to be a replacement.

The Japanese, from my understanding (though I could be wrong) requires further completed animation, like the absolute last drafts. But again we don't need to nitpick that "well yeah the Japanese mostly have the storyboards and animatics sorted with the dialogue in mind, foreign dubs have the whole shebang" point will always be the same, let's get over it and enjoy what we enjoy.

Some like the Japanese, others like their dubs, many more in this day and age also like both, I do in fact, it all depends on my mood but I embrace seeing different takes on the characters in both the original, intended language and the one I'm most used to (English).

[Cure Dragon 255]

I love you a lot Dragon Ball Ireland but dubbing is not just "Putting the voices to finished animation" its genuinely replacing them.

From Wikipedia.

Outside the film industry, the term "dubbing" commonly refers to the replacement of the actor's voices with those of different performers speaking another language, which is called "revoicing" in the film industry.[1][further explanation needed] The term "dubbing" is only used when talking about replacing a previous voice, usually in another language. When a voice is created from scratch for animations, the term "original voice" is always used because, in some cases, this media is partially finished before the voice is implemented. The voice work would still be part of the creation process, thus being considered the official voice