Do you like Super?

[novashibe]

It certainly has it's moments. I think the main premise of the Zamasu arc had a lot of potential - hell, most of the show 'had potential' insofar as tournament arcs can be done well as the franchise has proven already, and going back to some more slice-of-life situations for a chance at some Toriyama-style comedy held a lot of promise also. There are a few reasons the show not only fails to live up to that potential but by design, can't.

I think the single biggest problem with the series is the regression of almost every single character to some specific point in their existing development. This is hardly a new criticism, I know, but it is so pervasive throughout the entire show that it drags everything down with it and is impossible not to mention. These are flanderized versions of the people we know, taken back in time to a point where their character arc was still incomplete for the purpose of appealing to people's nostalgia and ostensibly allowing for further growth. That growth never comes though and what we're left with are weird amalgamations, cartoon characters if you like, and how do you feel any attachment to a story where the characters now feel like completely different people? The occasional moments that do shine through tend to tug more at some attachment to the series and your memory of it than actually creating new ones - the Muten Roshi moment in the Universe Survival arc for instance. It's great, but only because it is forcefully reminding you that these are the same characters and you remember that time they met and grew together in a better series. It just feels extremely fake and unearned.

In terms of the manga it suffers from only some of the same problems, but also has new problems of it's own. The characters feel more consistent with where they should be development-wise (for the most part, some weird exceptions aside) and the tone is pretty spot-on, but the barebones stories of the tournament arc still really show and the manga-only content, while pretty good on paper, didn't feel as well-executed as it could have been and feels removed from the rest of the franchise in a weird way. Maybe this is just external context rubbing against my opinion of it as it does seem for all intents and purposes to be treated as a spin-off manga, but who knows?

Honestly the only highlights of the Dragon Ball Revival have been the films, for me. A few bright spots here and there in both Super stories, but on the whole... No.

[sunsetshimmer]

No. While manga (at least until Moro) was pretty decent at times, anime was almost entirely unbearable to me and i would probably never watch ToP arc if it wasn't for polish dub, as i watched entire DBS again in TV to support franchise in our country. I mean it was the first time any arc in DB was so bad i couldn't even finish watching it. I somehow managed to finish Zamasu arc, but ToP was just too much. I liked Kefla though and Ribrianne was pretty funny, but that's it.

I liked Super Hero though. It was the first time since Battle of Gods movie i actually enjoyed watching DB. Cell Max and Gohan Beast are laughable bad and cheap, but story and characters were actually really good. It was also the first movie since "Wrath of the dragon" that was aired in polish cinemas and got official translation.

[Venus]

Honestly at first I was super excited but the more it went on I was losing the hype because of the combination of many factors such as horrible writting decisions, bad animation etc, the good moments however, I like them.

Truth be told Super made me appreciate and like GT much more than I used to in the past, a shame it was only 64 episodes long.

[super michael]

Honestly at first I was super excited but the more it went on I was losing the hype because of the combination of many factors such as horrible writting decisions, bad animation etc, the good moments however, I like them.

Truth be told Super made me appreciate and like GT much more than I used to in the past, a shame it was only 64 episodes long.

That is how I felt about DBS anime.
DBS had the potential to greatly surpass DB with new technology and new ideas, but there was too many horrible decision and horrible writing.
Sometimes the animation was bad along with the art style.


I got sick and tired of seeing Goku in DBS, due to how bad he was written. He is the main character, yet he was terrible.

As for how Goten, Trunks and Buu were written, it was horrible. Same applies with Chi Chi.


Many anime has surpassed DB, while DBS is inferior compared to DB.

[Zephyr]

Talking about "Super" as a whole (and including the "Z" movies Battle of Gods and Resurrection F), yeah I like it. Episode 110 and 131 remain the most engrossed I've been watching something Dragon Ball related since I was 11 years old watching DBZ's climax and ending for the first time.

Super has done for Freeza what would have arguably been a very organic thing to do for him during the original story: have him join Goku's cadre of enemies turned martial arts rivals. Resurrection F brought him back to life and finally got him motivated to begin truly cultivating further strength. And while he died at the end, the Universal Survival arc had him continue his training in Hell, and gave him some incredible chemistry with Goku, culminating in their team up at the arc's climax. The arc ends with him returning to life once again, and since then he's continued his training. He's now at a point where he doesn't seem chiefly preoccupied with killing Goku, and won't simply blow the planet up if he starts losing. We may very well be on track to Neko Majin happening, which is a very fun idea!

Beerus, Hit, Caulifla, Geran, and Broli are also nice additions to this group of enemies turned rivals, and I look forward to their possible future interactions with one another and the rest of the core group of martial artists in future conflicts and/or tournament settings.

While some of the new transformations were rather underwhelming to me (God, Blue, Golden/Black Freeza), some have also proven to be silly and/or cool (Ultra Instinct, Ultra Ego, Orange Piccolo, Beast Gohan). The Future Trunks arc was fun from beginning to end, and I loved the stupid soundtrack in the Broly movie. Limit Break X Survivor and Ultimate Battle still slap, even with how overplayed the latter ended up being.

Super sure ain't perfect, though. The Tournament of Power was indeed a slog, as were the two movie retellings at the beginning of the TV anime. Chozetsu Dynamic and the background music for the first three arcs of the TV anime and for Super Hero were also extremely bland to me. The Broly movie was the only time I didn't hate the anime's visual direction in some way. And, aside from the very brief Dai Kaioshin, Oob, and Freeza stuff, I've found Toyble's manga arcs that aren't adapting existing material to be pretty tedious and unremarkable.

[Kendamu]

Yes.

Okay, I need to say more than one word so here's one reason I enjoy Super: The (adult) Saiyans of Universe 7 are all doing new and different things and taking their own paths and coming up with their own ways of doing things.

Before, it was too simple! Super Saiyan 3 is stronger than Super Saiyan 2 so, retrospectively, Goku could've totally beaten Vegeta in the Boo Arc. Now, Goku has Ultra Instinct, Vegeta has Ultra Ego, and now there's Beast Gohan and Orange Piccolo! Also, Broly comes with his own form of Super Saiyan!! So, everyone is (mostly!) on equal footing in different ways right now. I like that way better because fights will be a lot more interesting than "3 > 2."

Other than that, the answer is just "yes" because I'm not overthinking the nostalgia cash-grab. I'm just enjoying the ride until I feel like getting off.

[Shinsa]

From the anime only. No not at all.

I've been overly harsh on the anime but I feel it's creatively bankrupt with the whole show having pretty terrible writing, pacing and in my opinion ruins a lot of lore/characters.
That said tho...once I initially watched and not liking the anime when it first aired I re-watched it dubbed when it was released on bluray for the west. With my initial opinion already set in stone I was able to turn off my brain, re-think some things and somewhat enjoy it for what it is...specially some scenes that were animated well or some funny slice of life stuff.
Also I've enjoyed both Broly and Super hero movies but mostly enjoy seeing them with my nephew and the others around me that can enjoy/love Super a whole lot more then I do. Sadly for me it is what it is but I will always enjoy going into a theatre for the new DB film with a huge crowd cheering.

I know there is the manga but I can't bring myself to read it...but maybe I should?

[Cursed Lemon]

Predicated on the idea that we cut out the movie retellings and completely ignore them forever...it's alright.

There are some moments with great animation - I will never get over Goku casually roundhousing Jiren - and the Zamasu arc is a good piece of DB lore albeit with some really weird moments, e.g. why the hell did they fight Goku Black twice and get their asses kicked twice. Given that I never want to see another tournament arc in any anime ever again, that leaves very little of the actual Super anime that's available for me to watch. The Zamasu arc, while a compelling plot, doesn't quite hit the spot when it comes to combat. That's why I thank the lord for Super Broly.

[super michael]

If one needs to switch their brains of and not think to enjoy DBS anime, that means it isn't good.

DBS anime is full of contradiction, bad writing, forced gags when it doesn't make sense, bad gags, hyping characters to be a huge let down, etc.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

If one needs to switch their brains of and not think to enjoy DBS anime, that means it isn't good.

I know a lot of people who confess to liking "trash TV". Shows like soaps and Love Island fill that void for many. I'm not a fan of either, but enjoy watching Dragon Ball Super for that reason. You could say its like my comfort food.

[Shinsa]

If one needs to switch their brains of and not think to enjoy DBS anime, that means it isn't good.

I know a lot of people who confess to liking "trash TV". Shows like soaps and Love Island fill that void for many. I'm not a fan of either, but enjoy watching Dragon Ball Super for that reason. You could say its like my comfort food.

This makes me sad...I've talked with many friends in my age group giving the excuse...

"well its DB, you cant expect good story telling"
"DB is just about getting stronger, new transformations and fights"
"meh I just watch for the fights because Dragonball characters are shallow"
"DB and DBZ also did it back in the day so why expect anything better?"

We all know Super/modern DB is not good but we just kind of accept it. Why this saddens me is because I'd like to expect a much better handled and evolution of the show turn rather then a "turn off your brain" show filled with old cliches and bad jokes.

[Dbzk1999]

Yes, it overall got my friend formally into dragon ball, and I enjoyed being able to watch the Tournament of Power in particular alongside him as the arc went on. Besides that I found myself enjoying most of it. Only thing I was indifferent towards was the movie recaps, which even then, I still enjoyed the interlude episodes and did appreciate certain additions.

[ABED]

If one needs to switch their brains of and not think to enjoy DBS anime, that means it isn't good.

I know a lot of people who confess to liking "trash TV". Shows like soaps and Love Island fill that void for many. I'm not a fan of either, but enjoy watching Dragon Ball Super for that reason. You could say its like my comfort food.

This makes me sad...I've talked with many friends in my age group giving the excuse...

"well its DB, you cant expect good story telling"
"DB is just about getting stronger, new transformations and fights"
"meh I just watch for the fights because Dragonball characters are shallow"
"DB and DBZ also did it back in the day so why expect anything better?"

We all know Super/modern DB is not good but we just kind of accept it. Why this saddens me is because I'd like to expect a much better handled and evolution of the show turn rather then a "turn off your brain" show filled with old cliches and bad jokes.

Can we refrain from assuming our opinions are more than that - opinions?

Even the trashiest show doesn't require you turn your brain off. Stories aren't intellectual to begin with, they're meant to be experienced emotionally. The original manga was light fiction. It wasn't heady and it's also a show that one can easily turn one's brain off and enjoy for what it was. It wasn't high brow in the slightest. That's not a criticism either.

[super michael]

I know a lot of people who confess to liking "trash TV". Shows like soaps and Love Island fill that void for many. I'm not a fan of either, but enjoy watching Dragon Ball Super for that reason. You could say its like my comfort food.

This makes me sad...I've talked with many friends in my age group giving the excuse...

"well its DB, you cant expect good story telling"
"DB is just about getting stronger, new transformations and fights"
"meh I just watch for the fights because Dragonball characters are shallow"
"DB and DBZ also did it back in the day so why expect anything better?"

We all know Super/modern DB is not good but we just kind of accept it. Why this saddens me is because I'd like to expect a much better handled and evolution of the show turn rather then a "turn off your brain" show filled with old cliches and bad jokes.

Can we refrain from assuming our opinions are more than that - opinions?

Even the trashiest show doesn't require you turn your brain off. Stories aren't intellectual to begin with, they're meant to be experienced emotionally. The original manga was light fiction. It wasn't heady and it's also a show that one can easily turn one's brain off and enjoy for what it was. It wasn't high brow in the slightest. That's not a criticism either.

Having episodes like Beerus in a costume wasn't funny, when it was all about Goku being 100% dumb. Goku never figured anything out, even when it was clear as day. Goku was awful in DBS a complete clown. In the Goku Black Saga Goku said and did a lot of stupid things.

Chi Chi OMG her stupid rules about training and fighting got so old.

Mr Buu every time he was sleeping. As for Goten and Trunks they were not allowed to do anything thanks to their family and friends. If Toei didn't want to use them, fair enough. However they acted like they were going to do things, only for them to do nothing.

Toei problem is they like to go overboard. Toriyama does it 1x, while Toei does it 11x.


As for power scale DBS was awful. How in the world can Goten and Trunks struggle against a snake. Kid Gohan and Kid Goku defeated dinosaurs like nothing.
Goten and Trunks got battled damage from humans in Monster Island, which should be impossible seeing how strong they are.


All I know is DBS Anime there was episode I really hated. This never happened when I watched DB/DBZ/GT, regardless what languaged I watched it in. This includes reading DB Manga.

DBS Manga there was some bad writing, but luckily they didn't go overboard so I can overlook it. Majority of the time it was good and enjoyable.

[ABED]

That isn't the point I'm making. Stories aren't bad if you "have to turn your brain off". DB has never been highbrow or even middle brow. Power scaling and lore and things like that don't matter. It's not what storytelling is about. It's about catharsis, not consistency of information.

There are substantive reasons why Super doesn't work. If you don't like it, fine. You're welcome to that opinion, but can we please stop acting like it's objective fact?

[ClutchBangstrip]

I do. But not enough to rewatch it, besides the highlights on YT and the films.

The big thing that affects Super is, I know how much the franchise makes. And it makes too much to still be undergoing these run-of-the-mill industry-anime antics.

The manga is a slightly different. The art is great, Super Hero's a fine story, but why are they retelling it?

If they shared their plans for the franchise, some of this would be easier to accept. But they're treating it like Naruto or One Piece when it's more like Star Wars or Marvel. The franchise is like a fallback for the companies to meet their targets. They'll just do some random Dragon Ball thing to reach the financial goal.



Keep in mind Dragon Ball has barely done anything with the manga or anime. This is why Super's starting to feel like a cash grab, now.

[JulieYBM]

Dragon Ball was always a cash-grab, so I'm not seeing a difference here, especially when you want to compare it to Star Wars and Marvel of all things.

[Shinsa]

That isn't the point I'm making. Stories aren't bad if you "have to turn your brain off". DB has never been highbrow or even middle brow. Power scaling and lore and things like that don't matter. It's not what storytelling is about. It's about catharsis, not consistency of information.

There are substantive reasons why Super doesn't work. If you don't like it, fine. You're welcome to that opinion, but can we please stop acting like it's objective fact?

Sorry I confused you, I was talking about how my friends and I all think DBS isn't a good show and they give excuses I don't really agree with as to why it is ok for the show to be bad. I wasn't trying to state the whole fandom think the show was bad because clearly that's not true. As I said in my post above, I do like that others can enjoy the show and have had fun watching the movies in a theatre. However my personal opinion is that of dissatisfaction with the current state of DB.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I think ABED is responding to super michael.

[super michael]

That isn't the point I'm making. Stories aren't bad if you "have to turn your brain off". DB has never been highbrow or even middle brow. Power scaling and lore and things like that don't matter. It's not what storytelling is about. It's about catharsis, not consistency of information.

There are substantive reasons why Super doesn't work. If you don't like it, fine. You're welcome to that opinion, but can we please stop acting like it's objective fact?

Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z had these things great:

- Gags
- Character development
- Battles
- Story writing
- World building and expanding

Becoming fans of many characters in DB/DBZ was easy. They even combined gags and battle in creative ways, which made it enjoyable.


DBS fails when it comes to gags. They fail at developing character and instead makes them worse.
They can't combine gag and battle into one thing.

So objectively DBS Anime is inferior compared to DB/DBZ.

DBS was predictable, when a character appeared it was easy to predict what would happen.

As for DBS Super Heroes did they really have to make Goku completely dumb in the movie, not showing he was smart in anyway? The good thing is it was only one small section of the movie, but Goku never acted smart there.
Luckily the movie was good.