Remastered dub is beyond unwatchable to me

[DB1984]

And I don't mean just the cropping and DNR. There are other factors, too.

For whatever reason (whether it's incompetence, or Funimation felt like pissing off fans for shits and giggles), they made some line flubs (i.e. King Kai suddenly talking about Planet Vegeta in episode 36, when he was supposed to be talking about Planet Namek), removed vocal effects, made unnecessary music changes (when they remember Goku after he decides to stay dead), made unnecessary changes to the dub like Piccolo's "At least you're not as dumb as I am" (what was wrong with the original "You're not as dumb as you look"?), and adding lines in scenes where there weren't any originally (i.e. Babidi yelling at Boo to finish off Majin Vegeta in episode 236, because apparently, according to Funimation, DBZ viewers have short attention spans).

Yes, as you can probably tell from this rant, I saw TotallyNotMark's video. If he hadn't made that video, I wouldn't have noticed all these stupid changes. Kudos to him for making it. Shame. It could have been great, and like he said in that video, some of the changes made sense. But all of that got ruined by the stuff I mentioned.

[MasenkoHA]

Pretty sure the remastered dub was working off a workprint of the old dub. Other users have pointed out the placement of the Team Faulconer score in the remastered dub matches the placement of the YTV airings and certain lines that weren't in the Toonami US or DVD singles version but in the remastered version were also in the YTV airings, because apparently Funimation gave Ocean Group a rough cut of their dub to distribute.

Same thing with the missing vocal effects. I don't think removing them was a deliberate choice, I think they were just last minute creative decisions, that Funimation forgot to re-include


At any rate I don't see how the remastered dub is any worse than the original dub. Certain lines make no sense but even the original dub had nonsensical lines all the time, a few more couldn't hurt.

[Vegetto95]

I mean, it's FUNimation. More specifically, it's FUNimation circa 2007, as those changes were all first made in the godawful "season" DVD sets (mockingly called the "orange bricks" by the fandom). They were pretty much just running all the audio and video through automatic processors all slipshod, and the final product absolutely shows it.

They didn't care. They knew people would GOBBLE them up for $20-30 a pop for 30+ episodes each set, and sadly were proven right. They manipulated the market to give the orange bricks the advantage, and that has had lasting ramifications to this day with their equally shitty "season" Blu-rays and the various other re-releases. There are already plenty of threads that go into how FUNimation either got the wrong idea, or more likely purposely and maliciously decided this, from the success of orange bricks and assumed that the fans just want 16x9, heavy DNR, and wildly incorrect contrast/color/brightness, so I won't go into that further here, as that's besides the main point that you're focusing on.

FUNimation's original 1996-2003 dub of Z was already a pipin' hot trash fire, and they somehow managed to make it even worse with those releases. The "Ultimate Uncut" redub of the first 67 episodes was a pathetic, lazy rehash of the same Saban-mandated scripts they used in 1996-98, just voiced by their in-house cast instead of the Ocean cast and without the censorship. They fixed the "your father was a brilliant scientist" bullshit only because of the ridicule it had gotten on the internet in the intervening years and people absolutely would have noticed and probably complained if they hadn't... buuuuuut, that's pretty much it. Yeah, big fuckin' deal. You want pats on the back for that, FUNimation? Cuz you changed almost NOTHING ELSE in your shitty "Ultimate Uncut" scripts. There are still SOOOO many lines that are BLATANTLY incorrect because they're ripped word for fucking word from the '96 dub. It's a travesty. But hey... at least they got rid of stuff like "I can see their parachutes!", "Too bad it's Sunday, that building would have been full tomorrow", "You just wait until it grows back!", "They blew up the cargo robot!", etc. Because, as we all know, changes like that are SUCH an impossibly high bar...

And then there's stuff like the re-recorded lines in the Freeza and Garlic, Jr. arcs where they had Chris Sabat, Sonny Strait, and Stephanie Nadolny re-voice the same exact lines that they did in 1999-2000, to try and have the "updated" 1999 dub flow better out of the 2005 "Ultimate Uncut" dub. Only difference it makes, however, is things like Chris Sabat saying "The liquid in the capsule is synthetic Saiyan DNA" (a very, VERY incorrect statement) in his gross Hulk Hogan with smoker's lung voice rather than saying it in his shitty Brian Drummond impression voice, and Sonny Strait replying "Woah, Mondo Cool!!" in a less nerdy, nasally voice that wasn't as much of a terrible Terry Klassen impression. GREAT job, FUNi. You really burned the candle at both ends trying to fix all of your past mistakes...

But then, when you go into the "Trunks Saga" (oh, FUNimation and their stupid obsession with arbitrary "sagas"...), it's right back to high-pitched Brian Drummond impression Sabat Vegeta. Which oh so clearly showed how much FUNi actually cared... they couldn't be bothered to re-record past the first 40 or so episodes of their 1999 in-house dub. Lazy and uncaring, that's all it is.

The FUNimation dub was ALWAYS a cheap, poorly produced, mishmashed mess with little to no real consistency to speak of, since the very beginning, and the 2007 "season sets" somehow just made it even WORSE than it already was. All I'm saying is... leave it to FUNimation to make something that's unwatchable, and then make it BEYOND unwatchable (your words lol) a few years later due to sheer laziness. And like you said, they NEVER went back and fixed ANY of this. The dub you'll find on Crunchyroll or on the Blu-ray sets from 2014-onward is the same exact butcherjob they released in 2007. Again... they DO. NOT. CARE. Simple as that. 'Tis why I stick with the vastly superior original Japanese version, my friend lol

I am genuinely curious though, since you literally admitted that you wouldn't have noticed the changes had Mark not pointed them out in his video (which I saw as well)... that honestly makes me struggle to understand why it suddenly upsets you so much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm assuming you'd long since already watched the 2007+ versions I've explained about that Mark talks about, and if so, that means you'd already watched them without noticing the slight changes from the "version from your childhood". And if that is the case... why is it such a huge deal to you now only in hindsight? Mark gives a few SLIGHTLY egregious examples in his video (though they're honestly pretty innocuous when it really comes down to it, and those are pretty much the worst of them to boot), but in the end, the 2005-7 re-dub is really only different from the 1996-2003 dub in EXTREMELY minor ways.

Soooo... could it just be that you're either a) just now realizing how bad the dub really is and ALWAYS was in general, b) just have rose-tinted nostalgia goggles for the original late-90s-early 2000s Toonami era dub GLUED onto your face, or c) both? Not trying to be negative towards you in ANY way, I'm simply genuinely curious as the things you're saying are honestly quite confusing to me in the face of the 2007 dub, which you claim to hate so much (but only in hindsight), in actuality being 99.9% the same beast as the 1996-2003 dub which you claim to love so much.

[VegettoEX]

None of this really affects me on a day-to-day basis except this fairly standard interaction:

"Billy Texas" exclusively watches the dub, loves it, etc. etc. etc. Awesome. Genuinely have no beef with that. Live your life, love what you love, etc. etc. etc.

"Billy Texas" insists that they must watch it the same way they did when they were a kid, because that's the version they love, and unless it's exactly that version, nothing else matters.

We have a breakdown here, because nothing they can reasonably easily watch today IS what they saw when they were a kid. From fairly minor quibbles like music placement differences all the way up to entirely different lines read by an actor performing redos in 2007 alongside someone else's performance in 1999, it's a substantially different product from what aired on Toonami!

Ultimately that may be fine to them in some cases and they still shut down there and insist upon "the dub"... but I find for OTHER fans that this revelation shatters a lot of preconceptions and starts opening the door to "alternate" versions of the show (and by that I mean the actual original Japanese version!).

(Same thing happens when some of the more observant ones dip into non-Z material and wonder why there are three different young Goku voices in four different non-Z-original-DB movies: the "oh this actually was kind of a production disaster, huh?" realization opening up doors to other versions.)

It's just that funny thing that, if you're here posting on Kanzenshuu's forum you're already pretty self-selectively likely more broadly informed than the average "Billy Texas"... where you're left scratching your head wondering how someone can cling to something they know so comparatively little about.

I treat it all like a teaching/learning opportunity more than anything else! Rather than shit all over it (which is all too easy and tempting to do), I find it more helpful to just describe it and nod along with how wild it is.

[DB1984]

Vegetto95, to answer your question (sorry, I didn't fully read your post until now), I guess you could say a little bit of both. Plus, I don't like that they replaced the 1999-2003 Team Faulconer opening theme with the movie theme. The movie theme is generic as hell.

Even though the Kikuchi BGM remains the definitive score of the original DB/DBZ, the music changes I mentioned made me appreciate the 1999-2003 Team Faulconer score more than ever.

[GhostEmperorX]

Honestly, as I said somewhere else before (and said by others on this website countless times), the English version by Funimation after moving in-house is just about nothing but chaos, confusion, and contradictions in its entirety. This is the "legacy" that Funimation has chosen to leave behind for the franchise in the Anglosphere, and on a wider level the inexcusable line of absurd home video releases.
And stuff like this really serves to do nothing but muddy the waters in general.
But again, this whole situation is just too far gone...

I am genuinely curious though, since you literally admitted that you wouldn't have noticed the changes had Mark not pointed them out in his video (which I saw as well)... that honestly makes me struggle to understand why it suddenly upsets you so much.

I think that would be an easy question to answer, from the simple standpoint of realizing just how many other changes were made on top of an already compromised production. Like "You thought X was bad? Wait till you see Y", that kind of thing.

[Vegetto95]

Vegetto95, to answer your question (sorry, I didn't fully read your post until now), I guess you could say a little bit of both. Plus, I don't like that they replaced the 1999-2003 Team Faulconer opening theme with the movie theme. The movie theme is generic as hell.

Even though the Kikuchi BGM remains the definitive score of the original DB/DBZ, the music changes I mentioned made me appreciate the 1999-2003 Team Faulconer score more than ever.

You're good, I didn't expect you to answer right away, especially considering the length of what I wrote lol

I'm just curious though, did the 2007 redub really change the Faulconer score that much? I still have a good few of the old singles DVDs from the early 2000s, and I compared a few dozen scenes to the redub a few years ago out of curiosity and in my experience the music is like 99.9% the same placement. It kinda seems like you're vastly overstating the changes that were made, or the TNM vid made it seem to you like the differences were more substantial than they really are.

I'm not arguing that there definitely are a good few changes made (and obviously the "Ultimate Uncut" redub of the first 67 eps are quite a different experience than the highly edited and censored 53 from '96-98, though a huge percentage of the scripts are mostly unchanged), but it's usually little more than maybe one or two lines of slightly different dialogue every few episodes at best; the very, very small amount of digital alterations to voices being removed (i.e., third form Freeza when he's transforming into his final form, Ôzaru roars, Super Boo, etc., none of which are really around for particularly long anyway); and a few small changes in music placement here and there. But as a whole, the vast, overwhelming majority of what is on the "Season" DVDs/Blu-rays is the same as what was on the old single DVDs and the uncut TV airings from 20+ years ago.

But hey, if you are really, really adamant about being able to experience the dub as it originally played in the late 90s/early 2000s, might I suggest eBay? You can still find EVERY ONE of the old Pioneer and FUNimation singles DVDs on there in really good condish for dirt fuckin' cheap! I've looked quite a few times and there are usually at least a dozen listings of each individual DVD for well under ten bucks each. Yeah, that would cost you probably $6-700+ all said and done since there were almost 90 of them in total (unless you luck out and find someone selling the "Saga" box sets for a little cheaper, which is rare but 100% does happen from time to time), but if it's worth it to you, then go for it! Also, if you have a local used book store, check them out too! I have several stores like that near me and I find those DVDs for like $5 there AAAAALLL the time lmao

Those old DVDs still have Rock the Dragon and the later Faulconer instrumental openings intact, as well as all the original music placement, dialogue, voices, etc. They don't look that great anymore in terms of picture quality (though honestly they're still much better than the 16x9 crap), but that's the best you can legally do without doing the kinds of things that Mike doesn't approve of. However, if you want to be REALLY hardcore in terms of nostalgia and watch the edited cut of the in-house dub to re-experience it just as it was on Toonami back in 1999-2003... you're gonna have to buy the VHS singles and play them on a VCR, as the DVDs were only ever released uncut with dual English/Japanese audio, but each had two separate VHS releases: uncut English only, and edited English only. But hey, there are machines nowadays that can convert VHS to digital video, and I see the VHS singles on eBay for super cheap all the time as well, no different than the DVDs, so the options ARE there. Might be a mite expensive to Catch 'Em All, but they're absolutely there.

[DB1984]

Vegetto95, if I ever do create a collection of English versions with the 1996-2003 run, I think I'll try to see if I can make it a hybrid (i.e. restoring NEPs).

The DVDs/VHSs are missing recaps/previews in many spots. Getting every volume on eBay is a Herculean task. And I never really quite got why Cartoon Network always edited out the minute-long intro.

[Vegetto95]

Vegetto95, if I ever do create a collection of English versions with the 1996-2003 run, I think I'll try to see if I can make it a hybrid (i.e. restoring NEPs).

The DVDs/VHSs are missing recaps/previews in many spots. Getting every volume on eBay is a Herculean task. And I never really quite got why Cartoon Network always edited out the minute-long intro.

You do have a point there with the missing stuff on the old DVDs. I do know that many of those did have recaps and previews in bonus features, but that's probably not all-encompassing. FUNimation in general treats their original Toonami-era dub the way George Lucas and Fox/Disney have always treated the original Star Wars trilogy (though, IMO, the original product of that is actually good, unlike the FUNi DBZ dub XD). It's become mired by so many changes that a lot of fans are not particularly fond of, buuuut it's still like 97% the same as the original when you really examine it closely.

But hey, at least you always have YouTube if you want to look up the old Wasserman/Faulconer intros and outros.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

At any rate I don't see how the remastered dub is any worse than the original dub.

Both are deeply flawed, but the original dub at least feels like an earnest attempt at creating a product with some semblance of consistency. The Ocean cast brought truly great performances for the first 2 seasons. When Funimation hired the Texas cast they tried to mask the cast change with actors that did their best to imitate them. There is also a gravitas to Doc Harris and a so-bad-its-good corniness to Dale Kelly's lines that I'd take over Kyle Herbert's bland narrations for the entire run. It's also not as jarring going from Ron Wasserman's score to Faulconer Productions as it is by listening to Nathan Johnson first, the former flows better even if they're still not a perfect match.

[MasenkoHA]

At any rate I don't see how the remastered dub is any worse than the original dub.

Both are deeply flawed, but the original dub at least feels like an earnest attempt at creating a product with some semblance of consistency. The Ocean cast brought truly great performances for the first 2 seasons. When Funimation hired the Texas cast they tried to mask the cast change with actors that did their best to imitate them. There is also a gravitas to Doc Harris and a so-bad-its-good corniness to Dale Kelly's lines that I'd take over Kyle Herbert's bland narrations for the entire run. It's also not as jarring going from Ron Wasserman's score to Faulconer Productions as it is by listening to Nathan Johnson first, the former flows better even if they're still not a perfect match.

I'm not sure if I can really believe there was any earnest attempt at creating a product with some semblance of consistency when it's an entirely new cast and new score between seasons. And it was Funimation's own decision to drop the Vancouver cast and the Wasserman score not because they had to but because they wanted to. The Funimation cast may have been directed to sound like the Ocean cast but it's clearly not the same people and the drop in acting quality across the board is highly noticeable. As awkward as it going from Schemmel and Sabat's UUE Goku and Piccolo to the old 1999 voices, going from Kelamis and Mcneil Goku and Piccolo to 1999 Schemmel and Sabat is even more distracting and bad.

The music is a mess no matter what. The Cakemix studios music sounds nothing like the Wasserman score (pretty sure one of the musicians said they were instructed by the highers up to not repeat the Wasserman score which checks out with Fukanaga saying he never liked that score to begin with) but neither does the Johnson score. I'd get whiplash going from Wasserman to Team Faulconer and I'd get whiplash going from Johnson to Team Faulconer, but at least the remastered dub defaults to the original Kikuchi score which works better with the original Dragon Ball dub always using that score anyways; instead of going from Kikuchi to Johnson or Wasserman to Team Faulconer it's just Kikuchi all the way through until you get to GT or Super.


The Funi Z dub is fundamentaly broken whether you watch the original dub or the remastered dub it's just a poorly constructed inconsistent product due to poor foresight and lack of proper quality control from a nepo baby company. Even with the remastered dub being the better version....that's not saying much.

[Thanos]

I treat it all like a teaching/learning opportunity more than anything else! Rather than shit all over it (which is all too easy and tempting to do), I find it more helpful to just describe it and nod along with how wild it is.

I know it can potentially come across as a bit arrogant or self-righteous coming from the perspective of only consuming the original stuff (something I've definitely been guilty of over the years), but the fact is if you are in English fandom you have been likely subject to a hell of a lot of unnecessary confusion, inconsistency, and lack of chronological coherence (skipping to Z before presenting the original as a prequel series despite so much context being necessary to understand Z and reveals that get spoiled early in Z without having any reason to care if you haven't seen the original series). That isn't even getting into the liberal creative liberties Funimation introduced which had unforeseen consequences that resulted in them writing themselves into a corner. Worst of all, these decisions still reverberate to this day. I see a lot of people on YouTube introducing their friends, family, etc. to Dragon Ball and its inevitably those early dubs.

I've certainly lightened up on my resentment toward the Funimation dub, but they did their fans extremely dirty in innumerable, unnecessary ways. They literally invented a whole ass soundtrack out of thin air, and then put their fans in a position to no longer be able to experience it or be forced to shoehorn an entire audio track on their home releases. If you follow the Japanese version, the consistency is great. 35+ years of the same voices for most of the cast, save for unavoidable exceptions because life happens. Best of all? Cell doesn't have a weird voice bug in the video games and Coola/Freeza don't randomly jump between having normal voices and lines with cheap reverb effects for their metal forms.

[jjgp1112]

Pretty sure the remastered dub was working off a workprint of the old dub. Other users have pointed out the placement of the Team Faulconer score in the remastered dub matches the placement of the YTV airings and certain lines that weren't in the Toonami US or DVD singles version but in the remastered version were also in the YTV airings, because apparently Funimation gave Ocean Group a rough cut of their dub to distribute.

Same thing with the missing vocal effects. I don't think removing them was a deliberate choice, I think they were just last minute creative decisions, that Funimation forgot to re-include


At any rate I don't see how the remastered dub is any worse than the original dub. Certain lines make no sense but even the original dub had nonsensical lines all the time, a few more couldn't hurt.

Yes, and Scott Morgan mentioned that Funimation's editor would make last minute changes to the music placement after Faulconer Porductions sent their cut. In fact, every single example brought up in TotallyNotMark's video were the ones Scott Morgan confirmed on the music board as being what they had originally submitted . The poorly fitting song on the Orange Bricks during Goku's nightmare for example, was one that Scott Morgan composed for that scene and actually didn't like the direction he was given, and Funimation agreed and put a new song in there after Faulconer sent it to them.

[jjgp1112]

Vegetto95, to answer your question (sorry, I didn't fully read your post until now), I guess you could say a little bit of both. Plus, I don't like that they replaced the 1999-2003 Team Faulconer opening theme with the movie theme. The movie theme is generic as hell.

Even though the Kikuchi BGM remains the definitive score of the original DB/DBZ, the music changes I mentioned made me appreciate the 1999-2003 Team Faulconer score more than ever.

The Main series theme got "replaced" because in reality, it's actually shorter than the Opening Animation. In the original Z Dub, Funimation shortened the intro by 45 seconds, thus the Faulconer intro theme is only 1 minute compared to the 1:45 length of both animations. They *could* have used Tendril's heavy metal cover of the theme from Movie 8, but that would've still been a different theme from the one actually used and since it was composed specifically towards the Cha-La animation its cues wouldn't have matched well with We Gotta Power.The other option would be using the Ultimate Uncut intro for episodes 1-67, but while that does match the length of Cha-La, Funi again used an entirely different intro for those episodes and that song would've been HILARIOUSLY ill-fitting over the Cha-La animation.

So the easily solution was to simply use the Mark Menza theme that was composed specifically to the Cha-La animation (and later re-editeds to fit We Gotta Power) and keep it consistent across the whole series.

(I SUPPOSE they could've also used the extended the Rock The Dragon edit from Budokai 1 but that song wasn't used in the dub past the Frieza saga so any way you slice it there's no perfect solution)

[ZeroIsOurHero]

The Funi Z dub is fundamentaly broken whether you watch the original dub or the remastered dub it's just a poorly constructed inconsistent product due to poor foresight and lack of proper quality control from a nepo baby company. Even with the remastered dub being the better version....that's not saying much.

Preach, Masenko. The original sin of Funi’s DBZ dub is that it was never meant to be a proper dub in the first place. It was a low-budget sequel to a 4Kids-esque hackjob made by a completely different company, that miraculously managed to stumble into actually being a decent translation by the end of the series. Funi should have used the Ultimate Uncut dub as a way to redo the entire dub from beginning to end, but they didn’t, and the results are horrendously inconsistent. You go from a dub made in 2005, to a dub made in 1999 with audio from 2007 awkwardly spliced in, before ending with a dub made in 2003. It’s enough to give even casual viewers a headache.

God, I wish Funimation never existed, and a company like Viz Media or Pioneer got the rights to the DB franchise instead. Their dubs may not have been perfect, but they were complete, consistent experiences that started at the beginning and ended at the end, and that’s more than I can say about what Dragon Ball fans have had to settle for.

[jjgp1112]

You go from a dub made in 2005, to a dub made in 1999 with audio from 2007 awkwardly spliced in, before ending with a dub made in 2003. It’s enough to give even casual viewers a headache.

In my experience not only do casual viewers barely even notice enough to remark on it, half the time they don't even think to switch from the Japanese music track.

Personally I think the use of an older edit for the remastered sets is a consequence of them adding the Japanese score and giving the dub score track a new mix alongside it. Their audo engineer just grabbed the first track stems availabe and since this is Funi I doubt there was much QC in that regard.

If you can't tell I'm kinda peeved that the TNM video is creating the impression that these changes were deliberate from Funi when there's readily available evidence straight from people involved in the dub that it was just an oversight

[Vegetto95]

God, I wish Funimation never existed, and a company like Viz Media or Pioneer got the rights to the DB franchise instead. Their dubs may not have been perfect, but they were complete, consistent experiences that started at the beginning and ended at the end, and that’s more than I can say about what Dragon Ball fans have had to settle for.

I know it's been said a thousand and one times (especially on here lol), but it bears repeating here... the "Pioneer dubs" of Z movies 1 through 3 should have been the basis for the production of FUNi English dub as a goddamn whole. Less strict control from FUNimation and ESPECIALLY Saban led to the Japanese music being intact and the script being pretty damn faithful to the Japanese version. Hell, you even have Kelamis shouting "Kaiôken" with the correct pronunciation at a time when he and Corlett were directed to use the erroneous "Kay-oh-ken" pronunciation in the simultaneously-produced dub of the TV series, and it even said Haiya/Hire Dragon, years before FUNi came up with "Icarus".

It wouldn't have been perfect, those movie dubs still had plenty of FUNisms like Krillin, Tien, Turles, Master Roshi, Destructo Disk, the incorrect "Say-en" pronunciation, etc., but it would have been a damn sight better than what we were getting from FUNi for the TV anime then and especially after. Sure, they FINALLY did something pretty similar with their Dragon Ball Kai dub... almost 15 years later in 2010, FAAAAAAR past the point where it was too late to fucking matter.

But even then, there's the fact that 1) Kai in its essence, regardless of language, is a poorly-edited and unnecessary hackjob made by Tôei for no other reason than to make a quick and lazy buck off of a long-dormant IP that had seen a slight resurgence in popularity at the time, and 2) FUNi STILL kept 97% of their dub-isms in it, changing one or two things like correcting the pronunciation of Kaiôken, using Makankosappo instead of "Special Beam Cannon", using Kienzan (though of course they mispronounced it as "KienzEn") instead of dumbass Power Rangers-esque "Destructo Disk", buuut... things like Tien, Tri-Beam, "Say-en", Dr. "Djuh-roh", "Yah-djuh-roh-bee", Frieza, Master Roshi, Flying Nimbus, Korin, Jeice, Burter, Recoome, etc. etc. etc. were all left completely unchanged, and a large number of the incredibly unfitting 1999 voice casting choices were sadly left unreplaced (and even then, I've heard tell that the main reason that FUNi replaced godawful Linda Young with the VASTLY superior choice of Chris Ayres as Freeza is moreso than anything because she wasn't able keep up with the scripts or something to that effect, rather than Ayres just being a better choice and much closer to Nakao).

So, as much as people laud the Kai dub and the Pioneer movies 1-3 dubs, they were still very flawed and plagued by FUNi's localizations. However, again... they were still a DAAAAAMN sight better than their initial DB, Z, and GT dubs and FAAAAR more faithful, and it's a shame that we didn't get that level of quality for the rest of FUNi's early DB efforts.

I hate that the best we can have are pointless discussions about total what-if scenarios.

[VegettoEX]

Similar to a prior thread, there's a lot of the same few individuals just responding back and forth and congratulating each other about how correct their opinions are. There needs to be a little more to the conversation than that, please, and hopefully something that hasn't necessarily been beaten to death since 1999! Consider what it is you're looking to get out of the conversation and how that might come across to others.

[Vegetto95]

If you can't tell I'm kinda peeved that the TNM video is creating the impression that these changes were deliberate from Funi when there's readily available evidence straight from people involved in the dub that it was just an oversight

While I completely agree with the statement about the video (I have at best a love/hate relationship with Mark's videos... he does a lot of good stuff, but my GOD does he also get a LOT of stuff wrong at the same time, and I feel that that more likely than not has an overall negative effect on the fandom, since many American DB fans in my experience don't actually know much more than the most basic facts about the series. He's NOWHERE NEAR as bad as some other prominent DBtubers... but he ain't no MistareFusion, that's for damn sure), I still feel that it bears mentioning that those things STILL happened because of poor business practices at FUNimation. They definitely have a history of deliberately being borderline malicious in some of the ways they treat the Dragon Ball IP, but the also have a long history of... just kinda not giving a shit.

All of the changes made that the TNM vid talks about originated in the 2007 "orange brick" DVDs, and those DVDs as a whole were just EXEMPLARY of FUNimation's sheer, unadulterated laziness. As has been bandied about time and time again since their release over 15 years ago now (Jesus, time flies...), the entire process to make those pieces of shit was just "Throw it in the automated, expensive thingamabobber, go for a coffee, and come back and laser it onto some DVDs when it's done doing it's hi-tech whozamawhatsis". Not a single lick of love and care went into processing the video, and it was the exact same case for the audio. That's where all the differences in the 2007 dub vs. the 1999-03 dub come from; not from FUNi deliberately making all of those individual changes, but from them just being deliberately lazy and uncaring about the product that they wouldn't have fucking EXISTED without.

[ABED]

I'm oddly ambivalent to this situation. I am nostalgic in certain respects. Despite not having a desire to go back and watch the dub of anything other than Kai forward, I still wish the original dub was still there. I might spot check it here and there to transport myself back to 1999. I may have never done it, but I don't like that the option is taken off the table. I wouldn't mind if it were a few minor things here or there, but this version is like someone pulling on a loose thread and ruining the sweater.