Vegeta admitting Goku is a greater genius

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Mireya
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Vegeta admitting Goku is a greater genius

Post by Mireya » Sun Aug 13, 2023 9:35 pm

There're two statements that catch the attention:

Chapter: 402 (DBZ 208), P10.1
Vegeta: “It drives me crazy, but I’ll admit it…Despite doing all that special training, I didn’t surpass Kakarot…Th-that bastard’s a genius…But Cell is 1 or 2 steps above even him…”

Chapter: 458 (DBZ 264), P10.3-4, P11.2-3
Context: after Goku and Vegeta fight for a while
Goku: “Un-unbelievable…I thought I trained considerably in the afterlife…But we’re completely even…You trained more than me…”
Vegeta: “…No, that’s not it…I think I did perform more special training than you, but you’re a greater genius than I am…No matter how much time passed, this gap wouldn’t change…I realized this, when you fought with that monster Babidi sent…It was a shock…That’s why I secretly resolved myself…[ ] At the tournament, the people who knew that pair who Babidi made into his underlings said that they had become far stronger than before…I remembered that, and I thought…That if I were taken over by him too, then the gap between you and me would vanish…And I was right…”


Both times, Vegeta trains harder than Goku, but he can't get to his level. Wouldn't that be a straightforward way of hinting Goku's potential as bigger than his?

Some ppl argue that just means Goku has more special training abilities and innovative ways to access power which Vegeta does not. That may be true when looking at Goku's 1st RoSaT trip, where Goku's way of mastering the SSJ instead of forcing more power into it just made more difference than Vegeta's way, and Vegeta outright tells Goku was smart thinking that.

But the 2nd quote specifies Vegeta, possibly, making "more special" training than Goku... So that didn't rely upon their way of training... there genius can be seen as Goku's talent in developing himself even under less special training. When Vegeta calls him a genius in the CGs, he very possibly went through a similar route as Goku in making the SSJ natural, as he regarded that as the best way of doing things, and he still couldn't surpass Goku.

So the genius just screams to me as Goku having more potential overall than Vegeta.

Later in the series tho Vegeta rationalizes his never catching up as Goku's pursuing for power being more pure than his own, as Goku fights to better himself, not to win. Maybe that allowed Goku to have a more comprehensive understanding of himself and his ways of achieving those levels, so I'm not entirely sure.

Thoughts on this?

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Yuji
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Re: Vegeta admitting Goku is a greater genius

Post by Yuji » Mon Aug 14, 2023 5:30 am

No, Vegeta repeatedly proves throughout the series he has greater natural strength and potential to get physically stronger. Vegeta was born with the higher power level, was twice as strong when they fought on Earth despite not having access to all the magical and mystical training Goku did, and repeatedly shows afterwards how easily he can catch up to Goku despite not training as efficiently or with the same training methods.

We can see in Super that they're equals - or Vegeta is slightly stronger as of Superhero - even though Goku has over two decades of training experience on him, has trained with multiple Gods and sages, has always trained with other people and has always been smarter about it. The fact Vegeta could unlock the God forms without the ritual was proof enough of his talent. In the Moro arc, Goku and Vegeta basically reach the same end point even though Goku trained for 3x as long in a RoSaT with an angel, whereas Vegeta basically just did an enhanced version of a training regiment Goku had undergone multiple arcs ago in Yardrat. In the Boo arc example provided, Goku is impressed Vegeta can keep up even though he started from a weaker point (their SS forms during the Cell Games were worlds apart) and Goku could train in the Otherworld for several years - the Majin boost may have caught Vegeta up, but the fact he was almost there to begin with is impressive. Even though he's essentially been always playing catch-up, he's still Goku's equal. Everyone else always plays catch-up to Goku and they always get left in the dust until they give up.

Goku is ultimately just the smarter fighter. He trains more efficiently - Vegeta is prone to overtraining and for a long time was too arrogant to train with others. Goku has access to better training methods more often and sooner than others and doesn't let his pride get in the way of becoming someone's student. Goku is ahead because of this, not because he has more innate talent or potential than Vegeta. The series has always been consistent on this point - Goku's potential is lower than anyone else besides the humans, but he makes up for it by being smart, and training hard and consistently. He breaks his limits by honing his spirit and perfecting his martial arts in various ways - which ultimately also makes him physically stronger, but he doesn't bruteforce it.

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