Non-thread-worthy discussions

[MasenkoHA]

Are Blutz waves from the original manga/anime or a dub invented thing?

Blutz/Bruits Waves are in the original story. The overly elaborate and unnecessary explanation sounds like a dub thing but it's one of the rare instances of Toriyama explaining a fantasy concept.

Ironically, Funimation must have originally thought the explanation was too complicated/boring for kids since they initially junked it in favor of the infamous "Your father was a brilliant scientist!" bit

[TobyS]

I'm not sure if they directly mention being gogeta before or if the super cast identify z broly but if so that'd confirm their Broly version happened.

It doesn't need to. If that's Dragon Ball Super Goku and Vegeta (and they are), then obviously the Gogeta who fought Hearts is the same Gogeta who fought Broly (at any rate, the anime makes an indirect mention). Dragon Ball Z Broly has nothing to do here.

I'm curious if we can wedge moro in between the final two arcs or not. Granolah we can't because Goku doesnt recognise Bardock. How back to back was moro and granolah?

It's before Moro saga as well. As that's also a manga saga only and so they don't consider it.

It's not because of it being manga only, at least we don't know that, it's because of when the show started was between arcs and now it's contradicted what came later.

I'm just trying to work out when they diverged, after broly or before, and if you could fit the later arcs between the heroes arcs.

[Noah]

I wish DB was a bit more gory like The Boys, but that maybe would require to be seinen anime

[Grimlock]

One Piece is great! Netflix is ready for Dragon Ball (and Naruto, if they want). Now... Onto the road to the four elements!


By the way, I noticed that more often than not I see something related to Sandland over on Twitter. I don't follow anything Sandland-related, yet I often see something about it. If it weren't for the occasional Budokai Tenkaichi thread getting a new reply, I would have forgotten that it was announced by now. That on top of Dragon Ball Super Super Hero also having one of the worst marketings I've seen.

Things are dire for the Dragon Ball community (have been for years)...

[MrSatan2099]

Don't want to get too far off topic, and maybe it's being discussed elsewhere, but anybody check out One Piece yet?
I've only watched the first episode, but I'm really enjoying it so far.

[KPike87]

Is there any difference between the 2010 "single DVD" release of Curse of the Blood Rubies and the Four Pack release in terms of video quality? I just learned that there was single DVD varient. According to Kanzenhu, the releases were less than two months apart. https://www.kanzenshuu.com/home-video/na/db-movies/.

I don't think there would be, but if anyone has both and could provide screenshots, that would be awesome.

[ZeroNeonix]

Today, I learned that King Kai not being revived was a deliberate choice of his in the manga, so that he could keep Goku company in the Otherworld. Interesting that the Dragon Ball Super anime chooses to stick with the DBZ anime's version of events instead of the manga's. I mean, yeah, it makes sense the Super anime would follow after the DBZ anime, but it usually doesn't work that way. The Super anime generally follows Toriyama's canon and does not acknowledge any of the anime filler of Z. Resurrection F, for instance, contradicts the Hell shown in the anime filler, instead going for a more personal Hell type of thing. I'm wondering if TOEI didn't know about the difference between the anime and manga here, if Toriyama himself forgot, or if they just thought it would be funnier if King Kai had been waiting all this time to be revived, but Goku kept blowing him off. I guess you could consider this to be a minor retcon.

I can't remember if this ever came up in the Super manga. If it did, I assume it followed the same gag of a ticked off King Kai waiting for Goku to bring him back to life. I feel like we at least see King Kai's planet in the manga, which would imply he was NOT staying in the Otherworld with the rest of the dead people.

[MasenkoHA]

Today, I learned that King Kai not being revived was a deliberate choice of his in the manga, so that he could keep Goku company in the Otherworld. Interesting that the Dragon Ball Super anime chooses to stick with the DBZ anime's version of events instead of the manga's. I mean, yeah, it makes sense the Super anime would follow after the DBZ anime, but it usually doesn't work that way. The Super anime generally follows Toriyama's canon and does not acknowledge any of the anime filler of Z. Resurrection F, for instance, contradicts the Hell shown in the anime filler, instead going for a more personal Hell type of thing. I'm wondering if TOEI didn't know about the difference between the anime and manga here, if Toriyama himself forgot, or if they just thought it would be funnier if King Kai had been waiting all this time to be revived, but Goku kept blowing him off. I guess you could consider this to be a minor retcon.

I can't remember if this ever came up in the Super manga. If it did, I assume it followed the same gag of a ticked off King Kai waiting for Goku to bring him back to life. I feel like we at least see King Kai's planet in the manga, which would imply he was NOT staying in the Otherworld with the rest of the dead people.

Toei has always been pick and choose when it comes to following Toriyama. The Super anime following the manga in contradiction to what happen in the Z anime is basically what happened in the Z anime all the time. What Piccolo obliterated Goku's space pod when it brainwashed Gohan? Uh no he didn't. Sorry Vegeta you wont keep your body in hell, please ignore that Freeza, Cell, Cold, and the Ginyus all kept their bodies in hell!

Unless I'm mistaken, the "Come Forth Shen Long" episode was anime exclusive, which is probably why it followed the Z anime instead of the manga.

[ZeroNeonix]

Somebody elsewhere said that King Kai's voice actor died around that time, and that was the reason for taking King Kai off the board. But now that I think about that, that doesn't really make sense. If one form of media was going to make King Kai willingly stay dead forever in tribute to the loss of the character's voice actor...wouldn't it be the anime, not the manga which has no voice acting? I don't know. Maybe I misunderstood.

[Grimlock]

Is there any other better way to categorize them then if this one isn't to everyone's liking?

Either four Dragon Ball movies and fifteen Dragon Ball Z movies, or you count them all up in sequence. Though I'd particularly have a hard time figuring out what you're talking about if you say, like, "Movie 18". My mindset separate them, so I have no idea what that is supposed to mean.

[KPike87]

Not worth creating a whole thread probably, but does anyone know the voice actor for Shenron in Japanese for Kai in Episode 97? The US Blu Ray doesn't credit him. The Dragon Ball Wiki (which I know not to trust on things without a source) says it's Ryūzaburō Ōtomo, so can anyone confirm or deny this?

[Grimlock]

are they just stalling because they're still coming up with the next new storyline,

Why would they stall? Dragon Ball Room, created back in 2016, is supposed to "plan things out and create them together", to "think about future developments". One would logically assume "stalling" would never be an issue in a situation like this (well, we don't see Marvel stalling, right?). We have to assume they have everything under control, they know what they are doing and that they know exactly what is next. Even if we have to put up with a lot of retellngs (and tournaments) dragging things out, they have everything mapped out. Poor management is but a fantasy in the face of organization and planning.

"Stalling" is often an excuse I see being brought up, but after 2016, I can hardly buy it. It's a lot of heads behind the scenes, not just one or two. Seven years since then is long enough for us to see the results of all their combined hard work they most certainly put into it.

[Yuji]

are they just stalling because they're still coming up with the next new storyline,

Why would they stall? Dragon Ball Room, created back in 2016, is supposed to "plan things out and create them together", to "think about future developments". One would logically assume "stalling" would never be an issue in a situation like this (well, we don't see Marvel stalling, right?). We have to assume they have everything under control, they know what they are doing and that they know exactly what is next. Even if we have to put up with a lot of retellngs (and tournaments) dragging things out, they have everything mapped out. Poor management is but a fantasy in the face of organization and planning.

"Stalling" is often an excuse I see being brought up, but after 2016, I can hardly buy it. It's a lot of heads behind the scenes, not just one or two. Seven years since then is long enough for us to see the results of all their combined hard work they most certainly put into it.

The recent Iyoku situation clearly proves they don't have everything under control and there is internal turmoil and a power struggle over the future of the series.

[Vegetto95]

Why would they stall? Dragon Ball Room, created back in 2016, is supposed to "plan things out and create them together", to "think about future developments". One would logically assume "stalling" would never be an issue in a situation like this (well, we don't see Marvel stalling, right?). We have to assume they have everything under control, they know what they are doing and that they know exactly what is next. Even if we have to put up with a lot of retellngs (and tournaments) dragging things out, they have everything mapped out. Poor management is but a fantasy in the face of organization and planning.

"Stalling" is often an excuse I see being brought up, but after 2016, I can hardly buy it. It's a lot of heads behind the scenes, not just one or two. Seven years since then is long enough for us to see the results of all their combined hard work they most certainly put into it.

I'm well aware of the Dragon Room (and considering your username, I think you'll agree that it kinda reminds me of the writer's room Hasbro and Paramount came up with a few years ago for Transformers films, and IMO it was a huge boon considering Bumblebee and, to a slightly lesser extent, Rise of the Beasts have been SIGNIFICANT improvements on the godawful Bay films lol), but ya gotta admit that it DOES feel like, if not stalling, then at least they Tōei and Shūeisha are spinning their wheels with DB atm.

As I said in the other thread you quoted me from, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me that they would have the manga just refer to the movie in the case of Broli and just skip past it to new story material, but then four years later do a direct adaptation of Broli's sequel with only a slight amount of new side plots that barely mattter. Why? What made Super Hero so different that it warranted a year and a half retelling the exact same thing we already saw in the movie last year when they didn't do so for its predecessor (note: I'm not arguing that the manga SHOULD have adapted the Broli movie, especially considering the majority of that film was a boring, mindless fightfest with way too much style, to the point where my eyes just started to glaze over midway through the 40-minute long drudge of a final battle, and absolutely no substance to speak of. All I'm saying is, it's a really weird dichotomy that makes no sense from a storytelling standpoint).

I mean, the existence of a writer's room in THEORY is a good thing, it SHOULD make things more organized... but with DBS, it's been anything but. What the fuck even is the sequence of events anymore? Just with the most recent arcs, in the past four-five years, we have AT LEAST TWO separate continuities because of the weird decision to adapt Super Hero to the manga: there's Moro manga arc -> Broli movie -> Super Hero movie, AND Moro manga arc -> Broli movie -> Super Hero manga arc (and to make matters worse, there's also most likely Tournament of Power anime arc -> Broli movie -> Super Hero movie as well ). Why? It's NOT like it was with the original run of the series where the manga and its anime adaptation were both being published/airing simultaneously and were constantly moving forward until they both ended. Stalling, spinning their wheels, trying something experimental, WHATEVER it is that the Dragon Room is trying to do with retelling Super Hero in manga form... you gotta admit that, whether you like this retelling or not, it just comes off as weird and unnecessary.

And you did say that "it's a lot of heads behind the scenes, not just one or two"... ever think that might mean there are simply too many cooks in the kitchen, if you know what I mean? And come on... "Poor management is but a fantasy in the face of organization and planning"? You KNOW that's not true. There are SO many big, giant corporations out there that plan and plan and plan but still find those plans laid to ruin in the end because some people are just fucking incompetent at their jobs (and given the overall pisspoor writing quality of the vast majority of what's come out of Super in the past eight years... I for one have not exactly been particularly impressed with their "hard work").

And in regards to Marvel not stalling (I assume you're talking about the MCU and not the comics since the comics have ALWAYS pumped out content rapid fire, but unlike the MCU, it never felt like it affected the storytelling quality)... maybe they should for a bit. I stopped watching MCU stuff years ago because the writing and storytelling quality just kept getting worse and worse and worse, and it absolutely seemed to be in tandem with the ridiculously increased number of projects they've been shitting out in Phases 4 and 5. Honestly, I don't think the creative heads at Marvel Studios have any more idea what they're actually doing than those in the Dragon Room do, it really just kinda seems like they're throwing things at the wall to see what sticks, just that the results are manifesting in very different, but equally frustrating and reductive, ways for these two once-great franchises that I once so dearly loved.

[ABED]

Marvel's decrease in quality, though I still think it's overblown, is not on the creative end. It's Disney. They were shifting everything towards Disney +, and there's only so many movies and TV shows you can do at one time before it hinders everything from the writing to the VFX.

The DB idea room sounds like an awful idea even in theory.

[Vegetto95]

Marvel's decrease in quality, though I still think it's overblown, is not on the creative end. It's Disney. They were shifting everything towards Disney +, and there's only so many movies and TV shows you can do at one time before it hinders everything from the writing to the VFX.

The DB idea room sounds like an awful idea even in theory.

I mean, the quality of Disney's productions has been lagging across the board for the last 5+ years, but it's especially noticeable with their theatrical releases, which once upon a time used to be incredibly well produced on average. Nowadays, the budgets of their theatrical releases are SKYROCKETING, but the overall quality of their films has been getting worse and worse (let's not talk about all the godawful, soulless remakes of their animated masterpieces). Disney+ at this point is just a content farm that's oversaturated with every idea Disney can possibly think of, and yeah... the quality of each individual thing suffers because Disney+ is just as focused on quantity over quality the same way they are with their slate of theatrical releases. And if the beyond-disappointing box office numbers of the vast majority of their (WAY too many) films released this year is anything to go by... general audiences are getting tired of their shit too.

And yeah, I feel like the thing about the Dragon Room that kind of misses the point is that Dragon Ball was at its absolute best, and I don't think I've EVER in all my 2+ decades in this fandom seen any DB fan argue otherwise, whether they're a fan of the current stuff or not, when there was just ONE guy named Toriyama Akira who was penning the main crux of it. Obviously he's WAY past his prime nowadays; some of his stuff still works but a LOT of it absolutely doesn't, and he doesn't have the passion or drive to work the way he did back then so many years after DB ending (and for good reason... the amount of work he put in back then was ASTONISHING. He deserved his retirement and I feel the franchise would be better off if he stayed retired. That is NOT a mark against him, moreso just the overall current state of the franchise due to EVERYONE involved). The franchise as it currently stands is just... kind of a gigantic fucking mess.

[Caulifor]

Somebody elsewhere said that King Kai's voice actor died around that time, and that was the reason for taking King Kai off the board. But now that I think about that, that doesn't really make sense. If one form of media was going to make King Kai willingly stay dead forever in tribute to the loss of the character's voice actor...wouldn't it be the anime, not the manga which has no voice acting? I don't know. Maybe I misunderstood.

Kaio's voice actor was Jôji Yanami, who only passed away in 2021. So that was definitely not the reason to have the character stay dead way back when.

And honestly, even the in-universe explanation doesn't make sense. After all, Kaio already lived in the Otherworld. Why would he have to remain dead in order to be with Goku? He sure wasn't dead back in the Saiyan arc, and Goku was there with him for a whole year...

[ZeroNeonix]

Kaio's voice actor was Jôji Yanami, who only passed away in 2021. So that was definitely not the reason to have the character stay dead way back when.

And honestly, even the in-universe explanation doesn't make sense. After all, Kaio already lived in the Otherworld. Why would he have to remain dead in order to be with Goku? He sure wasn't dead back in the Saiyan arc, and Goku was there with him for a whole year...

Well, there's a difference between living on King Kai's planet and living in Heaven. I interpret this as King Kai saying he was ready to retire.

[Vegetto95]

The Super anime generally follows Toriyama's canon and does not acknowledge any of the anime filler of Z. Resurrection F, for instance, contradicts the Hell shown in the anime filler, instead going for a more personal Hell type of thing.

I guess we're just gonna forget about the fact that the Super anime depicted MULTIPLE filler-only characters, such as Gregory and Mr. Satan's students and media girl (whatever she was lol) from the Cell Game, Caroni, Pirozhki, and Pizza?? (I feel like there might have been more, but I don't remember because I haven't watched Super since it ended five and a half years ago and have absolutely ZERO desire to ever do so again). I never understood the claim (that I've seen sooooo many people make, both on here and especially elsewhere) that the Super anime somehow follows the original manga continuity, when the Super anime clearly went out of its way at times to acknowledge Z's filler.

And the Freeza in Hell example is a bad one because Tōei's filler was AAAAAAALWAYS HORRIBLE at consistency as to how the afterlife (Hell in particular) in Dragon Ball functioned (most souls don't keep their bodies with a few exceptions but Hellbound souls absolutely don't, but then they do, but then they don't again and get the evil laundered out of them, but then they do keep their bodies again, and then they still do in GT but Hell looks completely different... ay ay ay...), that's a problem that goes back DECADES before the existence of Super, so in a way... the sheer inconsistency is actually CONSISTENT in a weird way lmao! Plus, Freeza being in the tree cocoon in his own personal hell in the Super anime was more than anything just because that was the case in the RoF movie, and the Super TV anime was more focused on doing a faithful adaptation of it than matching their previous filler material from 20+ years earlier.

[Vegetto95]

Kaio's voice actor was Jôji Yanami, who only passed away in 2021. So that was definitely not the reason to have the character stay dead way back when.

And honestly, even the in-universe explanation doesn't make sense. After all, Kaio already lived in the Otherworld. Why would he have to remain dead in order to be with Goku? He sure wasn't dead back in the Saiyan arc, and Goku was there with him for a whole year...

Just FYI, if you're gonna write Jôji with the mark above the o indicating the lengthened vowel sound (which IS accurate, and I love seeing it!), you should do so for Kaiô as well.

The "ô" (or "ō", they're both the same and are just products of different styles of Romanization, in this case Kunrei-shiki and Hepburn) literally translates to "king" (which we see/hear MANY other times in Dragon Ball, like with Gyûmaô, or Ox Demon King, Pikkoro Daimaô, or Great Demon King Piccolo, Enma Daiô, or Great King Enma, Bejîta Ô, or King Vegeta, and quite a few others), and Kaiô basically translates to "Realm King" or "World King", hence the Viz manga using "Lord of Worlds" (though really lord isn't quite as accurate as king), as opposed to FUNi's use of "King Kai" which leaves it half-translated for whatever dumb reason (which, to be fair, was absolutely par for course for FUNi's awful dub back in the 90s).

And while we're on it, if we're gonna be consistent, Goku should instead be written as Gokû or Gokū as well.