Dragon Ball Super: Manga Chapter 97 - Official Discussion Thread

[Kazuya Mishima]

And as you said, it wouldn't be so bad if it didn't go on for damn near ten 40/50-page chapters straight. The longest fights in Toriyama's original series took up maybe a half a tankōbon volume, as was the case with Jackie Chun, Tenshinhan, Piccolo Daimaō, and Majin Boo, and SOMETIMES about a full one with major battles like Piccolo, Vegeta, and Cell (with the one exception being Gokū vs. Freeza, which took up approximately two, but that was an ultra-climactic battle that had been built up to for over five whole volumes at that point)... and then you have the fights against Granolah and Gas, two characters Toyo gave us very little real reason to care about (ESPECIALLY so with fucking Gas, who kinda just... shows up and takes the spotlight out of absolutely buttfucking nowhere midway through the arc) taking up over two full volumes each. That's INSANE

Well the problem mainly with that arc that made it so drawn out and pretty much repetitive is that the fights just went around in circles.

This was a story arc that was 21 chapters long, went from half way through chapter 67 to 87 and by only chapter 72, the chain of back to back fights began. Pretty much the rest of that arc (except for the flashback though that was full of fighting) was set pretty much in the same spot with fights on rotation.

Goku fought Granolah, then Vegeta fought Granolah, then Goku fought Granolah again temporarily, then Vegeta continued to fight Granolah, then everyone kinda fought Gas, then Granolah fought Gas, Goku fought Gas, Bardock fought Gas in a flashback, Goku and Vegeta fought Gas together, then Goku just fights him again on his own, then he's fighting Gas with Granolah now.

It just went on and on. Whereas in the Cell Games saga, Goku fought Cell, Gohan fought Cell, done.

Then you've got this arc, and if it had to be done they could have easily have expanded the manga around Piccolo training Pan, the timeframe from when Hedo started work at the Red Ribbon and began to develop Cell Max and the Gammas, Videl and this training school of hers, they could have gone into more detail on how and why Broly ended up there, more on the planet Beerus side of things, they could have got other characters involved etc.

But no it's the fighting that's gonna make up months of the manga again. When everyone already knows the outcome and they're never be able to match movie level fight scenes in the manga, it's 3 to 5 minutes worth of screen time there that gets adapted over 40+ pages.

[Magnificent Ponta]

This one wasn't half bad. The most fun I've had with Dragon Ball in months.

Agreed.

This Chapter was a lot of fun, and did a good job of threading both the main Movie-derived beats and the manga intro section-specific material in teaming up the Saiyamen and the Gammas to make a Chapter that balanced good, brisk action that changed things up a few times, with nice light-hearted fun in the style of the arc so far, without moving so far in that direction that it caused any real tonal problems. It was a good blend.

As a small point of detail, we even got a point of coherency established here with the Goku-Vegeta B 'plot' (and a constant refrain in Dragon Ball Super more generally, really) with the early part of the Chapter making sure to say that for all Cell Max's power, he hasn't got used to it so he can't wield it properly yet.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Yeah, Goten and Trunks really are the best thing about this retelling. I really liked that scene of Gamma 1 and 2 realising that their designs were inspired by Goten and Trunks’ superhero outfits.

I’m really confused as to why they decided to cut out Pan’s flying scene. Maybe she learns to fly in a different way in the next couple of chapters? I hope she gets involved in the battle in some way, if that’s the case.

[Xeogran]

Maybe she learns to fly in a different way in the next couple of chapters? I hope she gets involved in the battle in some way, if that’s the case.

I was thinking that something happening to Pan might trigger Gohan to go Beast, rather than Piccolo who he knows can regenerate and is pretty durable on his own. But how and why would Pan join in the fight against Cell Max of all times?

[Yuji]

I'm guessing #100 will be the end of the retelling and the tease of the new arc. #98 should end with Orange Piccolo going giant at this rate, #99 with the Beast transformation and some of the fight, and #100 wraps things up with a tease at the end.

[Koitsukai]

It seems this retelling will last 12 chapters. One short of the Zamasu arc and pretty much as long as the ToP. That's too much for something we've already seen and in better quality.
But remember, children, you cannot complain because the next arc involves a character we've seen many times...

[super michael]

This was a excellent chapter that I enjoyed a lot. There was a lot of new additions, which wasn't in the movie.

https://www.viz.com/shonenjump/dragon-b ... ction=read
https://mangaplus.shueisha.co.jp/viewer/1018668

Goten, Trunks, Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 sure make a good team. Gotenks, Piccolo, Gohan, C18, Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 all fighting was fun.
Kuririn saving Pan was good also.

It looks like Goten and Trunks has not trained for over half a year, since they were grounded. It is no surprise, seeing how they skipped so many class and got many bad grades.
That explains why they haven't got many power ups.

[Captain Awesome]

I did not expect to enjoy this retelling as much as I have. I am far from a fan of Toyo's art but man as he hit his stride these last few chapters, with some flat out gorgeous illustrations and fun panelling.

[Rafa Fast]

Before I was thinking that this retelling wouldn't last until after chapter 98, as much as I loved the addition of Goten and Trunks having more spotlight in the fight (I think it should have been in the movie), this portion of them really took a good part of the chapter, much more than the extended fight between Gohan & Piccolo against the Gammas in 96
And now I think I've changed my mind, I can hardly imagine now Beast Gohan appearing before November

With that I think I can say bye bye to my theory of that they would try to end the retelling in October because in the same month there will be the announcement of the possible new animated production of the franchise

After they started the Moro Saga after the release of DBS Broly I really thought they would try to follow a pattern, but no, the last chapter of the Granola Saga was released 2 months after the Super Hero movie and the movie was actually supposed to be released 5 months earlier, unless they plan to release the new animated production a few weeks after the end of the retelling (maybe in December ) probably something like it was at the end of 2018 won't happen again, haha, call me stupid

[capsulecorp]

Another fun chapter! Some of the fanboy type responses I see are really disappointing though. I get it - I'm beyond curious about what will happen once we get past the retelling of Super Hero - but I'm enjoying the ride and if they need the time to figure out how they want to wrap up Super as a whole, they deserve it. So let's try to check our entitlement - by all rights we shouldn't be getting any new Dragon Ball stories at all, and its frankly shocking that we get to read anything as fun and as much in the spirit of so many of the classic works as Super Hero.

[BWri]

I'm a bit more positive on this arc. At the very least, it does try to tie itself to the beginning of the Superhero Arc by bringing into focus that the two Androids are deliberately modeled after Goten and Trunks is a fun one.

I mean, I guess next month is going to be the last chapter for this arc. Maybe? Maybe one more to finish things off. And what is the likelihood that this leads to another hiatus?

I'm thinking two more minimum and maybe a 3rd to wrap up the Goku vs Vegeta fight.

I'm still enjoying the arc. It is getting stretched out but as long as we're having fun I don't mind too much. I do love seeing the quad superhero teamup and the callbacks to the prologue, but this does really hammer home that Gohan, Dragon Ball's #1 superhero is not included in the shenanigans. That and the fact that his version of Saiyaman is not referenced even though Goten and Trunks stole his alias and shtick is a bit disappointing. Feels strangely like those DC superhero embargoes from the 00's.

[theherodjl]

If there's one thing the manga should do, is make Cell Max start to take on some of Perfect Cell's physical features to signify it's boost in power as well as to change it up a bit more from the movie. If the fight ends with Cell Max's face starting to shift into the more human-ish look of Perfect Cell but then it's eyes widen to see Gohan's makankosappo flying towards it, that would be not only awesome, but could be a neat reference to Orga's death from Godzilla 2000.

[kemuri07]

Another fun chapter! Some of the fanboy type responses I see are really disappointing though. I get it - I'm beyond curious about what will happen once we get past the retelling of Super Hero - but I'm enjoying the ride and if they need the time to figure out how they want to wrap up Super as a whole, they deserve it. So let's try to check our entitlement - by all rights we shouldn't be getting any new Dragon Ball stories at all, and its frankly shocking that we get to read anything as fun and as much in the spirit of so many of the classic works as Super Hero.

I like Super Hero, particularly the movie, but I certainly wouldn't go as far to say that it's in the spirit of the classics. It's not. Even the best of Super is still a pale comparison of the franchise at its best. More importantly, I don't care for the idea that people should be grateful that we're getting new Dragon Ball. I absolutely think its unescusable that we have to wait month to month for a story that most of us already know already. Also, DBS just simply does not have the content for a monthly comic. So the pacing is all fucked and while I agree that simply waiting for the collected paperbacks improve the pacing immensely, I think that says more about how utterly fucked Super's storytelling is. Especially when you compare it to Z.

[capsulecorp]

I like Super Hero, particularly the movie, but I certainly wouldn't go as far to say that it's in the spirit of the classics. It's not. Even the best of Super is still a pale comparison of the franchise at its best. More importantly, I don't care for the idea that people should be grateful that we're getting new Dragon Ball. I absolutely think its unescusable that we have to wait month to month for a story that most of us already know already. Also, DBS just simply does not have the content for a monthly comic. So the pacing is all fucked and while I agree that simply waiting for the collected paperbacks improve the pacing immensely, I think that says more about how utterly fucked Super's storytelling is. Especially when you compare it to Z.

Well its possible I'm just a little more cynical but I am happy to be able to enjoy Super Hero in 2023, especially the film. Maybe my expectations are lower, or maybe I just have a fuller understanding of the challenges of creating new Dragon Ball stories after so much time... but I mean, you're talking about a free comic, the idea that the choices they're making are inexcusable just feels really entitled and sort of cringy to me.

[LoganForkHands73]

Well its possible I'm just a little more cynical but I am happy to be able to enjoy Super Hero in 2023, especially the film. Maybe my expectations are lower, or maybe I just have a fuller understanding of the challenges of creating new Dragon Ball stories after so much time... but I mean, you're talking about a free comic, the idea that the choices they're making are inexcusable just feels really entitled and sort of cringy to me.

Why do you let it bother you? You can’t police people’s criticisms, man. Compared to some of the histrionic fits people regularly had back when earlier arcs were being published, the criticism here has been mild at best.

I’d personally go a step further and say that the manga has been dragging its feet for a long time now, and T&T had several months of lead time to figure out the direction the series would go. Seeing Trunks and Goten’s high school adventures was promising, but it was just a precursor to a ploddingly-paced retelling of a movie that came out months ago. I wouldn’t say it’s inexcusable, but I’d call it a waste of creative energy at the bare minimum. It’s not even a bad retelling, there are plenty of neat original moments sprinkled in, but I feel pretty apathetic about it overall.