When will Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced?

[Dr. Casey]

You know, people say they their performances are so compromised, as if they're so much harder to listen to than in the original run. And I find that to be greatly exaggerated.

I'm not familiar with their performances specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised if people exaggerate the severity of the change due to the fact that we live in an incredibly Doomer ageist society that exaggerates the rate of aging for every single post-20s decade. I like how people in their 30s are supposed to have zero alcohol tolerance compared to the good old days of being 20 years old, but a couple of months ago (I'm 36) I had more alcohol than I'd ever had before and sobered up within a couple of hours with no hangover at all. Still also waiting for that horrible collapse in energy that happens to all elderly people in their 30s which hasn't happened yet despite being 2/3 of the way through the decade. And I sighed when playing Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night recently where a character who's 78 has the weakest, frailest, shakiest, most stereotypical 'old woman' voice humanly possible. In reality people in their 70s tend to have voices that are within the range of normalcy rather than being explicitly weak and shaky (even if not quite as crisp and clear as when young), with the frail, shaky, hoarse, stereotypical 'old person' voice used in media more commonly found in sickly people in their 90s... but eh, everyone who's 60+ is the same, right? I like how Rab in Dragon Quest 11 uses a cane even though that's rare for people in their 60s and he has even less reason to use one than most since he's a physically fit martial artist.

[Adamant]

You know, people say they their performances are so compromised, as if they're so much harder to listen to than in the original run.

While Horikawa wasn't exactly BAD in Kai, if you compare his delivery of the same line from the same scene in Z and Kai, the quality difference is crazy. And that was nearly 15 years ago, he's not exactly got any younger since then.

[JulieYBM]

You know, people say they their performances are so compromised, as if they're so much harder to listen to than in the original run. And I find that to be greatly exaggerated.

I'm not familiar with their performances specifically, but I wouldn't be surprised if people exaggerate the severity of the change due to the fact that we live in an incredibly Doomer ageist society that exaggerates the rate of aging for every single post-20s decade. I like how people in their 30s are supposed to have zero alcohol tolerance compared to the good old days of being 20 years old, but a couple of months ago (I'm 36) I had more alcohol than I'd ever had before and sobered up within a couple of hours with no hangover at all. Still also waiting for that horrible collapse in energy that happens to all elderly people in their 30s which hasn't happened yet despite being 2/3 of the way through the decade. And I sighed when playing Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night recently where a character who's 78 has the weakest, frailest, shakiest, most stereotypical 'old woman' voice humanly possible. In reality people in their 70s tend to have voices that are within the range of normalcy rather than being explicitly weak and shaky (even if not quite as crisp and clear as when young), with the frail, shaky, hoarse, stereotypical 'old person' voice used in media more commonly found in sickly people in their 90s... but eh, everyone who's 60+ is the same, right? I like how Rab in Dragon Quest 11 uses a cane even though that's rare for people in their 60s and he has even less reason to use one than most since he's a physically fit martial artist.

Congratulations, you're in an oddly decent place. Not everyone is so lucky!

A lot of people in their thirties do, in fact, have a noticeable change in their health and stamina compared to their twenties. A lot of people in their sixties and seventies do, in fact, have different voices—especially when they scream all the time (hi, Japanese voice actors who do action cartoons).

[Dr. Casey]

Congratulations, you're in an oddly decent place. Not everyone is so lucky!

A lot of people in their thirties do, in fact, have a noticeable change in their health and stamina compared to their twenties. A lot of people in their sixties and seventies do, in fact, have different voices—especially when they scream all the time (hi, Japanese voice actors who do action cartoons).

Hah, I knew you'd post something snide and obnoxious before I posted that. No shit people in their 60s and 70s have some degree of change in their vocal quality, I acknowledged that myself - it's just nowhere near as severe on average (key words) as depicted in many forms of media. Changes in vocal quality can make a difference when doing screaming scenes in anime, but on average (pointing this out again since you tend to strawman people) isn't that dramatic for just regular everyday conversation. I know you have trouble with nuance, though, instead preferring to be as extremist, combative, and reactionary as humanly possible at all times, so I would strongly prefer to just not interact with you. (I added her to my ignore list so hopefully she won't waste her time writing another post)

[coola]

Unfortunately, since Kai days, i really don't like "heavy smoker" voice Horikawa uses for Vegeta, i know it's probably just me, but still...

[Cure Dragon 255]

What is in poor taste here? I'm criticizing their performance, not them personally. Whichever way you look it, Dragon Ball is a product and if parts of the product regress or fall short, there is nothing wrong with taking a critical look at it. Consumers shouldn't be blinded for it's faults, just because it's Dragon Ball. Doesn't matter whether it's animation, soundtrack, voice acting or writing.

You are using the faults in their performances to follow Nozawa and Horikawa like a vulture and have them replaced. You can criticize anything all you want but you didnt do that, you are using the fact that they are aging and their performances have degraded to make Yet Another Thread about "how their performances arent what they used to be" and "Toei should find a replacement" soon.

When actors have delivered a certain standard and they're slipping off to the point where it compromises the characters, yes I do think they should be recasted. Not a single actor is "above" the product. If the drawings of the manga of anime suddenly turn out worse, they will replace or fix up the drawings, like they did for some of the Blu Ray releases of DBS.
Same should go for every talent involved in the show. I don't care whether it's due to aging, smoking or any other reason. When a character sounds so strained, it's a detriment to the performance since it alters the emotion of the scene.

It's the same problem some singers have, which some solve by singing in a lower key. I don't think that will work as well in voice acting though. (Although I do think Nozawa's SSJ4 speaking voice was/is relatively easier to pull off)

Why should we continue to have worse and worse performances? Just because we like the actor? I don't think anime production is a charity.

If Totoyaro somehow broke his hand, causing his drawings to substantially worsen, should we just accept those drawings, since he's been doing it for such a long while?

I keep telling you its not about you or even me, its about what Toei and Toriyama want. You keep doing this awful "Nozawa and Horikawa should be replaced" thing and If you insist on doing this I will keep calling you out on it.

Oh and the Ginyu Force was not replaced because "Their voices are old and awful now" but because they could not pay them anymore. Their price range was outside Kai's budget.

[Jord]

You are using the faults in their performances to follow Nozawa and Horikawa like a vulture and have them replaced. You can criticize anything all you want but you didnt do that, you are using the fact that they are aging and their performances have degraded to make Yet Another Thread about "how their performances arent what they used to be" and "Toei should find a replacement" soon.

When actors have delivered a certain standard and they're slipping off to the point where it compromises the characters, yes I do think they should be recasted. Not a single actor is "above" the product. If the drawings of the manga of anime suddenly turn out worse, they will replace or fix up the drawings, like they did for some of the Blu Ray releases of DBS.
Same should go for every talent involved in the show. I don't care whether it's due to aging, smoking or any other reason. When a character sounds so strained, it's a detriment to the performance since it alters the emotion of the scene.

It's the same problem some singers have, which some solve by singing in a lower key. I don't think that will work as well in voice acting though. (Although I do think Nozawa's SSJ4 speaking voice was/is relatively easier to pull off)

Why should we continue to have worse and worse performances? Just because we like the actor? I don't think anime production is a charity.

If Totoyaro somehow broke his hand, causing his drawings to substantially worsen, should we just accept those drawings, since he's been doing it for such a long while?

I keep telling you its not about you or even me, its about what Toei and Toriyama want. You keep doing this awful "Nozawa and Horikawa should be replaced" thing and If you insist on doing this I will keep calling you out on it.

Oh and the Ginyu Force was not replaced because "Their voices are old and awful now" but because they could not pay them anymore. Their price range was outside Kai's budget.

Fine by me. "Call me out" for having the opinion that they're not up to par anymore. Thats my opinion and I stand by it. If calling someone out on their opinion is your forte, go for it. And age does play a factor when voicing a character but it depends on the character whether the voice still works or not. Older characters like Roshi or Kaio dont't change much when the VA's voice ages.

A youthful character like Goku needs a youthful, energetic voice. I don't care how old the VA is, whether it's a male or female actor. I care about whether the voice works/fits the character and gives the vibe of the previous actor.

To me, it was hard to listen to Nozawa trying to do the kid Goku in the Kakarot voice and straining her voice. Which is a shame since I really liked her Kid Goku/Goten voice.

Voice replacements in general are hit or miss in DB though. The new VA for Bulma is doing amazing while I still think they haven't found a great replacement for Daisuke Gori.

[Cure Dragon 255]

When actors have delivered a certain standard and they're slipping off to the point where it compromises the characters, yes I do think they should be recasted. Not a single actor is "above" the product. If the drawings of the manga of anime suddenly turn out worse, they will replace or fix up the drawings, like they did for some of the Blu Ray releases of DBS.
Same should go for every talent involved in the show. I don't care whether it's due to aging, smoking or any other reason. When a character sounds so strained, it's a detriment to the performance since it alters the emotion of the scene.

It's the same problem some singers have, which some solve by singing in a lower key. I don't think that will work as well in voice acting though. (Although I do think Nozawa's SSJ4 speaking voice was/is relatively easier to pull off)

Why should we continue to have worse and worse performances? Just because we like the actor? I don't think anime production is a charity.

If Totoyaro somehow broke his hand, causing his drawings to substantially worsen, should we just accept those drawings, since he's been doing it for such a long while?

I keep telling you its not about you or even me, its about what Toei and Toriyama want. You keep doing this awful "Nozawa and Horikawa should be replaced" thing and If you insist on doing this I will keep calling you out on it.

Oh and the Ginyu Force was not replaced because "Their voices are old and awful now" but because they could not pay them anymore. Their price range was outside Kai's budget.

Fine by me. "Call me out" for having the opinion that they're not up to par anymore. Thats my opinion and I stand by it. If calling someone out on their opinion is your forte, go for it. And age does play a factor when voicing a character but it depends on the character whether the voice still works or not. Older characters like Roshi or Kaio dont't change much when the VA's voice ages.

A youthful character like Goku needs a youthful, energetic voice. I don't care how old the VA is, whether it's a male or female actor. I care about whether the voice works/fits the character and gives the vibe of the previous actor.

To me, it was hard to listen to Nozawa trying to do the kid Goku in the Kakarot voice and straining her voice. Which is a shame since I really liked her Kid Goku/Goten voice.

Voice replacements in general are hit or miss in DB though. The new VA for Bulma is doing amazing while I still think they haven't found a great replacement for Daisuke Gori.

That is fine and dandy like sour candy but you made this thread about wanting to replace them. If you had made a thread about how you feel Nozawa and or Horikawa are not up to par anymore, I would not have objected AT ALL. I might have even agreed! Opinions are all about how they are presented and the wording.

Okay: I am sad to say but I dont feel Nozawa and Horikawa are up to par anymore.
NOT OKAY: When will Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced?

Which even if you didnt intend to sounds like

When will those two skeletons be replaced? They sound like SHIT.

And you keep forgetting... or trying to backpedal the fact the thread's premise by its title is "When will Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced?" NOT "I just dont like their performances anymore."

[super michael]

Voice actors that is something I have no problem and I don't complain. I don't have any problem with Nozawa and Horikawa.
I hope their health stays great and can continue being voice actors.

As for health declining in their 30s, I can safely say that isn't true at all.

[Dr. Casey]

Voice actors that is something I don't complain. I don't have any problem with Nozawa and Horikawa.
I hope their health stays great and can continue being voice actors.

As for health declining in their 30s, I can safely say that isn't true at all.

Yeah, I mean... I get that aging is highly variable and that not everyone is lucky (though it's also questionable whether I'm in an 'oddly decent place' since I've had chronic fatigue issues since my teens that have always put a major dent in my functionality and made it difficult to keep up with everything that needs keeping up with - said problem is no worse now than it was at 18-19 though), but the problem with ageist societal attitudes is that it acts as though as aging isn't variable. As though negative outcomes aren't merely one of the possible outcomes, but the only trajectory in existence.

And sorry if I get tired of every Millennial from their late 20s to early 40s acting as though they're old, ugly, weak, past their prime, life is shit because they're so ancient, etc. Yes aging is variable and some people lose their looks at an early age or swiftly start feeling older and weaker and less healthy and I wouldn't invalidate anyone who genuinely feels as though they've significantly gone downhill in some way (though strictly speaking that's likely for reasons besides aging, per se - I had less energy in 2006 as a 19 year old than did my 83 year old grandmothers but that obviously wasn't the result of the aging process), but I still think the overall negative perception of each decade of life doesn't accurately depict the average member of said groups. I remember someone online saying "65 to 75 is the age range where you forget your name and have to have people change your diaper," which... no it isn't (Disclaimer: I am aware this does apply to a small percentage of people in this age range, occasionally even younger - it just shouldn't be portrayed as the typical experience or a common outcome). Hell, even the majority of the 75-85 range doesn't qualify for that... 82 is the average age for an Alzheimer's diagnosis (which make up 70 percent of dementia cases), so what that guy describes is more like 87ish.

And yeah, I do find it annoying how in anime, every person above the age of 60 ever speaks with a weak, hoarse, sickly, shaky voice. I never claimed that vocal aging doesn't influence one's ability to perform certain types of acting, that's not my forte and I have no idea, but most (keyword) old people in their 60s, 70s, and even 80s have pretty ordinary voices for just regular conversation. More just a mildly modified version of their young person voice, the highly stereotyped "Old person" voice doesn't really become common until nearing 90.

[GhostEmperorX]

Okay: I am sad to say but I dont feel Nozawa and Horikawa are up to par anymore.
NOT OKAY: When will Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced?

Ditto. One of these things is clearly not the other.
Thus the "opinion" defence goes straight out the window since that's not even what's in question here.
Kudos for cutting straight to the point.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

They wont be replaced until they literally cant voice act anymore. Not until YOU decide you stopped liking their performances. I didnt want to be mean but these threads are constant and in poor taste.

What is in poor taste here? I'm criticizing their performance, not them personally. Whichever way you look it, Dragon Ball is a product and if parts of the product regress or fall short, there is nothing wrong with taking a critical look at it. Consumers shouldn't be blinded for it's faults, just because it's Dragon Ball. Doesn't matter whether it's animation, soundtrack, voice acting or writing.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, however I think that the "poor taste" comment refers to how these post almost come across as a hypothetical constant asking of "is Nozawa dead yet?"

[Cure Dragon 255]

They wont be replaced until they literally cant voice act anymore. Not until YOU decide you stopped liking their performances. I didnt want to be mean but these threads are constant and in poor taste.

What is in poor taste here? I'm criticizing their performance, not them personally. Whichever way you look it, Dragon Ball is a product and if parts of the product regress or fall short, there is nothing wrong with taking a critical look at it. Consumers shouldn't be blinded for it's faults, just because it's Dragon Ball. Doesn't matter whether it's animation, soundtrack, voice acting or writing.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, however I think that the "poor taste" comment refers to how these post almost come across as a hypothetical constant asking of "is Nozawa dead yet?"

You win the grand prize, its nothing but its better than... you know.

[Jord]

I'm not hoping Nozawa dies soon but her portrayal of Goku has been going down quality wise, as I mentioned before. Perhaps Goku could be recasted where Nozawa gets a role as Brand ambassador, just like how Nintendo recently did with the voice of Mario.

[DB1984]

No AI ever. I do not want AI to succeed, like Bill Gates clearly does.

[Thanos]

Unfortunately, since Kai days, i really don't like "heavy smoker" voice Horikawa uses for Vegeta, i know it's probably just me, but still...

He's not putting it on, that's just sadly the consequence of years of heavy smoking to the man's voice. He's probably not doing anything differently in his performance from how he has always done it but it just comes out differently now. At least he is still healthy.

[Someoneimportant]

Gonna tell you the deal. You sometimes have to start thinking about these things from a different perspective when ideas such as "When" will Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced come into the picture, it's a bad sign from experience you are treating this as if every bad decision that could be made in the world is an inevitability. But it ain't

What if the thread was lets say "Could" Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced instead?

Idk pretty simple for me to figure out. NO

DB is over folks! The story has been told and whatever passion and quality awareness was left in it is long gone in the brand. I finally think I know why stuff like Dragon Ball Super SUCKS so bad on a fundamental level. On paper, it's not that bad. There are some ok things about it but you sort of after a while start thinking about things while watching it like... Why is the sequel to DBZ so much worse in every conceivable way imaginable? A pretty good question to be asking I must say, because you can easily tell something is off, if you have ears, eyes, and a brain to tell you that what you are watching is bad despite YEARS of downtime between the two.

Someone should have had enough self-awareness to figure out how to do a revival correctly and completely blow away DB and DBZ. I know this could have been achieved but somebody just wanted to put out a poorly thought-out product with recycled ideas and we got what we got. TRASH. There is no excuse. It shouldn't be that abysmal. If they HAD to bring DB back from the grave they should have done it right. And tbh they didn't have to do it at all. The story ended in 1996 when the manga concluded. This? new shit they serving to pass it off as the real deal? nah, it ain't it chief. Go back and figure out what made the original magic to begin with.

So yeah when I hear constant brain rot on Twitter wishing for Super to continue or people being excited about that Daima shit, it just gets a little depressing. Super sucked and so why should anyone with two brain cells think they will suddenly do it right the next time?

Ideas like when will Nozawa and Horikawa be replaced are also completely at odds with reality, if you care about quality at all. They will NEVER be replaced because the real Dragon Ball is gone and it ain't coming back. Get it, please. I can't explain it better than this. They will always be part of DB.

[BootyCheeksJohnson]

I finally think I know why stuff like Dragon Ball Super SUCKS so bad on a fundamental level. On paper, it's not that bad. There are some ok things about it but you sort of after a while start thinking about things while watching it like... Why is the sequel to DBZ so much worse in every conceivable way imaginable? A pretty good question to be asking I must say, because you can easily tell something is off, if you have ears, eyes, and a brain to tell you that what you are watching is bad despite YEARS of downtime between the two.

This line of thinking makes it seem like Z didn't have a horribly rushed production with obvious animation quality drops between studios as early as the Saiyan arc. Or the poor quality of storytelling seen in the filler content like the Garlic Jr. Arc. And, I don't even think that Super is great by any means.

[DragonBallFoodie]

I didn't know people were unhappy with seiyuu Horikawa.

[JulieYBM]

I didn't know people were unhappy with seiyuu Horikawa.

His performances have become really flat and boring over the years, which I think is a shame because the performances that he was delivering 30+ years ago really added to the character and elevated what would be a pretty boring character in some stretches of the story to a higher level.