Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Noah wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:41 pm
I remember the former member "Doctor." here in these threads saying that Nº17 from the Universe Survival arc was out of character compared to how he was in the Cell arc, does anyone agree with that?
I feel that he's a bit different for sure, but not that quite.
I noticed that change in character when I watched the Universe Survival Saga, and this might be a hot take, but he's kinda boring as a responsible adult (whatever "adult" entails for him and 18 since they're cyborgs that were originally teens) since he no longer has that devil may care attitude he had in the Cell arc that made him fun; which does make sense as he has responsibilities now, but they made him far more stoic in the process, and more boring as a result.
Except- He noticeably starts acting more like his old self when he's around 18, which I thought was a nice touch considering they are siblings.
Noah wrote: ↑Wed Jan 03, 2024 3:41 pm
I remember the former member "Doctor." here in these threads saying that Nº17 from the Universe Survival arc was out of character compared to how he was in the Cell arc, does anyone agree with that?
I feel that he's a bit different for sure, but not that quite.
17 in Cell saga was a relaxed guy who wanted to kill Goku for shits and giggles and was clearly the one most interested in fighting between him, 16 and 18.
In ToP he doesn't want to fight as he would rather take care of that island, for some reason talks like he doesn't really understand human emotions even though that was never implied to be the case at any point, and is suddenly pragmatic about fighting when he used to be just another DB character who wants fights to be 1vs1 (And ironically it's funny to see Goku bitching at him for interrupting Ribrianne, when Goku tried that against king Piccolo back in vanilla DB, and against Recoome in Namek), and is a lot more stoic, likely as a consequence of this weird "I don't really get human emotions" angle.
While some of the changes can be chalked up to him maturing, others are hard to say it's the case without really stretching it.
So yeah, I feel like he's basically someone else.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am
My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.
FortuneSSJ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 1:55 pm
ROF would be much better received if it got DBS Broly production quality
I think most people had story issues with ROF rather than animation issues.
A lot of people disliked it at premise of Frieza being brought back
A lot of people hated the explanation for how he got stronger
Some hated how quickly Gohan went down, seeing it as a bleak reminder of the character's fall from grace (I think Super at least somewhat salvaged it by recontextualing it into a character turning point for Gohan)
Many really hated the retcon that Beerus told Frieza to destroy planet Vegeta
A number of fans hated how Vegeta didn't get to kill Frieza
And I think nearly everyone hated the Whis Ex Machina
FortuneSSJ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 1:55 pm
ROF would be much better received if it got DBS Broly production quality
I think most people had story issues with ROF rather than animation issues.
A lot of people disliked it at premise of Frieza being brought back
A lot of people hated the explanation for how he got stronger
Some hated how quickly Gohan went down, seeing it as a bleak reminder of the character's fall from grace (I think Super at least somewhat salvaged it by recontextualing it into a character turning point for Gohan)
Many really hated the retcon that Beerus told Frieza to destroy planet Vegeta
A number of fans hated how Vegeta didn't get to kill Frieza
And I think nearly everyone hated the Whis Ex Machina
This was stablished on Battle of Gods.
Spoiler:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Gog wrote:The cell saga/android saga is the worst thing Akira Toriyama ever made. And nothing has ever actually managed to come close to it, after it. Even the terrible asspulls in the FT saga, weren't as bad as that. But of course this is all my opinion.
You've just made a new best friend.
Marz wrote: ↑Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm
"Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"
This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same.
FortuneSSJ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 1:55 pm
ROF would be much better received if it got DBS Broly production quality
Well, sure, but the story issues would still be a reason to complain lol.
Not like the fights in RoF itself looked bad or anything, it's just kinda like the previous movies where the fights look cool but how the story got to those fights was kinda boring, or at least for me.
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:07 pm
This was stablished on Battle of Gods.
It's a weird plot point that Toriyama referenced in both of these movies, then, it wasn't even referenced in Broly, which does show Freeza nuking planet Vegeta lol.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am
My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.
Basaku wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:07 pm
when Goku tried that against king Piccolo back in vanilla DB
What are you getting at with this comment? I'm referring to the use of "vanilla" specifically.
And I think nearly everyone hated the Whis Ex Machina
I honestly didn't have an issue with it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Another one: SSJ3 Goku vs Beerus is one of worst fights in DB Movies.
We have Goku using SSJ3, which is his strongest form at that point, vs a God of Destruction. I expected something cool. It's also the first fight in the first movie we got in years. What we got was an underwhelming fighting choreography without any background music.
Despite the art/anime problems of the controversial DBS episode 5, the anime still did that fight better.
Basaku wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 3:07 pm
when Goku tried that against king Piccolo back in vanilla DB
What are you getting at with this comment? I'm referring to the use of "vanilla" specifically.
Cant figure who wrote that vanilla post but it wasn't me But the OP probably borrowed the gaming term for 'base game', in the case DB without the Z 'add-on'
I don't know how that happened but I was quoting lukmendes
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Moro arc was mostly Toyo with Toriyama's supervision/corrections/revisions. For Granolah though, Toriyama wrote the main general plot outline like with previous arcs (Future Trunks, TOP)
Super Hero section is based on Toriyama's full movie script
ABED wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:12 pm
I don't know how that happened but I was quoting lukmendes
Basaku got it right, it's just how I call DB before Z by using that gaming term.
Basaku wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:52 am
Moro arc was mostly Toyo with Toriyama's supervision/corrections/revisions. For Granolah though, Toriyama wrote the main general plot outline like with previous arcs (Future Trunks, TOP)
Super Hero section is based on Toriyama's full movie script
Really? I always got the feeling that Granolah's arc was mainly Toyotaro but with some Toriyama ideas (Like having only two dragon balls with no recharge time).
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am
My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.
Basaku wrote: ↑Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:52 am
Moro arc was mostly Toyo with Toriyama's supervision/corrections/revisions. For Granolah though, Toriyama wrote the main general plot outline like with previous arcs (Future Trunks, TOP)
Super Hero section is based on Toriyama's full movie script
Toyo wrote the original outline, and then Toriyama went over it and added loads more to it. He was the one who came up with the Heeters amongst some other things.
FortuneSSJ wrote: ↑Sat Jan 06, 2024 5:31 pm
Another one: SSJ3 Goku vs Beerus is one of worst fights in DB Movies.
We have Goku using SSJ3, which is his strongest form at that point, vs a God of Destruction. I expected something cool. It's also the first fight in the first movie we got in years. What we got was an underwhelming fighting choreography without any background music.
Despite the art/anime problems of the controversial DBS episode 5, the anime still did that fight better.
1/2 Agreed. The animation is not the best, not the worst because RoF exists, they look too greasy and shiny, and compared to Fusion Reborn's SS3, this one looks like a youtube video made by some fan who just started using photoshop.
However, the actual choreography worked for me. It's a fingerflick fight, a humiliating bout so brief it doesn't even deserve music, it ends before the music can warm up. The point was extremely well sold: I'm out of your league and I'm not even trying.
I re-watched it thinking it might've lasted too much but it didn't, even taking into account by now Beerus can do that to SSB Goku.
But the OP probably borrowed the gaming term for 'base game', in the case DB without the Z 'add-on' 
