Anyone else disappointed with the whole new cell max, gohan beast, orange piccolo etc

[LoganForkHands73]

Toriyama is no stranger to excessive designs despite some arguments to the contrary so I'm kinda here for it as well. While their implementation into the story is a whole topic in itself, I can reflect on the designs and how well they're utilised overall.

Orange Piccolo is a great example of a hulking, monstrous transformation used effectively, especially from a cinematic angle. That scene of Gamma #2 impotently flailing at a completely rigid, unmoving Piccolo wouldn't have been nearly as effective if he wasn't towering over the android superhero. The ominous Rembrandt lighting when Gamma looks up at this behemoth and realises how badly he's fucked up is the cherry on the cake. There are only a couple aspects of the form I'm not so keen about. First, although the transformation has to be a radical change, I do wish Piccolo kept some of his original facial structure, the square lantern jaw is maybe a bit too much. Second, his arms being a different shade to the rest of his skin is weird.

Gohan Beast obviously cribs from Gohan's original Super Saiyan 2 transformation. There are definitely some design shortcomings, but like Orange Piccolo, Beast is overall presented in a cool and effective way. The directors seemed to understand that Beast is a form that looks best when it's shot from a distance, as that naturally emphasises the similarities to the younger Gohan's SS2 form, looking tiny yet invincible against a much larger foe. Up close, the massive platinum hairdo definitely looks goofier. If we're talking excess, it doesn't get much more excessive than this. The buckets of fanart and the recent official art from Toyotaro have given the form more cred in my eyes.

As always, I'd love to read more insight into the design process behind the forms and who exactly came up with which ideas. I used to be skeptical of this, but it's entirely possible that Beast was an intentional Chekhov Gun calling back to Gohan's wish for a new ultimate form way back in the Universe Survival arc, which was never fulfilled in the anime. If so, no doubt a suggestion from the higher-ups at Toei, because there's no way that Toriyama would care about that detail. I think it's unlikely that Toriyama has written anything at all for Gohan since the Resurrection 'F' movie.

[Mr Baggins]

At the end of the day, all this shit is nostalgia bait. Dragon Ball ended in 1995. Sequel/spin-off Dragon Ball naturally has to riff on its progenitor to some degree; otherwise just make something else, which is exactly what the author had been doing occasionally in the years following its conclusion.

The distinction lies in whether it's cheaply or effectively written, and if there's enough tonal likeness to make it fun and interesting in the same way the original run was fun and interesting. Since Toriyama, as the creator, has the best grasp of that, it tends to be the difference between the pre and post 2013 post-DB eras.

I like Orange Piccolo because he's a hideous monster. He's there to look menacing, to act as a foil to the Gammas who are gallant superheroes but really only superficially. I would have liked Gohan Beast if that form's role in the story was as flippant as its design, else it pretty much is just a straightforward throwback to the iconography of the Cell Games without the substance. I don't like Cell Max because he and most of his climax are as retrogressed as retro gets.

Super Hero is an interesting case study because it has a whole spectrum of good and bad execution in this regard. But to say that it's all bad, I think, is missing the forest for the trees.