What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

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MasenkoHA
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What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jan 03, 2024 7:18 am

Applies to Dende too once he became Earth's New Kami. What exactly can a planet Kami do? They both created Dragon Balls but that has more to do with being members of the Namekian dragon clan than being Kamis. In anime only material that got retconned out by the manga Kaio claimed that Vegeta's Kami sent a meteor shower to destroy planet Vegeta so I assume earth's Kami would have similar abilities.

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by Hugo Boss » Wed Jan 03, 2024 7:44 am

One that comes to mind is the ability of granting the physical body to characters that went to the afterlife.

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by theherodjl » Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:45 am

So far, Kami in the manga & anime have been shown to; see & move anywhere on their respective planet, teleport to and back from the afterlife, know if a person possesses good or evil in their minds, possess some degree of clairvoyance, use some kind of electric attack to stun/hurt opponents, restore the strength & health of individuals, enter & control the bodies of beings of their world, and recreate the moon if it happens to get heavily damaged or outright destroyed. It's not a bad set of abilities, TBH. If Kami & Dende only had greater Ki, they could be genuinely useful in fights if they used their abilities in conjunction with the typical fighting method of DB.
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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:22 am

I assume being a link between the living and the dead realm (which has its limits, considering Piccolo was preventing souls from moving on or something like that), seeing what's going down on Earth, and perhaps having some type of power to intervene, that's unclear.

It's not clear which things are namekian-based abilities and which are kami-based. I guess recreating the moon is a Kami ability because it helps keeping Earth still going as it is, even though... the planet went like 5 years without a moon.

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by Lukmendes » Wed Jan 03, 2024 8:38 pm

Being a Kami gives one the powers to watch over Earth, since Kami was paying attention to Goku's and king Piccolo's fight, and it's not limited to just "big" stuff too, since he noticed Cell arriving on Earth and was feeling uneasy about him for four/three years... He also seems capable of sensing the powers of characters in a way the other characters can't, since he vaguely says that Cell was "even better" than the androids.

I also wonder how exactly his ability to teleport to the Other World works, since in saiyan saga he decided to wait until Goku arrives and sense his ki to teleport, almost like instant transmission...

Essentially though, there's definitely some sort of super sensing that other characters lack, something Dende inherited since in Super's manga, he knew about Uub, and in Super Hero, he was paying attention to what Piccolo was up to.

Piccolo also used to be able to sense things better, since thought to himself that the reason Piccolo could even tell that Shin was divine was thanks to Piccolo previously being Kami, although that one is something Toriyama forgot Piccolo can do.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 12, 2022 12:08 am My man, all Goku had to do was go SSJ3 and shock Vegeta so much the M on his head would have turned into an L and Buu would have never happened.

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jan 04, 2024 3:52 am

Koitsukai wrote: Wed Jan 03, 2024 10:22 am I assume being a link between the living and the dead realm (which has its limits, considering Piccolo was preventing souls from moving on or something like that)
In Piccolo's case it was because he and his children were Mazoku and as explained by Karin, those killed by Mazoku were doomed to be restless spirits unable to pass onto Next World. After he reincarnated he lost his status as a Mazoku (explaining how the new Piccolo was less evil) and people killed by Piccolo i.e Raditz could go to the next world.

, seeing what's going down on Earth, and perhaps having some type of power to intervene, that's unclear.
Right, obviously people pray to him but what exactly can he do? Cure illnesses? Bless marriages? Protect areas from natural disasters? Cause natural disasters?
It's not clear which things are namekian-based abilities and which are kami-based. I guess recreating the moon is a Kami ability because it helps keeping Earth still going as it is, even though... the planet went like 5 years without a moon.
He also seemingly had the ability to prevent Goku's tail from regrowing but I think Toriyama forgot that (possibly on purpose) because Gohan's tail only grew back once in the manga and Vegeta's tail never grew back and neither of them needed divine intervention

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by Mireya » Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:26 pm

Someone once brought up in another forum why didn't they wish for the Saiyan's space pods to be destroyed, which would kill them. But I think Kami can't influence things as long as it's above his power, not even indirectly killing ppl above him. Shenlong couldn't turn the androids into humans, but could remove their bombs. Turning them into humans revolved meshing with their power as androids, while the bombs were more like an external factor. So it'll imo hugely depend on his powers. The Porunga also couldn't bring Goku against his will, for example. So I'm thinking those are the limits.

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by Jord » Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:40 am

Mireya wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:26 pm Someone once brought up in another forum why didn't they wish for the Saiyan's space pods to be destroyed, which would kill them. But I think Kami can't influence things as long as it's above his power, not even indirectly killing ppl above him. Shenlong couldn't turn the androids into humans, but could remove their bombs. Turning them into humans revolved meshing with their power as androids, while the bombs were more like an external factor. So it'll imo hugely depend on his powers. The Porunga also couldn't bring Goku against his will, for example. So I'm thinking those are the limits.
There are a lot of potential wishes they could have done to prevent the Saiyans from reaching earth. They could wish for the space pod fuel to run out, leaving them stuck in space for example. Or overwrite their course so they head into the sun.
Good points about the Androids as well. If he could remove the bombs, he could have removed all cybernetic enhancements.

When you have a wish-granting gimmick in the series, you really have to come up with arbitrary rules.

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Re: What is the extent of Kami-sama's abilities as uh Kami

Post by Mireya » Thu Jan 11, 2024 1:14 pm

Jord wrote: Thu Jan 11, 2024 5:40 am
Mireya wrote: Wed Jan 10, 2024 7:26 pm Someone once brought up in another forum why didn't they wish for the Saiyan's space pods to be destroyed, which would kill them. But I think Kami can't influence things as long as it's above his power, not even indirectly killing ppl above him. Shenlong couldn't turn the androids into humans, but could remove their bombs. Turning them into humans revolved meshing with their power as androids, while the bombs were more like an external factor. So it'll imo hugely depend on his powers. The Porunga also couldn't bring Goku against his will, for example. So I'm thinking those are the limits.
There are a lot of potential wishes they could have done to prevent the Saiyans from reaching earth. They could wish for the space pod fuel to run out, leaving them stuck in space for example. Or overwrite their course so they head into the sun.
Good points about the Androids as well. If he could remove the bombs, he could have removed all cybernetic enhancements.

When you have a wish-granting gimmick in the series, you really have to come up with arbitrary rules.
Yes. I have the impression that Toriyama was bugged with the obvious question of "why not have Shenlong wish for the Saiyans to die" and then had to come with the limitations of the creator, which is a very valid reason. Though it also creates other possibilities like we mentioned and since DB isn't a complex strategic series, they won't explore that too much. I mean, Kuririn could have thrown a Kienzan when Freeza was blinded by the Taiyoken but he didn't lol, he screamed for Vegeta to attack. When there're so many haxxed abilities, it's kinda unavoidable some potential explorations that seem sensible won't be employed. I think HxH is a series that deals with it, but the author has to go into complex details to avoid haxed powers, putting a lot of rules.

But I still question if even in-universe, it could be done. Maybe destroying the spaceship or wishing them near the sun would also be over Shenlong's abilities since it'd indirectly lead to their deaths and it would have to oppose their, how can I call it, "will of living" like when Goku had the will to choose not to be teleported to Earth and stay on Yardrat.

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