Could this be the reason they don't continue DB Super series yet?

[MasenkoHA]

I think filler is only bad when it's intrusive.

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Dragon Ball has never really had a problem with filler episodes or arcs as much as it has a problem with padding. Stuff like the Garlic Jr arc and the Afterlife Tournament is whatever, but the ways Toei finds to stretch out the Goku and Freeza fight is excuriating.

[JulieYBM]

I think filler is only bad when it's intrusive.

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Dragon Ball has never really had a problem with filler episodes or arcs as much as it has a problem with padding. Stuff like the Garlic Jr arc and the Afterlife Tournament is whatever, but the ways Toei finds to stretch out the Goku and Freeza fight is excuriating.

Thirteen year old Julie should've know she was bisexual when she bought the Hong Kong bootleg DVDs of the Virtual World arc and was absolutely captured by the episode where Anzu fucks a penguin man.

God, I wish that Toei Animation had just interrupted the arcs adapted from the comic to do original plotlines. BLEACH and NARUTO did that really well.

[ABED]

I think filler is only bad when it's intrusive.

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Dragon Ball has never really had a problem with filler episodes or arcs as much as it has a problem with padding. Stuff like the Garlic Jr arc and the Afterlife Tournament is whatever, but the ways Toei finds to stretch out the Goku and Freeza fight is excuriating.

The stretches in the fight aren't bad. The issue was the boring cutaways to whatever Bulma and Chichi were up to.

I'm fine with filler as I'm not in a mad dash to get to an end of the story.

[MasenkoHA]

I think filler is only bad when it's intrusive.

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Dragon Ball has never really had a problem with filler episodes or arcs as much as it has a problem with padding. Stuff like the Garlic Jr arc and the Afterlife Tournament is whatever, but the ways Toei finds to stretch out the Goku and Freeza fight is excuriating.

The stretches in the fight aren't bad. The issue was the boring cutaways to whatever Bulma and Chichi were up to.

I'm fine with filler as I'm not in a mad dash to get to an end of the story.

To each their own. I didn't mind the back on earth stuff because it was a nice break from Goku charging up the spirit bomb for 20 minutes.

Like, I actually think Kai is worse off for not being able to diverge into showing the dead Z warriors fight the Ginyus on Kaio's planet or Chi Chi being a crazy helicopter mom on earth. Just made the Goku vs Freeza fight feel that much longer.

In my opinion, of course.

[Rafa Fast]

I really hope Toei don't avoid making fillers for Super 2, the fillers were one of the major reasons I enjoyed Super 1, specially in sagas as Beerus, Freeza's Revival and Zamasu.
Granolla as a saga felt very repetitive and way too simple for me, I wonder how Toei would make fillers for it, mainly for the part of the story when Goku and Vegeta arrive at Planet Cereal, if not, I think all of these would've worked better as movies (as BoG and Fukkatsu no F already did). U6, ToP, Moro and Super Hero are the only Super sagas that actually work as sagas for me, Toei already did some awesome filler for the former two, so I think they would repeat it for Moro and Super Hero (the latter specially using the Goten & Trunks material).

[AliTheZombie13]

Dragon Ball has never really had a problem with filler episodes or arcs as much as it has a problem with padding. Stuff like the Garlic Jr arc and the Afterlife Tournament is whatever, but the ways Toei finds to stretch out the Goku and Freeza fight is excuriating.

I'd argue Toriyama was half at fault there. Even he felt the fight was dragging out for way too long by the time Super Saiyan showed up, but he insisted on keeping them fighting for another dozen chapters. Goku goes from, "I won't let you power up!!!!!" to "Yeah, sure, go ahead, power up, I want to break you or whatever!" in the span of one chapter.

To each their own. I didn't mind the back on earth stuff because it was a nice break from Goku charging up the spirit bomb for 20 minutes.

Like, I actually think Kai is worse off for not being able to diverge into showing the dead Z warriors fight the Ginyus on Kaio's planet or Chi Chi being a crazy helicopter mom on earth. Just made the Goku vs Freeza fight feel that much longer.

In my opinion, of course.

Yes, I felt that way too the first time I watched vanilla DBZ.
Every single time the fight was interrupted to focus on Chi-Chi, Oolong, Master Roshi, Puar and Yajirobe trying to get to Namek, I was always like, "Let them. Make 7 episodes all about that. Please, let them go to Namek. At least SOMETHING will happen."

[ABED]

I think filler is only bad when it's intrusive.

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Dragon Ball has never really had a problem with filler episodes or arcs as much as it has a problem with padding. Stuff like the Garlic Jr arc and the Afterlife Tournament is whatever, but the ways Toei finds to stretch out the Goku and Freeza fight is excuriating.

The stretches in the fight aren't bad. The issue was the boring cutaways to whatever Bulma and Chichi were up to.

I'm fine with filler as I'm not in a mad dash to get to an end of the story.

To each their own. I didn't mind the back on earth stuff because it was a nice break from Goku charging up the spirit bomb for 20 minutes.

Like, I actually think Kai is worse off for not being able to diverge into showing the dead Z warriors fight the Ginyus on Kaio's planet or Chi Chi being a crazy helicopter mom on earth. Just made the Goku vs Freeza fight feel that much longer.

In my opinion, of course.

Then cut to Kaio's planet or Muten Roshi who could give some insight into the situation, but Chichi and Bulma just aren't interesting. I get your point about breaking up some drawn out moments, but the cutaways themselves are REALLY boring. Between those and added fight moments, the added fight padding is the lesser of two evils. Do you have any moments specifically that were added to the actual fight itself? Because I can't think of anything worse than Bulma and the frog or Chichi packing to fly to Namek just as the fight is about to pick up.

I'd be interested to see how much of the filler is made up of the cutaways and how much is material added to the actual fight itself.

"Let them. Make 7 episodes all about that. Please, let them go to Namek. At least SOMETHING will happen."

YOu guys are exaggerating. Not only do I have a hard time believing you would want an idea that sounds this boring even on paper, you are exaggerating about how long the fights are. Not everything is a mad dash to the end. Even in your scenario, nothing would actually happen. It would be like a rocking chair. It has movement but doesn't actually go anywhere. I'm not saying this to be mean but it would in fact not result in anything. Shows often do things like this where they will take a supporting character and make an entire episode about the, (e.g. the episode of Ted Lasso all about Assistant Coach Beard), but it's only one episode and they're at their best when they can show us something new about the character. This hypothetical would no only not show us anything new, they wouldn't actually get anywhere or be in any position to do anything even if they got there. What would be accomplished. Filler is fine so long as it's interesting. You don't like padding in the fights, fair enough. But that scenario with Chichi traveling to Namek ain't the solution. Maybe something more between the Ginyu Force and the fighters on Kaio's world would be a better solution.

1, specially in sagas as Beerus, Freeza's Revival and Zamasu.

There was no filler in the Zamasu arc. There are a few standalone episodes, but none of that qualifies as filler.

I quite like that structure with the main longer arc punctuated by smaller arcs (e.g. Copy) or standalone episodes.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Yeah, Kaiba said it was a complete waste of his time and effort and that they should "pretend that nonsense never happened". I never thought about how meta that comment was in context though. I still liked the virtual world arc as Kaiba has the most interesting backstory in Yu-Gi-Oh. It wouldn't have made sense to place the arc anywhere else though, it couldn't have been after the Battle City finals because destroying the tower was part of Kaiba's plan to bury the past, which necessitated him having closure with his stepfather first.

The good thing about Dragon Ball's filler, apart from during major battles, like the Garlic Junior and Other World tournament arcs, which you mentioned is you can just skip over them and not miss anything. I still find the whole 5 minutes on Namek thing comical though.

[ABED]

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Yeah, Kaiba said it was a complete waste of his time and effort and that they should "pretend that nonsense never happened". I never thought about how meta that comment was in context though. I still liked the virtual world arc as Kaiba has the most interesting backstory in Yu-Gi-Oh. It wouldn't have made sense to place the arc anywhere else though, it couldn't have been after the Battle City finals because destroying the tower was part of Kaiba's plan to bury the past, which necessitated him having closure with his stepfather first.

The good thing about Dragon Ball's filler, apart from during major battles, like the Garlic Junior and Other World tournament arcs, which you mentioned is you can just skip over them and not miss anything. I still find the whole 5 minutes on Namek thing comical though.

The five minutes isn't filler. It's absurdly long even in the manga.

[super michael]

If Toei does the Moro chapter and Granolah chapter, I hope that Toei does a good job. No terrible writing and no regressing characters, just for comedy or gag.

Don't add new scenes in the anime version that has Goku saying and doing dumb things.

Another thing they shouldn't censor blood and body injury. If One Piece can have blood and body injury, then so can Dragon Ball Super.

[SupremeKai25]

If Toei does the Moro chapter and Granolah chapter, I hope that Toei does a good job. No terrible writing and no regressing characters, just for comedy or gag.

Don't add new scenes in the anime version that has Goku saying and doing dumb things.

Another thing they shouldn't censor blood and body injury. If One Piece can have blood and body injury, then so can Dragon Ball Super.

DBS did have body horror, possibly more severe than anything we had ever seen in DBZ; we are talking about literal flesh/muscle/tissue melting (the only thing that possibly comes close is the old Bio-Broly):






But DBS can't show blood, because they want it to appeal to a wider audience of kids. And didn't DBZ: Kai, a precursor to DBS, also censor blood from the original (at least in certain scenes that were particularly graphic)?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Yeah, Kaiba said it was a complete waste of his time and effort and that they should "pretend that nonsense never happened". I never thought about how meta that comment was in context though. I still liked the virtual world arc as Kaiba has the most interesting backstory in Yu-Gi-Oh. It wouldn't have made sense to place the arc anywhere else though, it couldn't have been after the Battle City finals because destroying the tower was part of Kaiba's plan to bury the past, which necessitated him having closure with his stepfather first.

The good thing about Dragon Ball's filler, apart from during major battles, like the Garlic Junior and Other World tournament arcs, which you mentioned is you can just skip over them and not miss anything. I still find the whole 5 minutes on Namek thing comical though.

The five minutes isn't filler. It's absurdly long even in the manga.

A lot shorter than the anime though, the fight doesn't last that much longer after Goku turns Super Saiyan. It's a lot more believable as 5 minutes in the manga.

[Zephyr]

The actual worst example of padding in the anime's version of Goku vs. Freeza wasn't the long attack charge times, or the stare downs, or even the cutaways. It was the fucking flashbacks to stuff that happened an episode or two ago. That was what made it excruciating, for me at least.

[Majin Buu]

I've said before that most of the Namek filler doesn't add anything, but I was largely thinking about the Bulma and Frog Ginyu stuff when I said that (Bulma really gets shafted in both versions of this arc after they reach Namek, from irrelevance in the manga to lousy and irrelevant filler material in the anime). I'll stand up for all the space adventure filler leading up to the gang's arrival on Namek- Including Fake Namek (For the record, I used to hate this filler material too).

This filler material helps the pre-Namek part of the arc feel more like a proper space adventure than it did in Toriyama's manga, which much like Gohan's survival training in the previous arc, he just skips over the actual space travel part of the story; and the idea of going to space to find Dragon Balls sets the expectation of this being something of a space adventure, and the Fake Namek filler in particular gets the anime adaptation closer to that idea- making it feel less egregious when we get to Namek and the story becomes less of a space adventure and more of a series of action set pieces revolving around fights.

Plus the wandering orphans part sets up Freeza and his empire as the major antagonistic force of the arc well before we get to Namek, establishing earlier than in the manga who the big bad is, how bad he is, and giving that some time to sit and marinate before his proper introduction; whereas in the manga Freeza isn't mentioned until a chapter before his debut.

[JulieYBM]

I agree with Majin Buu—the orphan and even the Fake Namek stuff really sets the stage for stuff. I would have loved to see more material like that written while keeping in mind what was happening in the comic, but then using the original storylines to build up and establish those themes. NARUTO Shippuuden did this with the anime-original The Six-Tailed Demon Slug story arc (Episodes #144-151). This arc used Utakata and his student Hotaru as a mirror for the storyline that Naruto was about to face in the following arc, the comic-adapting Pain story arc (Episodes #152-175), when learning of the death of his master. By keeping aware of what plot, character arcs, and themes were going to be implemented, the anime was able to build on that work for an original story that was both an addition to the plot, a new story, and bought them time for production.

I would have loved to see Dragon Ball Super do more of this, especially in leading up to its arcs based on Toriyama outlines.

[MasenkoHA]

If Toei does the Moro chapter and Granolah chapter, I hope that Toei does a good job. No terrible writing and no regressing characters, just for comedy or gag.

Don't add new scenes in the anime version that has Goku saying and doing dumb things.

Another thing they shouldn't censor blood and body injury. If One Piece can have blood and body injury, then so can Dragon Ball Super.

DBS did have body horror, possibly more severe than anything we had ever seen in DBZ; we are talking about literal flesh/muscle/tissue melting (the only thing that possibly comes close is the old Bio-Broly):






But DBS can't show blood, because they want it to appeal to a wider audience of kids. And didn't DBZ: Kai, a precursor to DBS, also censor blood from the original (at least in certain scenes that were particularly graphic)?

Yes Kai censored some blood from the original but kept most of it. Boo Kai even removed a scene that was in the manga because it was too graphic for modern Japanese BS&P.

Most of Kai's censorship was removing child penis, characters giving the finger, and slowing down strobing light effects in ki blast because of Pokemon.

From my understanding One Piece gets away with more because it's a legacy series. Since Dragon Ball Super was a new series it had to comply with all modern kids tv broadcast standards in Japan. Supposedly Daima will have blood since it's a ONA, so we'll see.

[Koitsukai]

What's so odd about the Goku-Freeza filler part is that even though the 5 minute deadline is still running, they went ahead and took Goku out of comission for an entire episode to bring back Gohan to fight Freeza, and also seizing the opportunity to make Bulma look like the worst friend ever when she wants to ditch Goku and a KO'd Piccolo.

The flashback of two-episodes ago is so weird as well, it makes the fight seem even longer, even though it's supposed to happen in 5 minutes... I'd have preferred if those were flashbacks about the saiyan times or something involving Freeza and planet Vegeta. Like Vegeta reminiscing the proud conquest of a planet only for Zarbon to laugh at them. Connecting Freeza's current demise and the saiyans'.

[JulieYBM]

Saitou Tamaki mentions in his book 戦闘美少女の精神分析 (Sentou bishoujo no Seishin Bunseki; Beautiful Fighting Girl) how manga and anime often work in ways that match stuff like kodan, manpu, and even atemporality and kairological time.

Spoiler:

I think Dragon Ball often has these 'kodan' moments, where a single moment in time (five minutes on Namek, for example) is 'grossly exaggerated' for the sake of describing that moment. We see similar things in other long-running JUMP comics, like hundreds of chapters of BLEACH all occuring on the same day.

[MasenkoHA]

The Yu-gi-oh virtual world filler arc is one of the worst examples I can think of for 2000s shonen anime. Just stopping the main storyline dead to do a half years worth of an anime exclusive storyline before going back to the main story and pretending it never happened. (I think the English dub even threw in a joke about what a waste of time it was and how they were going to pretend it never happened)

Yeah, Kaiba said it was a complete waste of his time and effort and that they should "pretend that nonsense never happened". I never thought about how meta that comment was in context though. I still liked the virtual world arc as Kaiba has the most interesting backstory in Yu-Gi-Oh. It wouldn't have made sense to place the arc anywhere else though, it couldn't have been after the Battle City finals because destroying the tower was part of Kaiba's plan to bury the past, which necessitated him having closure with his stepfather first.

I mean they probably could have done it before the start of the tournament and make it like 5 episodes, not 20+


It would be like if after the quarter finals at the 23rd Tenkaichi Tournament the story got interrupted to do 20 some episodes of Goku and friends traveling to a distant Kingdom and we get some information about Tenshinhan's past and learn that Chaozu was a long lost emperor after all. And we're all just waiting to get back to the tournament because we want to see the showdown between Son Goku and the reborn Piccolo Daimao.

[Rafa Fast]

There was no filler in the Zamasu arc. There are a few standalone episodes, but none of that qualifies as filler.

Honestly, I didn't even completely read the first 5 arcs of the manga's Super (or 4, since Fukkatsu no F is something separate), so I considered filler what seemed like filler to me (Scenes with the Pilaf Gang, Goku saying he doesn't know what which is a kiss, etc), I know there's all that talk about "DBS doesn't have fillers", but I personally think that this comes from each one's interpretation, filler should be scenes and stories that only exist in the anime, but isn't that confusing in Super's case? Some scenes that exist in both Super anime and manga are completely different. Ultra Instinct's first appearance in the anime can qualify as filler? Idk.