Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[QuakingStar]

I may be proven wrong over the next few months but I very much doubt we'll see Gohan one shotting Goku to place him at Freeza's level.

He won't. Gohan isn't the MC, he MIGHT have more power than Goku but UI has auto-dodge and auto-attack for example, and Gohan not being the MC he will be surpassed again soon. Or they might just go ahead and make him weaker than Goku, Vegeta, and Broly.

The issue with Gohan is you can never know what they will do with him, in the Buu Saga he was the strongest one, but was he the one who saved the day and end Pure Buu? was he the MC? No and no.

[Yuji]

Yep, as I thought. Leaks are out and they seem to be evenly matched. Even if Gohan is holding back, this isn't a Freeza level performance.

[Koitsukai]

It's too soon, but I doubt Freeza would trade blows with UI Goku when he can one shot TUI and UE Vegeta. Based on the leaks, this hypes Freeza even more, and Cell Max gets the Raditz treatment.

I'm surprised Goku is using silver UI and not his personal UI. It could be that Goku is starting slow as usual, working his way up to TUI, maybe then we'll see the real fight where Gohan goes all out.
However, the leaks make sense, Freeza still being the mountain to climb and the heroes not being equipped to do so, but leaks usually don't paint the whole picture, they take into account the readers' expectations so that the full chapter can nutmeg us all, so I wouldn't jump to conclusions just yet.

[Yuji]

Silver UI still is and always was stronger than TUI, Goku just couldn't use it properly in the Granolah arc because he couldn't keep his emotions in check. Once he's knocked out, it's silver and the ki Avatar that manifest.

I'm not sure Goku has any reason to lose his composure in this fight so he should be at his strongest here. I don't think any excitement or pride over his son's strength will be enough to throw his mind off focus.

[DBZ Macky]

It's too soon, but I doubt Freeza would trade blows with UI Goku when he can one shot TUI and UE Vegeta. Based on the leaks, this hypes Freeza even more, and Cell Max gets the Raditz treatment.

I wish we'd get Black Frieza a bit later precisely because of this. Cell (kinda) comes back after like 2 decades only to get immediately outclassed? Meanwhile Buu never did anything in the first few arcs of Super except sleeping, and even when he did, Fit Buu was only as strong as Base ToP Goku and Daikaioshin Buu was only about as strong as SSG Goku and Vegeta.
We went from
Frieza << Cell < Buu in DBZ to
Frieza > Cell >> Buu in DBS
it's completely upside down

I'm surprised Goku is using silver UI and not his personal UI. It could be that Goku is starting slow as usual, working his way up to TUI, maybe then we'll see the real fight where Gohan goes all out.

Gohan will never be stronger than Goku's and Vegeta's strongest forms and I always had a hunch it'd be like this. I feel vindicated.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Hopefully Goku using Silver UI means the Granolah Saga was erased from existence.

[QuakingStar]

Silver UI is stronger than TUI. TUI though slightly weaker is more optimal for him as they explained in the Granolah Arc. This is also two years later, so Goku has likely mastered UI to the point he no longer needs to use TUI therefor he can use his true full power without worry.

[Hugo Boss]

I will wait until the official release to draw any hard conclusion, but so far Ultra Instinct (silver) is stronger than Ultra Instinct (black) when Goku’s heart is 100% calm. When it’s not the power levels are flipped.

[ZombieVito]

Beerus confirmed this chapter that

Spoiler:

MUI > TUI.

[Mr Baggins]

Yeah, thought as much. That's already what the Granolah arc implied, but this 100% confirms it.

Broly also once again reiterates he can't use Super Saiyan at will, lol.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

It's interesting to think that the anime is sorta ahead of the manga in the sense that it showed us what the peak of the complete Ultra Instinct could be, shown when Goku gets that rage boost in the form and goes absolutely crazy on Jiren.

In essence, the perfect Saiyan expression of Ultra Instinct where one's emotions are in perfect sync with their body.

[The Monkey King]

TUI was one of the dumbest and most unnecessary things introduced in DBS, I hope it never appears again.

Retconned UI just so Bardock an absolute nobody could teach Goku a dumb lesson about "fighting with emotion", Christ every time I remember the Granolah arc my head hurts. I hope Granolah is dead by now in-universe.

Fortunately It looks as though I might get my wish, it's a shame I'm not as confident about UE, the second dumbest transformation never coming back though.

[SupremeKai25]

It's interesting to think that the anime is sorta ahead of the manga in the sense that it showed us what the peak of the complete Ultra Instinct could be, shown when Goku gets that rage boost in the form and goes absolutely crazy on Jiren.

In essence, the perfect Saiyan expression of Ultra Instinct where one's emotions are in perfect sync with their body.

Agreed. This is why I always say that the Anime ToP arc is a perfect conclusion for Super Main storyline. We got a clear look at Mastered UI; Everything the Manga has done ever since has only muddied the waters and complicated things unnecessarily.

[QuakingStar]

Beerus confirmed this chapter that

Spoiler:

MUI > TUI.

Ha! there were people claiming "hehehehe Goku isn't even TUI this means he isn't taking Gohan seriously!" as if they forgot that TUI is just UI Sign but more suited to Goku AND weaker than UI lol

[QuakingStar]

Beerus confirmed this chapter that

Spoiler:

MUI > TUI.

Ha! there were people claiming "hehehehe Goku isn't even TUI this means he isn't taking Gohan seriously!" as if they forgot that TUI is just UI Sign but more suited to Goku AND weaker than UI lol

Oh, and to add to this. "Gohan Beast is only Super Saiyan Blue or Super Saiyan Blue KK level hew hew hew" and just as I thought, they were wrong hahahaha

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Wait so what's the point of True UI then? And don't tell me "It's weaker but better suited for combat" because Goku is in a combat right now.

[QuakingStar]

His use of UI in the Granolah arc being affected by his emotions made it slightly less effective than TUI in terms of fighting. TUI could go all out and not be effected negatively by emotions, and in fact could use Goku's anger to advantage. But in power and speed UI is still better overall. This is 2 years later, Goku has likely mastered UI to the point that his emotions can't hinder him anymore while using it, making TUI useless.

[Yuji]

Wait so what's the point of True UI then? And don't tell me "It's weaker but better suited for combat" because Goku is in a combat right now.

That's like asking why they'd use SS2 over 3. The stronger the form, the more drawbacks it has. Goku was not emotionally stable during the Granolah arc. Narratively I don't think there's enough reason for him to be that emotional considering he suffered worse in the Moro arc and managed just fine, but that's what the story says.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

That sounds very dumb, but I get it. Basically:

Silver UI
~ Full power: 100
~ Weakened: 50

UI Sign
~ Normally: 25
~ True: 75

[QuakingStar]

That sounds very dumb, but I get it. Basically:

Silver UI
~ Full power: 100
~ Weakened: 50

UI Sign
~ Normally: 25
~ True: 75

Seems like this would basically be it. Vegeta was having a similar problem with UE preventing him from tapping into its full power and said he needed to master it better so he was basically at the 75 threshold with it during the Granolah Arc.

I just found this earlier, and wow this guy did great.. perfect timing considering the chapter comes out in the next few days.
https://youtu.be/8KCWYbfzlmU?feature=shared