What are the worst Dragonball hot takes you've ever heard?

[Rafa Fast]

I think maybe you can as I see everyone saying the same things with little to no changes in opinion (some say it's only DBS anime Goku and some say it's both DBS Manga and Anime Goku)
I have no problem with this character in Super and for me that's all it matters, all I want to know is about the origins of the root of this discussion, I also saw people talking about it even during the original run from Super, but it can't be compared to how it has been since 2023, and I'm sure of that because as I said I was very active on social media and I saw this discussion exploding out of nowhere last year, it's bizarre.

[Lukmendes]

That's something I would like to discover, what made people decided to consider Super's Goku a Homer Simpson 2.0? I'm not talking about what they think about him, it's a character from a child's comic and cartoon, I personally don't see the point of discussing it
I'm talking about when exactly they decided to consider Super's Goku a dumbass and that he doesn't look like DBZ/DB Goku (and even GT Goku some times)
Because I swear to god, I didn't saw these people way back in 2019, 2020, 2021, early 2022...If I remember I started to see them right after the Super Hero movie came out, and then in 2023 it exploded, I'm not saying that before 2022 there weren't people talking about this, but it was definitely in 2023 where it spread wildly, since then I see everyone talking about tirelessly, when I used to be more active in social media (which lasted until mid to end of 2023) I literally saw it daily.

What happened? A famous Youtuber made a video talking about the subject? Toriyama or someone made a interview and said something that angered the fans?

Really? I saw complaints about Goku even before I watched Super, and that was while it was on in Black's arc.

Anyways, it was likely this video that cause it to be talked about more, since it was published last year:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTrUoA-v8-g

But again, I saw people commenting Goku was nothing more than moronic, obnoxious, selfish jackass while Super was going on, so even before this video or whatever else, the sentiment was there.

[super michael]

I was complaining about DBS Anime Goku when the anime was on, I don't even watch Youtubers when it comes to opinions about Dragon Ball in general.

I think it was around Goku Black Saga I was getting tired of Goku acting like a clown. Then the filler episode with Beerus in a costume took it too far.

Here is how it works:

Toriyama = level 1 Goku dumb
Toyotaro = level 2 Goku dumb
Toei = level 12 Goku dumb

Toei takes everything too far. They don't know when to stop.
DBS Super Hero is evidence that they don't know when to stop making Goku look like a clown.

[Grimlock]

Because I swear to god, I didn't saw these people way back in 2019, 2020, 2021, early 2022...

People have been complaining about Goku's portrayal even before Dragon Ball Super ended. If you were active during that time, then surely you saw something at some point. Unless you weren't active...

Also, there's Google, where you can set the date to find the "origins of the roots". And there's this perfectly accurate image, dating back at least to early 2021.

[LoganForkHands73]

I am submitting my agreement with this sentiment.

My general hot-take is that of all the thousands of different creative-types to work on Dragon Ball as a franchise, Toriyama Akira is indeed not the most skilled of them, and his position as creator should highlight his weaknesses as a writer, not just his strengths.

Yeah, partially co-co-signing this. At some point in time, back when Toriyama was a much more active creative force behind Dragon Ball and other projects, I might've been confident in saying he was the best. But I feel that the whole auteur cult surrounding Toriyama is just chasing a ghost at this point. Let's be real, Toriyama has for the most part been so unbelievably blasé and hands-off in steering the franchise for the last several years, yet he still has thousands eager to worship the ground he walks on, many of whom cruelly disregard the important work of all the contributing creators who are actually, ya know, making the stuff Toriyama puts his name on. They do so much to bring these projects to life but "they'll never be Toriyama". It's not entirely different from the '60s Marvel Comics bullpen situation, but there I can appreciate that Stan Lee was extremely active in promoting, writing and generally cohering the Marvel brand into what we know today, even if he was nowhere near as creatively involved as he made out. In contrast, Toriyama doesn't even pretend to care that much about Dragon Ball (the upcoming DAIMA possibly being the first exception in some time). His grasp of the characters and world he created is notoriously flimsy at best. Many of the most acclaimed projects in recent years would've flopped if not for collaboration with other, more driven (and dare I say, more talented) creators who mostly go nameless in the fandom. I dunno, I'm quite disillusioned with the man at the moment.

[JulieYBM]

Just to clarify, while I really do enjoy the new take on Broli in Movie #20, I really don't think it would have hit as hard without the excellent work bringing him to life that Nagamine and the various key animators did. That movie is less a Broli movie and more a movie about the animation staff getting revenge for the shitty production of the TV series. Similarly, the strengths of that 2015-2018 TV series are not Toriyama's story outlines, but the manner in which a thinly-spread and poorly scheduled staff managed to create small moments of triumph across the three years that it ran.

[super michael]

Another hot take DBS Anime Chi Chi is the same, she isn't worse than her DB/DBZ version.
That is not true, Buu Saga, Yo Son Goku and BoG Chi Chi are great.

[NeoZ Duwang]

I think maybe you can as I see everyone saying the same things with little to no changes in opinion (some say it's only DBS anime Goku and some say it's both DBS Manga and Anime Goku)
I have no problem with this character in Super and for me that's all it matters, all I want to know is about the origins of the root of this discussion, I also saw people talking about it even during the original run from Super, but it can't be compared to how it has been since 2023, and I'm sure of that because as I said I was very active on social media and I saw this discussion exploding out of nowhere last year, it's bizarre.

I believe it's as simple as "many people independently though that this version of the character is a far cry from what he should be", with no particular source starting it, but youtubers and social media certainly helped the idea spread a little bit.

I myself was already criticizing Goku's behavior since I started watching Super in early 2016, and I know some people that have been doing so since Resurrection F. I'm was too young during Battle of Gods release to remember how the fandom reacted to the movie, but I can guarantee that the hate for how Goku behaves currently has been very common since at least 2015

[Rafa Fast]

If I was that active in the past and I didn't realize it or I don't remember it or I really wasn't that active, if it's the latter, then currently I must be living under a rock a group of individuals suddenly becoming 60% of the community is what I witnessed, thanks to everyone who tried to explain it though ^^
(That photoshopped manga page always gives me a good laugh I remember it lol)

[LoganForkHands73]

Just to clarify, while I really do enjoy the new take on Broli in Movie #20, I really don't think it would have hit as hard without the excellent work bringing him to life that Nagamine and the various key animators did. That movie is less a Broli movie and more a movie about the animation staff getting revenge for the shitty production of the TV series. Similarly, the strengths of that 2015-2018 TV series are not Toriyama's story outlines, but the manner in which a thinly-spread and poorly scheduled staff managed to create small moments of triumph across the three years that it ran.

Yes, exactly. Some people act as though Toriyama was personally responsible for 100% of Dragon Ball Super: Broly, when so much of that film - and let's face it, Dragon Ball as a whole - lives and dies by the visuals: the animation, character design, and storyboarding quality, hardly any of which he was personally involved with. That credit rightfully goes to Nagamine, Shintani and the rest. And that's not to completely dog on Toriyama's contribution. Bold claim incoming, but the screenplay for Broly might be the best quality work to come out of the entire revival era of Dragon Ball. It's tight, focused, thematically rich, and engaging to both fans and newcomers. Everything came together really well.

[super michael]

If I was that active in the past and I didn't realize it or I don't remember it or I really wasn't that active, if it's the latter, then currently I must be living under a rock a group of individuals suddenly becoming 60% of the community is what I witnessed, thanks to everyone who tried to explain it though ^^
(That photoshopped manga page always gives me a good laugh I remember it lol)

Other website such as Neoseeker and Gamefaqs people complained about DBS Goku, while the show was airing new. People didn't suddenly start hating DBS Goku when the anime ended.
Other website I can't say I have no idea.

Goku on Namek spared Freeza, but he didn't want to see Freeza ever again.
Goku wanted Cell dead, he had no interest in fighting him again.
Goku wanted Kid Boo dead, he didn't want to fight him.

DBZ RoF and DBS ROF Goku doesn't care what evil things he did, he wanted to spare Freeza and fight him again.
In DBS Anime ROF Goku didn't take his fight with Freeza away from the people around, so Freeza was able to target Goku friends and family.

Crunchyroll was free at the time, except for the latest episode. It took 1 week for the latest episode to be free.

[Rafa Fast]

I don't know to what extent this is a reality, but personally, as much as I respect Toriyama a lot and am always grateful for him for creating this wonderful series, I definitely believe that if everything depended on him alone, the series, or rather, the franchise, would never have reached the point it is currently at, and with that I actually count it as the situation it found itself in in the 90s, I think that all of its longevity is much more due to the other artists who worked in it than the man himself
In my case, I don't even need to extended it much, for example, for me the fillers that Toei's team created for DB, DBZ and even Super made the anime(s) 10x better than the manga, to the point that when I read the manga I feel like there's something wrong or missing, people criticize the fillers a lot but I'm always grateful that they exist, I think they give more life to this universe, and that's just a summary, there's much more.

[super michael]

Filler episode doesnt automatically mean bad in my opinion, sometimes anime exclusive scenes can be good. We get to see things that is off-screen in the manga and sometimes some fights in the manga are short, so the anime extend it.
Sometimes the manga some character don't shine as might mostly the humans, while the anime they made filler episode so that they can shine.

Goku and Piccolo driving was funny in my opinion.

DBS didn't use filler to make the character shine, but instead make the character look bad.
Why did Goten and Trunks appear in DBS Anime, if they were allowed to do anything? There is a reason why no other anime does that writing.

In RoF why did Kuririn go to the battle field when he is weaker than C18, C18 should have gone to the battle instead of watching her kid. Better yet why not leave their kid with Chi Chi and then they can both go to battle.
Why didn't they allow Goten and Trunks to join the fight. Then they whine how little their numbers are, when they are the one who limited who could join.
I am aware RoF is Toriyama decision and not Toei.



I enjoyed DB/DBZ so much that I watched it in multiple times in multiple languages. I read the manga many times.
I watched GT many times that I watched it in multiple times in multiple languages.
DBS Manga I have read it many times.

DBS Anime was a disappointment in my opinion. I only watched it in Japanese dub once and no more each episode.


People blamed Japan law for why Goten and Trunks couldn't fight or train, then we have DBS Super Hero showing Pan fighting and training. showing the law wasn't the problem.

One Piece has blood, therefore the law isn't why DBS doesn't have blood.