Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Miracles]

Also Beerus asks Whis if the current Silver Haired UI is Goku's strongest form. Whis assumes it to be the case with it "seems." Remember, Whis and Beerus were absent for the battle against Gas. Whis did not show up until after the battle to heal Monaito. Factually we only know Goku's True UI is his strongest form. Now that's not to say Goku hasn't grown or changed in his usage of the silver-haired UI during this training, which is an assumption. However we know for a fact as the audience, Goku's last form as the strongest was True UI.

Oh and BTW, Ultra Instinct allows one to "move, react and respond of it's own accord."-Rebirth of F Chapter 2. So UI allows one to attack as well as evade unconsciously. It's no big deal anyway.

[Issei189]

Now we have confirmation that Goten and Trunks have gotten stronger as per Gohan's own words in the new manga chapter. So where do you guys place them ? I personally see SS Goten and Trunks being on a level of Surpressed Perfect Cell since we previously saw SS Goten and Trunks briefly holding off Cell Juniors in the Bonus chapter of TOP arc. Now SS Gohan in the manga should be stronger than a full power Perfect Cell

Spoiler:

[QuakingStar]

Also Beerus asks Whis if the current Silver Haired UI is Goku's strongest form. Whis assumes it to be the case with it "seems." Remember, Whis and Beerus were absent for the battle against Gas. Whis did not show up until after the battle to heal Monaito. Factually we only know Goku's True UI is his strongest form. Now that's not to say Goku hasn't grown or changed in his usage of the silver-haired UI during this training, which is an assumption. However we know for a fact as the audience, Goku's last form as the strongest was True UI.

Oh and BTW, Ultra Instinct allows one to "move, react and respond of it's own accord."-Rebirth of F Chapter 2. So UI allows one to attack as well as evade unconsciously. It's no big deal anyway.

Whis could still sense power and power jumps. He knew about Black Frieza as well. He still says that Goku's current UI is his most powerful form/technique. It's been 2 years so it seems that Goku does not need TUI anymore.

[ZombieVito]

I find it odd that people say that Whis not seeing the Gas fight means he doesn't know about it. He literally plays a video of the Freeza fight on Namek and explains exactly what Super Saiyan is on his first appearance.

Angels can just see the history of their universe easily.

[QuakingStar]

A little off topic, but Gohan Beast not having Pupils is confirmed an error. https://www.threads.net/@toyotaro_vjump ... gst3yxVN-/

[Hugo Boss]

Chapter is out and, according to Viz’s translation, Beerus doesn’t exactly frame the silver-haired ultra instinct as Goku’s best technique. He just talks about it generally. Not that it changes the current state of things, but I think it’s worth pointing out.

By the way, I’m under impression that Beerus is foreshadowing that Goku might acquire something greater, if that’s even possible. And Vegeta is using this opportunity to have a peak at both his rivals’ full strength. He seems to be following everything alright and the chapter emphasizes this more than once by paneling his reactions.

[Miracles]

Also Beerus asks Whis if the current Silver Haired UI is Goku's strongest form. Whis assumes it to be the case with it "seems." Remember, Whis and Beerus were absent for the battle against Gas. Whis did not show up until after the battle to heal Monaito. Factually we only know Goku's True UI is his strongest form. Now that's not to say Goku hasn't grown or changed in his usage of the silver-haired UI during this training, which is an assumption. However we know for a fact as the audience, Goku's last form as the strongest was True UI.

Oh and BTW, Ultra Instinct allows one to "move, react and respond of it's own accord."-Rebirth of F Chapter 2. So UI allows one to attack as well as evade unconsciously. It's no big deal anyway.

Whis could still sense power and power jumps. He knew about Black Frieza as well. He still says that Goku's current UI is his most powerful form/technique. It's been 2 years so it seems that Goku does not need TUI anymore.

Understood. However, factually we know the last time Beerus and Whis seen Goku's fight was against Moro.They were not there for Granolah Survivor arc. Unlike Beerus and Whis who are questioning and assuming if Silver-Haired Goku is his strongest, we as the audience evidently knows Goku's strongest form is True UI. We actually seen it without wondering.

[QuakingStar]

Chapter is out and, according to Viz’s translation, Beerus doesn’t exactly frame the silver-haired ultra instinct as Goku’s best technique. He just talks about it generally. Not that it changes the current state of things, but I think it’s worth pointing out.

By the way, I’m under impression that Beerus is foreshadowing that Goku might acquire something greater, if that’s even possible. And Vegeta is using this opportunity to have a peak at both his rivals’ full strength. He seems to be following everything alright and the chapter emphasizes this more than once by paneling his reactions.

That's not what it says, it is referring to the Silver Haired UI as his best technique. Not UI in general. Beerus already knows about UI in general. Whis can sense everything going on and as revealed he knew what was going on at Earth and sensed Gohan Beast himself already. He also sensed Black Frieza and when asked if Frieza was the strongest that was spoken of he said he wasn't so sure. TUI is just UI Sign with the ability to use ones emotions without negative drawbacks.

"we as the audience evidently knows Goku's strongest form is True UI. We actually seen it without wondering." You say we and KNOW and seen it without wondering when who is we? Because when I read the chapter it was pretty clear to me that Goku had advanced his UI to the point TUI was no longer needed, it's clear TUI was never his true strongest form, as in the Granolah Arc he was having issues keeping his emotions in check which is why UI was less effective.

[Mr Baggins]

I mean, Goku himself told Gohan they'll use their strongest forms right off the bat. Between that and what Beerus said, I'd say it's rather obvious the silver-haired UI is the best. That was already strongly suggested in the Granolah arc anyway.

The biggest relevation this chapter proffers is Goku being a lot closer to Gohan strength-wise than some people may have thought, which... isn't actually that surprising, if I'm being honest.

[Noah]

This probably had been discussed before, but is Black Freeza strong enough to take Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Broly in their strongest forms if they all gang against him?

[ZombieVito]

Chapter is out and, according to Viz’s translation, Beerus doesn’t exactly frame the silver-haired ultra instinct as Goku’s best technique. He just talks about it generally. Not that it changes the current state of things, but I think it’s worth pointing out.

He does.

[QuakingStar]

This probably had been discussed before, but is Black Freeza strong enough to take Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, Piccolo and Broly in their strongest forms if they all gang against him?

It's been 2 years and Frieza has leaned his lesson. I guarantee he has been training for the past 2 years and is stronger than he was when revealing Black Frieza to them. How strong he is now? We don't know.

[Hugo Boss]

Chapter is out and, according to Viz’s translation, Beerus doesn’t exactly frame the silver-haired ultra instinct as Goku’s best technique. He just talks about it generally. Not that it changes the current state of things, but I think it’s worth pointing out.

He does.

He does what? Herms said exactly what I said: “Ultra Instinct currently being Goku’s strongest technique (最強技, which Viz renders as “best trick”)”.

The lower part of my post is referencing the silver-haired version being the strongest when the conditions are favorable.

What I’m thinking about though is something different. Beerus and Whis might be suggesting that Goku will acquire in the future some technique that could surpass his current level, contrary to the belief that evolving Ultra Instinct would be his only way to get stronger.

[Miracles]

The confusion is here: Beerus is not making a statement of fact but asking a question. Whis's answer is an assumption with the word "seems."

[QuakingStar]

The confusion is here: Beerus is not making a statement of fact but asking a question. Whis's answer is an assumption with the word "seems."

Whis already sensed the differences in the Granolah Arc. This chapter Goku says it's his best, Beerus asks to confirm, Whis says it seems so. His current usage of UI is better than TUI. Of course the very next chapter could say eff it and change that. So we will have to wait and see.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

Also, remember that writers like Toyotaro and Toriyama tend to follow the simple common adage: "Keep It Simple, Stupid".

They're showing off their strongest forms, they bring up if it's the best, therefore it's probably the best.

[The Monkey King]

The confusion is here: Beerus is not making a statement of fact but asking a question. Whis's answer is an assumption with the word "seems."

Let it go man. There are no lines to read between. MUI is Goku's strongest form. Toyo or Toriyama aren't pulling a 4-D Chess gambit on the audience. There is no confusion to be had... unless you make it up in your head.

The scene clearly and I mean clearly reads as Goku and Gohan transforming into their strongest forms, this is a children's comic book after all.

[Koitsukai]

I doubt there are ulterior motives for those UI lines.
The takeaway from this is Goku's inner conflict seems resolved, he no longer needs to use a weaker form to make up for the shortcomings presented by the silver form.
I guess Whis' "stop trying to imitate me, go find your own fucking UI" line meant learn how to use your emotions without drawbacks, which makes sense in the UI ladder, he first used his emotions in Sign, and now he seems to have learned to do so in his silver form. We'll see what new asspull of a drawback Goku encounters next.

Gohan might not be as strong as Black Freeza(currently or previously, because he probably is not sitting in his chair, waiting on the saiyans with their brand new forms to surpass him), but it seems he would've saved the day in the last arc.

[Miracles]

The confusion is here: Beerus is not making a statement of fact but asking a question. Whis's answer is an assumption with the word "seems."

Let it go man. There are no lines to read between. MUI is Goku's strongest form. Toyo or Toriyama aren't pulling a 4-D Chess gambit on the audience. There is no confusion to be had... unless you make it up in your head.

The scene clearly and I mean clearly reads as Goku and Gohan transforming into their strongest forms, this is a children's comic book after all.

The ones reading between the lines are those not taking the dialogue at face value from Beerus and Whis. Which are not direct statements of fact but a question that received an answer that only appears to be the case to Whis [seem]. Easy to see in this children's book.

[Mr Baggins]

Miracles... come on, brodamus.

The dialogue is flatly telling you at face value that Goku is using his strongest form. Beerus and Whis aren't even the only characters in this chapter to mention it; it came straight from the horse's mouth too. I promise you that the writers aren't just planting these ideas into the readers' heads just to fuck with them.

This is virtually no different from Broly suggesting again this month that he can't use Super Saiyan at will, another notion that you seem to have reacted incredulously to for no reason. Your interpretation needs to fit the narrative, not the other way around. We can only help those who help themselves.

DB's writing is never intended to be so obtuse.