Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[SX10]

I'm in-touch with Karl, I'll hopefully be interviewing him this week.

ATM will also be doing a special livestream in celebration of Akira Toriyama with a special guest. https://www.instagram.com/anime.time.machine/

Fantastic work! That would be a great interview. Amazing job on the Saffron Henderson interview and the clip you directed her read-through of, she's still got it!

[Kirbopher]

Finished the interview with Karl; it'll be out this Saturday. I gave a few reveals I've been holding onto the last several years, so you'll have some new tidbits from that. Karl said he'll try and dig up ANY other stuff he can. Maybe we might get some additional morsels on the stream they'll all be doing together on Sunday.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Looking forward to the interview, Karl seems like a very down to Earth, fan-focused guy (based on what he's said about disputes with engineers and producers).

Aside from the cast it would be great to know who any of the writers for the Ocean dub of Kai were, if Karl can dig that up. If any of the same team from the Blue Water were involved we can surely expect quite faithful direct Japanese to English translations.

For those unaware in the Blue Water dubs the writers we know of are:

Adaptation Script Staff

• Alex Kind (GT, original Dragon Ball)
• Paul Coldrick (GT, original Dragon Ball)
• Geoffrey Way (original Dragon Ball)
• Mike Bridges (original Dragon Ball)
• Rob Gerein (original Dragon Ball)

Dialogue Editors

• Aaron Nordean (GT, original Dragon Ball)
• Cisco McLaren (GT, original Dragon Ball)
• Jason Cushing (GT)
• Scott Jackson (GT, original Dragon Ball)
• Ross Clarke (original Dragon Ball)
• Jennifer Balabanov (original Dragon Ball)

I may not be able to catch the stream this Sunday due to other commitments but if anyone can ask if any of the above worked on the Kai dub, even just as a polite reminder for Karl to enquire about that would be great.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

According to AnimeNewNetwork (who are generally not bad as a source) Dawn Harvey is Baba.

The LostMediaWiki is also now listing Michael Daingerfield as Recoome. I recall this was a rumour but don't remember where it came from. Someone also wrote that Tim Hamaguchi (i.e. James Beach) is the new Zarbon, although from what I know it was presumed to be one of the Namekians.

[Tian]

According to AnimeNewNetwork (who are generally not bad as a source) Dawn Harvey is Baba.

They got it from the ACTRA database, which is an amazing find because we can also look for other actors who were also involved in this dub.
https://voice.actraonline.ca/members/11-00147/

That database is extensive and features voice actors and announcers from different parts of Canada like Toronto, Quebec and Vancouver.

[Kirbopher]

https://youtu.be/L1tBUs5847o?si=yM9v2kybcm-09Uzy&t=5203
Here's the full thing, I've had it start at the DBZ segment with some of my new info drops if you guys wanna take a listen.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

While I appreciate you asking Karl Willems for an interview Kirbopher you do need to let guests like him talk more. Interviews are always about the guest, first and foremost because they are ultimately the ones your viewers want to hear from.

[Robo4900]

Seconding this, but more harshly.

I got no sense of this being an interview. You talked over him the entire time.

[sangofe]

You're not letting him talk. You are talking over him. This is not an interview and not the way you should have a discussion with anyone either.

[SX10]

I have to say I do think there were a few times something would occur to Karl or he would just about discover something and then he got a bit railroaded. But I do hope it has jogged his memory a bit for tonight's stream.

Oh also (and I still have the og emails). Having the dub aired still remains a viable option for Toei given the enthusiasm to engage in discussions of a possible broadcast. It's like they are essentially waiting for a bidder. I think unless it is a big spender, it might not be too likely (at least that's what I understood from reading that the emails from Marin where she stated there is a strategy involved).

[Kirbopher]

…okay, i’m gonna be bluntly honest in return, but I’d like to be productive here:

First of all, I’ve been doing interview interviews like these with people for 14 years and don’t need to be educated on how to do it.

Second of all, while I can understand the frustration with me talking too much, let me explain my perspective about this in particular. I’ve literally been wanting to talk with Karl for about 15 years, especially to share with him a lot of my memories, and how the work he did impacted the lives of myself and a lot of my colleagues. More than anything else, that was the reason I wanted to interview him; he had a fantastic time, we talked for quite a bit after I turned the recording off and he even was going on about it positively during the livestream today.

Third, let me re-emphasize something that, while I hate to admit, is the sad truth about the grand majority of the Vancouver guys, much as I love them: they genuinely do not remember a whole lot about most of the stuff that they’ve worked on 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago. Literally if you look up like 99% of the interviews with them, most of their answers involve “yeah that was fun to work on!” with maybe like a SINGLE specific memory. Case in point, Karl story about Lee as Freeza doing the “zoom!” thing with something he already shared on one of the ATM streams. That's NO offense meant to him, he's just done a ton of things over the years and he, nor the actors, can be expected to remember much.

And on that note, finally (and most relevantly to this thread): I have really, really, REALLY tried hard for the past decade and some change to uncover everything I possibly can about this production, pretty much for the express purpose of sharing it on this one forum thread (the ONLY forum thread I still lurk on at this point) for what is otherwise a product that is in all likelihood, STILL never going to see the light of day. I said everything I said during that segment about Kai to be as thorough as humanly possible in getting on the same page to trigger any sort of memories whatsoever. We even talked a bit more about it in private after to see if there was anything else you could do to chase down some additional info to share on one of the ATM streams in the future. But I literally did everything that I could, even down to finally dropping some info I’ve held onto for many years now.

Let me re-emphasize: I’m not trying to diminish that other people in this community have tried to put a lot of effort into researching and uncovering information about this dub as well. And more on point, I understand the frustration of the interview not going the way you wanted, especially if you were expecting more information to come out of it. But all in all, cut me a goddamn break here guys.

[MistaL]

…okay, i’m gonna be bluntly honest in return, but I’d like to be productive here:

First of all, I’ve been doing interview interviews like these with people for 14 years and don’t need to be educated on how to do it.

...

they genuinely do not remember a whole lot about most of the stuff that they’ve worked on 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 years ago.

Telling people to stop with real criticisms because you believe you're better than their opinions isn't productive. There are several points where Karl starts to talk or is thinking about something and you start going on about something else. Lots of people have been doing things for a long time and still need to improve, yourself included. Don't be a dick about it, just be better. How can you genuinely bring up how much time has passed and how bad his memory may have faded when you didn't let him speak half the time? As true as it may be he clearly had more to say than you allowed. The interview overall wasn't bad but you could have conducted it better.

[Robo4900]

First of all, I’ve been doing interview interviews like these with people for 14 years and don’t need to be educated on how to do it.

People didn't like how you did your thing. Either take the criticism on board or move on. "I don't need to be educated on how to do [this]" and "cut me a goddamn break" is neither of those things, you're getting defensive. Which, to be fair, we've criticised you harshly, but to be fair to us, we were expecting an interview with Karl Willems, which is not what you delivered.

Second of all, while I can understand the frustration with me talking too much, let me explain my perspective about this in particular. I’ve literally been wanting to talk with Karl for about 15 years,

You didn't, though. You talked at him. You framed this as an interview, at least in this thread, and it wasn't. You talked basically solo for 2 hours, interrupting this guy, railroading him off tracks he wanted to follow up on, and in general did not conduct yourself in the manner of an interviewer. People didn't like that unprofessional approach.

If you wanted to talk on your own for two hours, you didn't need to get Karl Willems on a video call while you did so, and we feel shortchanged for being told we'd see an interview with Karl, only for it to be, essentially, you doing a loose vlog/video essay.

Let me re-emphasize: I’m not trying to diminish that other people in this community have tried to put a lot of effort into researching and uncovering information about this dub as well. And more on point, I understand the frustration of the interview not going the way you wanted, especially if you were expecting more information to come out of it. But all in all, cut me a goddamn break here guys.

People are criticising your interview methods, not your information-gathering.

In fact, I'd say your information-gathering has been useful, insightful, and on the whole I'm glad you've done it. I do wish you'd presented it differently (listing off the cliffnotes in this thread so those of us already in the know don't have to wade through so much info we already know, and stopping with your constant assertions over the years that this dub will never be released that you only arrived at because one TV deal fell through ten years ago; it doesn't contribute to the conversation and is just tiring to deal with), but the information itself is not the subject of anyone's criticism here. Neither is the effort you've put into your research. No one is criticising that.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

what is otherwise a product that is in all likelihood, STILL never going to see the light of day.

That may be true, but it's still not right you've been spreading rumours for years that you know it's not coming out because you spoke with voice actors who know no more than you do.

I appreciate your backtracking a bit and not claiming it as fact as much these days, but the fact WOW Unlimited were in negotiations to get the rights to air this dub proves you don't know as much as you claim to because they were so close to getting it released.

You haven't spoken with the head honchos at Ocean or anyone in the Canadian TV industry, and unless you do and they concur with your claims about some broadcasting entity losing the rights that remains just a guess your making.

[MistaL]

That may be true, but it's still not right you've been spreading rumours for years that you know it's not coming out because you spoke with voice actors who know no more than you do.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about some of the stuff he said in here years ago. Like how it was made for a specific purpose and that purpose has now passed so it'll never get released. But now in the interview he doesn't even know who commissioned the dub and by his own words even said everything he knows, including things he's been holding onto forever (though I didn't hear him say anything we didn't already know).

[Kirbopher]

I literally said I understood the criticism but tried to explain where I was coming from AND that I did every bit of my due diligence to get as much information as I could. Being criticized is one thing, but I DO NOT appreciate being insulted and trashed when literally I'm trying to get information for you guys specifically.

I even continued to try and ask some stuff about Kai again during the stream today. Nothing. The Over 9000/8000 alternate take story was told again and that was it. There's nothing more to share and I ASSERT that during the interview, regardless of how you guys feel, even Karl himself said on the stream today he couldn't remember anything further. I don't know what to tell any of you other than that.

If you guys would rather I not bother with this anymore, then I won't. I've seriously tried my ABSOLUTE best and I think I'm in my right to be hurt by some of what you guys are saying here. You can continue to petition and talk to whoever about trying to get the thing on TV, but I also assert those decisions are far out of anyone in this community's actual control. This otherwise felt like a waste of everyone's time and I'm left feeling horrible about this for all the work I tried to put in for the last 10+ years. At least now you guys know a few other cast members so I hope that was even remotely worth it.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

That may be true, but it's still not right you've been spreading rumours for years that you know it's not coming out because you spoke with voice actors who know no more than you do.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about some of the stuff he said in here years ago. Like how it was made for a specific purpose and that purpose has now passed so it'll never get released. But now in the interview he doesn't even know who commissioned the dub and by his own words even said everything he knows, including things he's been holding onto forever (though I didn't hear him say anything we didn't already know).

My guess is Ocean were able to dub Kai for the same reason they were able to create the Westwood dub. The recording rights Ian James Corlett spoke of didn't go away and it was a use it or lose it thing. They probably hoped for YTV to air it because they were the home of Dragon Ball on Canadian TV during the original run. From what SubZeroIce has said a deal was being worked out for Kix in the UK in 2012, a possible WOW deal in 2018 was in the works and another with Toon-A-Vision in 2021 that.... I was probably told too much about, but there's no reason if another broadcaster expresses interest and is willing to pay what TOEI is asking that it could happen.

[MistaL]

I literally said I understood the criticism but tried to explain where I was coming from AND that I did every bit of my due diligence to get as much information as I could. Being criticized is one thing, but I DO NOT appreciate being insulted and trashed when literally I'm trying to get information for you guys specifically.

I even continued to try and ask some stuff about Kai again during the stream today. Nothing. The Over 9000/8000 alternate take story was told again and that was it. There's nothing more to share and I ASSERT that during the interview, regardless of how you guys feel, even Karl himself said on the stream today he couldn't remember anything further. I don't know what to tell any of you other than that.

If you guys would rather I not bother with this anymore, then I won't. I've seriously tried my ABSOLUTE best and I think I'm in my right to be hurt by some of what you guys are saying here. You can continue to petition and talk to whoever about trying to get the thing on TV, but I also assert those decisions are far out of anyone in this community's actual control. This otherwise felt like a waste of everyone's time and I'm left feeling horrible about this for all the work I tried to put in for the last 10+ years. At least now you guys know a few other cast members so I hope that was even remotely worth it.

Dude, get over yourself lmao. It's not as big a deal as you're acting like it is and you did dismiss the criticism in the literal first sentence of your previous post. Implying you'll just stop trying to get info because some people thought your interview could have been better and then acting like you're our only hope of ever learning anything is maybe rooted in the same thing that kept you talking over Karl. Stop putting yourself on a pedestal, take the L, and act normal about this. We're all just trying our best to learn what we can and you made some mistakes like pretty much everyone else that's gotten anywhere in this thread has, all you have to do is do better next time.

[Robo4900]

That may be true, but it's still not right you've been spreading rumours for years that you know it's not coming out because you spoke with voice actors who know no more than you do.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about some of the stuff he said in here years ago. Like how it was made for a specific purpose and that purpose has now passed so it'll never get released. But now in the interview he doesn't even know who commissioned the dub and by his own words even said everything he knows, including things he's been holding onto forever (though I didn't hear him say anything we didn't already know).

My guess is Ocean were able to dub Kai for the same reason they were able to create the Westwood dub. The recording rights Ian James Corlett spoke of didn't go away and it was a use it or lose it thing. They probably hoped for YTV to air it because they were the home of Dragon Ball on Canadian TV during the original run. From what SubZeroIce has said a deal was being worked out for Kix in the UK in 2012, a possible WOW deal in 2018 was in the works and another with Toon-A-Vision in 2021 that.... I was probably told too much about, but there's no reason if another broadcaster expresses interest and is willing to pay what TOEI is asking that it could happen.

It seems clear to me that it's most likely Kai and the Westwood dubs existed for one reason alone: Ocean's production arm (Westwood back in 2001-2003, IPP in 2011-2014) bought a license from Toei.

[SX10]

Look to be fair, a few new cast names did come out and I am also very grateful that you have put in the effort where you could over the years, but yeah the interview was a little frustrating. Not finding out anything new wasn't the most frustrating part. But you know, we've spoken with the license holder and seen that a deal can unfold under the right circumstances.

Now where I'm at is, where they serious about a Kickstarter? Because of the proposal was a limited edition blue ray release, you'd probably only have to cover the license fee and/or production costs, maybe factor In distribution; people could reach out to smaller companies that maybe specialise in limited edition releases looking for advice; a cast list from Karl, the names that would be on there would catch the attention of even the average fan and collectors would take notice too.

It's probably then just as available or known as the pioneer uncut dubs, etc.