Dragon Ball Without Its Creator

[Peach]

I will continue to support Dragon Ball projects going forward. Many directors, producers, animators, and writers will come forward and put their own spin on Dragon Ball. Some of it will be bad, but some will be good too.

Look at Lupin the Third. It outlived the creator, Monkey Punch, but it still maintains a high level of quality, offers a lot of diverse stories, and honors Monkey Punch's legacy. Dragon Ball will be the same. It will outlive Toriyama, and even most of us.

[GreatSaiyaman123]

Short term, he probably had a finger (or at least approved of) next chapter's plot, and maybe a few more after it. Long term, I think it depends on how much Daima would shake the status quo.

[ZeroNeonix]

Dragon Ball is very profitable. TOEI won't let it die without at least trying to go on without its creator. In my opinion, though, Dragon Ball without Toriyama isn't Dragon Ball. GT? Didn't have Toriyama. It's literally unwatchable to me. I can barely tolerate it long enough to finish the first episode. lol

Super had Toriyama's story beats, and even some designs, but it was a very mixed bag. The movies he wrote, on the other hand, were good. Even though the general concepts seemed uninspired, repeating old ideas, Toriyama made them work.

I do not see future Dragon Ball movies/anime post Toriyama working. My feelings towards the Super manga, however, are more complicated. In my opinion, Toyotarou's manga produced more interesting stuff than the anime. Its has provided the kind of world building that many of us have been craving out of Super. However, TOEI has pretty much ignored its existence, treating it like a fan comic. Now that Toyotarou won't be receiving any more notes from Toriyama, it will be hard to see it as more than that. I'll still follow it to see if it's any good, but in the back of my mind, I will probably always be like, "Oh man. This is a neat fan project. I wish this was canon."

tldr: I expect anime/movies to fall short without Toriyama. The manga, no matter how good it is in the future, will lose some of its legitimacy after Toriyama's passing.

[Dragon ball master]

Welp without Toriyama Dragon Ball is in Toyotarou Hands we just gotta belive in him that he will carry Toriyamas Legacy.

[funrush]

It's very weird to think of how Dragon Ball will continue without Toriyama because even when Toriyama was not involved with the story of Dragon Ball he still did the character designs. So stuff like GT at least has his visual design DNA in it. I have a feeling that once we go past the stuff Toriyama wrote/design, the feel is maybe gonna start to be off. Dragon Quest may run into a similar problem.

I'll be curious to see if Toriyama wrote more Dragon Ball that hasn't been made yet, or if they will adapt ideas from his notes or something. I know he was somewhat hands off with the Goku Black and Tournament of Power arcs of Super, but he is credited with writing the recent manga arcs. Will the manga even keep going after this arc? The death of the creator/writer and Daima on the way could spell the end of Super.

I am grateful Toriyama lived long enough to write the last 4 Dragon Ball movies. I was thinking about that earlier today, how lucky we are to have received that whole second wave of new Dragon Ball content after GT effectively ended the series.

[Shaddy]

Nobody could do it like Toriyama. Nobody has done it like Toriyama...but they don't have to. The problem with Dragon Ball outside of Toriyama's involvement is not simply that it lacks his specific energy, but that a lot of it kinda sucks?

The point is, nobody can be Toriyama, but Dragon Ball, if it is to still exist, still can be something else that's good. I think the only way to do this is to get seasoned writers and artists with good work outside of anything related to Dragon Ball to helm the narrative. To look at the characters and concepts presented so far and draw a logical line out from there.

As long as the thing you make is good, it doesn't have to be the same as it always was.

[pepd]

Hopefully Toyotaro and whoever has enough love/respect for Tori's story will close it with whatever ideas he had worked on or talked about.

For the content after that, I will probably check it out of curiosity. From time to time like I do with Multiverse if it's from Toyotaro or by miracle someone else that at least somewhat grasps DB's spirit. Wont sit through any of it like I did with DBS anime if it's shit.

[Brodes]

Sadly, I know that for the foreseeable future I'm going to see a bunch of articles about how anime only exists in the US because of DBZ on Toonami and that any attempt at correcting that is going to be met with insults and aggression.

On a less cynical note, I'm very curious to see where Dragon Ball goes from here. While people may, ultimately Dragon Ball has to stand on its known without the "but its not by Toriyama so it sucks" defense. If it goes anywhere after Daima that is. Which, honestly it doesn't have to go anywhere. Maybe more movies, just video games to carry on, maybe just appreciating what we have, who knows?

[Grimlock]

It is farcical to have a conversation about "official" canon when it comes to Dragon Ball.

And yet... *Sigh*... We are still having it...! We will never be free of this embarassing bullshit, will we?

Toriyama still has a family and Dragon Ball can continue to provide for his family long after his passing. That's a wonderful thing, and its one way to honor the man... continue to support the series in whatever way you're comfortable. I mean, that's not to say we have to like whatever comes next, even if it's junk... But just because he's gone, doesn't mean we have to let go of the characters and stories that he gave to the world.

I look forward to much more from the world of Dragon Ball, even if it's commercialized crap. I mean, what isn't commercialized crap these days anyway? Moreover, Dragon Ball has always been mired, knee-deep in commercialized crap since day one! There's still a good story at the center of it all, and it's still worth enjoying and sharing with young people!

(...)

I think all fans that have stuck with the series for a long time can see that the golden age of Dragon Ball is behind us. But like I said before, there's still so much left to explore and with which to have fun. Dragon Ball shouldn't be abandoned. It will be heartbreaking if it gets further cheapened and driven into irrelevance by greedy commercialism-- like many of Disney's intellectual properties. But I do believe there is a good chance for the series to go on with a high degree of respectability. It's possible.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. I would continue to be invested in and support Dragon Ball no matter what. If you read the interviews, you will notice that Toriyama had always encouraged other authors to do their own thing. And I want to see their take, their visions for this franchise, even if they deviate a lot of from Toriyama's, but if the man himself didn't bother with that, I certainly will not as well. Dragon Ball at its core is this light-hearted series, but it has proven to work well with more serious tone (the TV Specials), and heck, even with horror and mysterious elements (all the lead up to Cell's reveal). Then there's the Multiverse era we are currently living on. Dragon Ball has all the tools at its disposal to do something with that too. If those are the things I can expect in the future, then it's game on.

[GhostEmperorX]

And yet... *Sigh*... We are still having it...! We will never be free of this embarassing bullshit, will we?

This goes for a great many things in this space (and a lot of other similar ones like it). The solution most definitely isn't to endlessly complain about it, but to present information in the best and most accessible way possible.
For example, there's a Wuxia thread that goes into exhaustive detail about where a lot of DB's creative DNA may have been rooted in, to be linked whenever there's any doubt about what may have come before and simply spun anew by the series.
Just wondering, have you made a thread or some other resource explaining exactly what the problem is and the solution if you have been bothered by it this much? Especially for those who may not come around here that often. And have you gone in depth about how it has affected the foreign animanga sphere beyond just DB?

I'm mainly just saying because I've found that the best solutions to these sorts of issues are to document information, provide sources where applicable, and even actually acquire official material to decipher what it may contain.
In particular I'm still in the process of re-evaluating just about everything I used to think about this franchise, especially based upon proper evidence and chronological perspective.

[nineko]

Other franchises have been doing great even after their creators died, one gigantic example are the 007 movies, only two of which came out before Ian Fleming's death, and several of them are original works not even remotely based on the books.

With that said, I'm probably going to give Toyotarou a chance because of the benefit of the doubt, but I'm almost sure it's not going to be the same. There have been some fan mangas I enjoyed, but the keyword here is "fan". Perhaps it would be better if they rebranded it to some other name to recognise the discontinuity (heck, even calling it "Dragon Ball AF" would make sense at this point).

And I still definitely hope that there can be anime adaptations of the missing arcs, at least. Even if
(sigh) that would mean we'd have to sit through yet another retelling of Broly and Super Hero.

[PowerPhantom245]

This sounds very controversial, but is this mean there won't be any more live action adaptation (movies or TV series/streaming), domestically or internationally?

We know how Evolution made Toriyama upset, to the point he came back from retirement with Battle of Gods to revive the franchise, but I'm curious if he made an oath to NEVER to make any live action adaptation ever again.
I know that sounds bit stretch, but I'm curious if creator of franchise has that type of control.

I know that's going to be different can of worms, but it would have been interesting to see a good and well received live action adaptation, with Toriyama in majority of control in production.

[MasenkoHA]

This sounds very controversial, but is this mean there won't be any more live action adaptation (movies or TV series/streaming), domestically or internationally?

We know how Evolution made Toriyama upset, to the point he came back from retirement with Battle of Gods to revive the franchise, but I'm curious if he made an oath to NEVER to make any live action adaptation ever again.
I know that sounds bit stretch, but I'm curious if creator of franchise has that type of control.

I know that's going to be different can of worms, but it would have been interesting to see a good and well received live action adaptation, with Toriyama in majority of control in production.

Considering Toriyama never made any such claim he was against any and all potential live action adaptations that's one hell of a jump to make my guy.

[Trouser]

Perhaps it would be better if they rebranded it to some other name to recognise the discontinuity (heck, even calling it "Dragon Ball AF" would make sense at this point).

Not gonna lie, I'd like to see "Dragon Ball AF" being official...ised? Everyone would know that it's "non-canon" and just a spin-off like "Reincarnated as Yamcha", but it could generate some hype, especially that it has some really interesting concepts like Shadow Dragons Realm and restoring Dragon Balls with the energy of Super Saiyans. And of course concepts that were used in Super's manga like evil Goku and evil Kaioshin or switching between transformations in split seconds.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

This sounds very controversial, but is this mean there won't be any more live action adaptation (movies or TV series/streaming), domestically or internationally?

We know how Evolution made Toriyama upset, to the point he came back from retirement with Battle of Gods to revive the franchise, but I'm curious if he made an oath to NEVER to make any live action adaptation ever again.
I know that sounds bit stretch, but I'm curious if creator of franchise has that type of control.

I know that's going to be different can of worms, but it would have been interesting to see a good and well received live action adaptation, with Toriyama in majority of control in production.

I don't think Toriyama would have had anything against a live action Dragon Ball movie, considering how much of a film buff he was I'd guess he would have embraced it provided a more faithful approach was taken. Sadly Fox never wanted his advice and that's why we ended up with the movie we got.

Battle of Gods was also going to be made with or without Toriyama but its probably good he stepped in, the original plan sounded more like a retread of the Baby arc.

[Rafa Fast]

There a lot of stuff in Dragon Ball that have no involvement of Toriyama and I enjoyed them all, fillers, GT, DB & old Z Movies, OVAs and even some stories in Heroes, as long it is Dragon Ball I believe i'm going to enjoy it, but of course, there is Dragon Ball by Toriyama and Dragon Ball by someone else, I think DB by Toriyama gives a different vibe and this became very evident in the 2010's with stuff like DB Online, Jaco and the modern movies, a vibe that I can't feel at all in stuff like Heroes or the games with original stories as FighterZ.

But these are very simple video games, I can completely understand why their stories aren't very interesting, and I don't think it's fair to use things like Episode of Bardock as a comparison, due to how short the story is, so for me the real acid test will be done when they start making manga chapters, an anime or a film 100% without Toriyama's involvement.

I personally think that DB is in good hands, but those good hands have some holes in them, because as much as they respect Akira and his work, it's not possible to guarantee that they understand what he wanted for the series, and that's what I'm afraid of, Toei, Akio Iyoku, Toyotaro, whoever it is, may want to take the series in the direction of fights, fights, fights, fights and more transformations, and I already said here, what makes me love Dragon Ball is not just fights, but adventures, I disagree about Z not having more adventures, for me this is in the blood of the series, that's what worries me, I don't want every arc to be Zamasu or Granolla, leave non-stop fights for tournament arcs or short stories.

Other than that, I don't think there's anything for me to worry about, I will continue supporting DB, from now on things will be very different and I'm not sure if I'm prepared to it, I personally really wouldn't mind if they did another break on the Super manga in honor of Toriyama, or even if they left the games offline for a while and paused Daima's production (then postponing its release), for me it would be fair.
Dragon Ball will live on, I just hope that Toei, Shueisha, CC Tokyo and everyone else respect Toriyama's legacy ^^

[JoeCapricorn]

A part of me hopes Dragon Ball continues and that Akira Toriyama provided somewhat of an outline for a few future arcs for Toyotaro to work on. I think Black Frieza might be one of those, and eventually they will get animated.

Not sure what will become of Daima now though, and where that would fit in the canon.

But there is also the possibility that they don't really make too much new Dragon Ball content.

[MasenkoHA]

.

Not sure what will become of Daima now though, and where that would fit in the canon.

They'll most likely finish and release it. Don't know why anyone thinks they'll cancel or delay it. Especially since it seems like it was only intended as a mini series anyways

[AliTheZombie13]

Didn't Daima have like 5 years of pre-production?
I think it'll be fine, and they straightened out everything they needed.
Doubt they'll cancel it at this point.

[JulieYBM]

Didn't Daima have like 5 years of pre-production?
I think it'll be fine, and they straightened out everything they needed.
Doubt they'll cancel it at this point.

They've done too much animation to quit at this point lol.