Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 14; Still Unreleased

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Can anyone confirm if Crunchyroll has released anything Dragonball related in Canada because if not it might be able to be distributed there if I’ve read everything else right?

Canada gets all the same home releases as America, so yes. At this moment Crunchyroll has released Super Hero and repackaged Funimation's season Blu-Rays and GT The Complete Series in both territories, but theoretically they should still have the rights to everything else, like Kai, even if the existing copies retain Funimation's branding. The only way a distributor can work around this to get a physical release of Kai out in North America or the UK is if Crunchyroll lose the rights, and unfortunately even if Kai goes out of print it doesn't mean they lost the license.

I know that Ajay had a contact at Manga UK, and he was able to pull some strings with certain decisions they made, like fixing a subtitling error on Super Broly and advising them against releasing the 2013/14 Blu-Rays in the UK (which they did). Manga UK is now the London office of Crunchyroll and seem to have lost whatever autonomy they had (which was little to begin with but since being bought by Funimation it has seemingly become nothing) so it's a long shot to consider them doing anything exclusively for us here in Europe anymore. I also don't know if the same team still work at the company, other than Josh Pittaway (who I've spoken to on Discord and he was really helpful but is harder to reach now) or David Martinez (who may or may not still work there, his LinkedIn is not very clear), but if anyone can help with talking to the company, who has enough reach within this community it's definitely Ajay.

I've suggested this before, but there is a new UK kids channel called Moochi we could try pitching Kai too, their target audience leens a bit younger (3-9 years), but hey the US has been doing the reverse for almost a decade now airing Kai and Super exclusively for adult audiences on Toonami, so who knows. We know aside from some mentions of "Hell" this Kai dub is probably extremely kid friendly so worth a shot.

Also, I know I wasn't around when you last posted, but welcome back to the forums.

[dbzforeverUK]

Can anyone confirm if Crunchyroll has released anything Dragonball related in Canada because if not it might be able to be distributed there if I’ve read everything else right?

Canada gets all the same home releases as America, so yes. At this moment Crunchyroll has released Super Hero and repackaged Funimation's season Blu-Rays and GT The Complete Series in both territories, but theoretically they should still have the rights to everything else, like Kai, even if the existing copies retain Funimation's branding. The only way a distributor can work around this to get a physical release of Kai out in North America or the UK is if Crunchyroll lose the rights, and unfortunately even if Kai goes out of print it doesn't mean they lost the license.

I know that Ajay had a contact at Manga UK, and he was able to pull some strings with certain decisions they made, like fixing a subtitling error on Super Broly and advising them against releasing the 2013/14 Blu-Rays in the UK (which they did). Manga UK is now the London office of Crunchyroll and seem to have lost whatever autonomy they had (which was little to begin with but since being bought by Funimation it has seemingly become nothing) so it's a long shot to consider them doing anything exclusively for us here in Europe anymore. I also don't know if the same team still work at the company, other than Josh Pittaway (who I've spoken to on Discord and he was really helpful but is harder to reach now) or David Martinez (who may or may not still work there, his LinkedIn is not very clear), but if anyone can help with talking to the company, who has enough reach within this community it's definitely Ajay.

I've suggested this before, but there is a new UK kids channel called Moochi we could try pitching Kai too, their target audience leens a bit younger (3-9 years), but hey the US has been doing the reverse for almost a decade now airing Kai and Super exclusively for adult audiences on Toonami, so who knows. We know aside from some mentions of "Hell" this Kai dub is probably extremely kid friendly so worth a shot.

Also, I know I wasn't around when you last posted, but welcome back to the forums.

Thank you it’s good to be back aswell , I’ve been keeping an eye on things from time to time but feel it’s now or never for Kai. I’ve just been doing a bit of looking around and Crunchyroll can be messaged on instagram so it’s worth a shot right? The reason I mentioned Shenmue 3 earlier was because this dub of Kai has now entered that sort of limbo and thanks to everyone here discussing it and putting time into trying to establish the who’s and what’s of this dub we can now try and coordinate an effort into making it known to the rights holders that we definitely want this dub and that some of, if not most would pay for the privilege of watching it aswell. On a side note maybe getting a few of the voice actors involved to help create public awareness for it might help gather support especially if a kickstarter was to happen?

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

I’ve just been doing a bit of looking around and Crunchyroll can be messaged on instagram so it’s worth a shot right? The reason I mentioned Shenmue 3 earlier was because this dub of Kai has now entered that sort of limbo and thanks to everyone here discussing it and putting time into trying to establish the who’s and what’s of this dub we can now try and coordinate an effort into making it known to the rights holders that we definitely want this dub and that some of, if not most would pay for the privilege of watching it aswell. On a side note maybe getting a few of the voice actors involved to help create public awareness for it might help gather support especially if a kickstarter was to happen?

Admittedly I don't know anything about Shenmue 3, but everything you say sounds great. I feel because Ocean Kai is such a unique case of a project for a high-profile IP that's been missing in action for such an extraordinary length of time it's hard to convince people, because so many fans who would have liked to see it have given up by now and they feel their doubts have been vindicated. Equally if it were to be released it would send a positive message should the release of another production ever get held up this much again, people would be like "Oh, but remember that Canadian dub of Dragon Ball Kai no one ever thought would be seen?".

Even Karl Willems said he wasn't aware it wasn't released, he just assumed it was, as he's directed many anime dubs over the years, said sometimes things get delayed, but when he heard Kai wasn't released (maybe even many years after he assumed it would be) he just thought that was a shame. He's not usually interested in the logistical side of these things, but he said he would make enquiries and see is there any paperwork with information about what's the holdup. Now he could do that, but that begs the question would the powers that be share this with him? Like the actors, this stuff is generally none of their business and is for those above their pay grade to manage.

So, sure, any of us could talk to Ken Morrison, but for all we know he's probably been negotiating with distributors, channels, whatever the past 14 years, more aggressively at the beginning when Kai was the new hotness, but naturally less so now because so many companies just said no, or in rare cases expressed interest

• Kix : Prior to Kai's UK debut in 2012 we heard from a reliable source Subzero Ice Ocean's dub was close to being released, but they got Funi Kai for still unknown reasons
  • Subzero Ice said TOEI only gave Kix the option of Funimation's dub, though other credible rumours suggest Funimation pulled some strings to prevent Ocean's dub being on the table
• Wow Unlimited :Showed interested, talked to Ocean but didn't have the money to launch a linear channel
• Toon-A-Vision : Talked to Ken Morrison, he said, at the time Ocean had other priorities, but then after I messaged Adam Mimnagh he emailed Ken again who told him it was up to the head office in Japan and they would hear back in January 2021

So we had two established channels that tried, we have no idea why one (Kix) aired Kai but with a different dub than what was expected, and I've never been given an update on the other (Toon-A-Vision). Adam Mimnagh went silent on me after that and didn't respond to any more of my Facebook messages. I was taking that as a good sign he signed an NDA and couldn't say any more until Kai was released, but it's been over 3 years now, so I don't know if he wasn't willing to pay what TOEI of Japan was asking for the license or they just said no.

Lisa Yamatoya of TOEI USA was willing to discuss options with Marni Shulman of Wow Unlimited, but then tried to suggest Funimation's dub on the basis of it being HD and The Final Chapter's being completed. It may be the case that Lisa tried a similar tactic with Kix and for that reason Ocean Kai didn't pass negotiations with TOEI USA to move up to the final stage with TOEI of Japan.

I am only guessing but if Ken Morrison told Adam Mimnagh the decision was in the hands of "the head office in Japan" (in Mimnagh's words to me, we know that's the main TOEI headquarters) then Toon-A-Vision must have got past that point with TOEI USA (which was promising at the time) an Kix didn't. Presumably Wow Unlimited did too because many of us who tweeted Marni Shulman asked her to be sure she was getting the rights for Ocean's dub, not Funimations, and she said she would keep that in mind. I believe if Wow had the resources to launch their channel it would have happened. Maybe Adam Mimnagh is waiting around for a better deal but sadly I don't think he can tell me any more than he already has, given his silence.

There's been another strong rumour Ocean approached one channel on and off for many years about getting Kai released but gave up when they made it absolutely clear they were not interested. I wouldn't be surprised if the channel in question was YTV as they have a history with this franchise, and would be the most logical option for the series to return to. YTV has largely moved away from anime unless they are super toy-centric like Pokemon or Beyblade. There may be people within the company who grew up watching Dragon Ball and want this dub to be released, as they said at one point they miss the franchise and paid tribute to Akira Toriyama. It's usually low ranking staff who run these socials, so even if this is the case they are probably powerless unless they move up within the company, in any case we've no reason to suspect whoever is in charge of YTV doesn't have any interest in airing Ocean Kai, and we can only hope for a shakeup in management or the current execs to step down and for someone who cares to take their place.

For what it's worth Diana Gage did tell SX10 people should express their desire for this dub to be released. Anime Time Machine (who do livestreams every month or so on Instagram I urge everyone to follow) told me the same thing, that fans should keep talking about Ocean Kai if they want it released. Admittedly Anime Time Machine is just a group of voice actors and Karl Willems and Diana Gage as the creative supervisor of this production and many more dubs is above them, so they are likely just echoing what she said.

In any case at one point Ocean were adamant about keeping this dub a secret, VegettoEX was even asked to have mentions of it removed by an unnamed party, and Richard Ian Cox refuses to acknowledge being a part of it. Based on what Diana Gage told SX10 though, it seems as if their stance softened somewhat, so maybe Ocean realised they weren't fooling anyone. No one was supposed to know about this dub, but news about it being in the works leaked, inspiring this 379-page thread, which I agree is proof enough that there are those of us who want it released.

That was the biggest issue with a Kickstarter in the beginning, TheBlackPaladin feared if Ocean got word they were working on Kai the whole thing would be shut down and hurt its chances of being released more. Now we know because several of us here have spoke with Ocean directly, they know the cats out of the bag, and have likely just accepted people need to talk about it because otherwise it will just be forgotten and there will be even less reason for companies like Crunchyroll or broadcasters to care.

I think any opportunity we get to speak to the voice actors and spread the word about spreading awareness of this dub. Robo4900 suggested tweet campaigns with hastags, which I could see work, but it would have to have a large backing. VegettoEX said he wants none of it, which is disappointing but not surprising as he's made it crystal clear he doesn't care about English dubs and this site is for promotion of the original Japanese version (which is fine, but so many of us enjoy dubs too, and I feel every version of this show should be celebrated). I wish Geekdom101 would help, he's apparently said most of his audience are people who watched the series on Toonami, hell a lot of them are casual fans and not even aware there is an Ocean dub of Kai, but someone with a large following like him would have more sway than the vast majority of us. Brian Drummond would probably be willing, he really understood fan's frustration and has asked his production co-ordinator (who I assume is Diana Gage) a few times but to no avail. Maybe if he tried something like this that fans can quote, retweet and use the hashtag, and if we make some noise something can happen:

Who wants to hear some good screams for old times sake #I'mVegeta #ReleasetheOceandubofKai

[dbzforeverUK]

I’ve just been doing a bit of looking around and Crunchyroll can be messaged on instagram so it’s worth a shot right? The reason I mentioned Shenmue 3 earlier was because this dub of Kai has now entered that sort of limbo and thanks to everyone here discussing it and putting time into trying to establish the who’s and what’s of this dub we can now try and coordinate an effort into making it known to the rights holders that we definitely want this dub and that some of, if not most would pay for the privilege of watching it aswell. On a side note maybe getting a few of the voice actors involved to help create public awareness for it might help gather support especially if a kickstarter was to happen?

Admittedly I don't know anything about Shenmue 3, but everything you say sounds great. I feel because Ocean Kai is such a unique case of a project for a high-profile IP that's been missing in action for such an extraordinary length of time it's hard to convince people, because so many fans who would have liked to see it have given up by now and they feel their doubts have been vindicated. Equally if it were to be released it would send a positive message should the release of another production ever get held up this much again, people would be like "Oh, but remember that Canadian dub of Dragon Ball Kai no one ever thought would be seen?".

Even Karl Willems said he wasn't aware it wasn't released, he just assumed it was, as he's directed many anime dubs over the years, said sometimes things get delayed, but when he heard Kai wasn't released (maybe even many years after he assumed it would be) he just thought that was a shame. He's not usually interested in the logistical side of these things, but he said he would make enquiries and see is there any paperwork with information about what's the holdup. Now he could do that, but that begs the question would the powers that be share this with him? Like the actors, this stuff is generally none of their business and is for those above their pay grade to manage.

So, sure, any of us could talk to Ken Morrison, but for all we know he's probably been negotiating with distributors, channels, whatever the past 14 years, more aggressively at the beginning when Kai was the new hotness, but naturally less so now because so many companies just said no, or in rare cases expressed interest

• Kix : Prior to Kai's UK debut in 2012 we heard from a reliable source Subzero Ice Ocean's dub was close to being released, but they got Funi Kai for still unknown reasons
  • Subzero Ice said TOEI only gave Kix the option of Funimation's dub, though other credible rumours suggest Funimation pulled some strings to prevent Ocean's dub being on the table
• Wow Unlimited :Showed interested, talked to Ocean but didn't have the money to launch a linear channel
• Toon-A-Vision : Talked to Ken Morrison, he said, at the time Ocean had other priorities, but then after I messaged Adam Mimnagh he emailed Ken again who told him it was up to the head office in Japan and they would hear back in January 2021

So we had two established channels that tried, we have no idea why one (Kix) aired Kai but with a different dub than what was expected, and I've never been given an update on the other (Toon-A-Vision). Adam Mimnagh went silent on me after that and didn't respond to any more of my Facebook messages. I was taking that as a good sign he signed an NDA and couldn't say any more until Kai was released, but it's been over 3 years now, so I don't know if he wasn't willing to pay what TOEI of Japan was asking for the license or they just said no.

Lisa Yamatoya of TOEI USA was willing to discuss options with Marni Shulman of Wow Unlimited, but then tried to suggest Funimation's dub on the basis of it being HD and The Final Chapter's being completed. It may be the case that Lisa tried a similar tactic with Kix and for that reason Ocean Kai didn't pass negotiations with TOEI USA to move up to the final stage with TOEI of Japan.

I am only guessing but if Ken Morrison told Adam Mimnagh the decision was in the hands of "the head office in Japan" (in Mimnagh's words to me, we know that's the main TOEI headquarters) then Toon-A-Vision must have got past that point with TOEI USA (which was promising at the time) an Kix didn't. Presumably Wow Unlimited did too because many of us who tweeted Marni Shulman asked her to be sure she was getting the rights for Ocean's dub, not Funimations, and she said she would keep that in mind. I believe if Wow had the resources to launch their channel it would have happened. Maybe Adam Mimnagh is waiting around for a better deal but sadly I don't think he can tell me any more than he already has, given his silence.

There's been another strong rumour Ocean approached one channel on and off for many years about getting Kai released but gave up when they made it absolutely clear they were not interested. I wouldn't be surprised if the channel in question was YTV as they have a history with this franchise, and would be the most logical option for the series to return to. YTV has largely moved away from anime unless they are super toy-centric like Pokemon or Beyblade. There may be people within the company who grew up watching Dragon Ball and want this dub to be released, as they said at one point they miss the franchise and paid tribute to Akira Toriyama. It's usually low ranking staff who run these socials, so even if this is the case they are probably powerless unless they move up within the company, in any case we've no reason to suspect whoever is in charge of YTV doesn't have any interest in airing Ocean Kai, and we can only hope for a shakeup in management or the current execs to step down and for someone who cares to take their place.

For what it's worth Diana Gage did tell SX10 people should express their desire for this dub to be released. Anime Time Machine (who do livestreams every month or so on Instagram I urge everyone to follow) told me the same thing, that fans should keep talking about Ocean Kai if they want it released. Admittedly Anime Time Machine is just a group of voice actors and Karl Willems and Diana Gage as the creative supervisor of this production and many more dubs is above them, so they are likely just echoing what she said.

In any case at one point Ocean were adamant about keeping this dub a secret, VegettoEX was even asked to have mentions of it removed by an unnamed party, and Richard Ian Cox refuses to acknowledge being a part of it. Based on what Diana Gage told SX10 though, it seems as if their stance softened somewhat, so maybe Ocean realised they weren't fooling anyone. No one was supposed to know about this dub, but news about it being in the works leaked, inspiring this 379-page thread, which I agree is proof enough that there are those of us who want it released.

That was the biggest issue with a Kickstarter in the beginning, TheBlackPaladin feared if Ocean got word they were working on Kai the whole thing would be shut down and hurt its chances of being released more. Now we know because several of us here have spoke with Ocean directly, they know the cats out of the bag, and have likely just accepted people need to talk about it because otherwise it will just be forgotten and there will be even less reason for companies like Crunchyroll or broadcasters to care.

I think any opportunity we get to speak to the voice actors and spread the word about spreading awareness of this dub. Robo4900 suggested tweet campaigns with hastags, which I could see work, but it would have to have a large backing. VegettoEX said he wants none of it, which is disappointing but not surprising as he's made it crystal clear he doesn't care about English dubs and this site is for promotion of the original Japanese version (which is fine, but so many of us enjoy dubs too, and I feel every version of this show should be celebrated). I wish Geekdom101 would help, he's apparently said most of his audience are people who watched the series on Toonami, hell a lot of them are casual fans and not even aware there is an Ocean dub of Kai, but someone with a large following like him would have more sway than the vast majority of us. Brian Drummond would probably be willing, he really understood fan's frustration and has asked his production co-ordinator (who I assume is Diana Gage) a few times but to no avail. Maybe if he tried something like this that fans can quote, retweet and use the hashtag, and if we make some noise something can happen:

Who wants to hear some good screams for old times sake #I'mVegeta #ReleasetheOceandubofKai

Wow thank you for the run down it’s definitely helpful for those out of the loop or new to the discussion in general, but I agree with everything you’ve said and it’s great to hear others are still just as passionate about ocean Kai, I think a monthly tweet/ hashtag on socials aimed at toei and Crunchyroll could be the way to go about and it would be a great way to gauge interest, a bit like an Ocean dub spirit bomb! It’s a similar tactic the shenmue fans did in getting Sony to help with there game.