SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:59 am
I'm not judging you for criticizing Super, I criticize the Manga all the time, but I do say that it is pointless to complain about Super milking the franchise. The franchise was already being milked in the 1990s with the yearly Toei movies which are a just reskin of "Goku fights strong guy, Goku gets mad and activates transformation, Goku kills strong guy".
If it makes you feel any better, I don't have a great opinion of the Z movies either.
SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:59 am
And when I talk about "Nostalgia", I am not saying that ALL the criticism for Super narrows down to nostalgia, but I know that there is nostalgia involved, because I have seen all the criticism that was levied against the Cell and Buu saga in the past, and most of that criticism is now applied exclusively to Super.
Stuff like "the protagonists being dumb", that was used in the past to criticize the Cell saga and Buu saga, now it is used exclusively to criticize Goku forgetting the Mafuba seal against Zamasu.
Stuff like "the asspulls and retcons", that was used in the past to criticize the Cell saga and Buu saga, now it is used exclusively to criticize Caulifla for getting Super Saiyan so easily (we'll just ignore Goten and Trunks).
In other words, both DBZ and GT got a popularity boost with the release of Super, because there is a form of recency bias that makes people latch onto the latest product for criticism.
I don't know who they were, but they're not me.
I've been criticizing that shit even before I got to Super.
I will definitely agree with you on the point that fans seem extremely partial to Dragon Ball Z because they grew up with it.
Using GT as an example here, you can't tell the amount of times I have heard the argument that the first 16 episodes suck because, and I quote, "The heroes don't seem to care about their situation. If the characters themselves don't care, then why should I?"
And my natural reaction to that is basically, "Oh, I would
love to hear your opinion about the Cell arc."
SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:59 am
Simple, Super is much closer to the whimsical nature of Dragon Ball than the Cell saga.
The Cell saga has pretty much none of the fun and light-hearted stuff that distinguish Dragon Ball, it's overly edgy and serious.
Meanwhile, Super is MUCH closer to the roots of Dragon Ball in terms of being a whimsical show where fighters just want to have a fun brawl and show-off their martial skills.
There was never a moment in the original Dragon Ball where genocide was threatened and everyone acted so casual about it.
The first time it happened (King Piccolo), everybody started acting serious and made plans to stop it.
And even if the original DB never existed and Super was all there was, a concept as bleak as existential erasure is very much not "whimsical and fun." Your mileage might vary, but I very much didn't have fun with that.
SupremeKai25 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2024 5:59 am
The fighters do care that the Universes get erased, that is why they are constantly being pushed to higher heights of power, to overcome their opponents. The stakes are that high. The difference is that they simply don't wallow in their misery and are not overly edgy and sentimental like the Cell saga.
They do? Because the writers sure didn't convince me on that. The thought of using the Dragon Balls to resurrect everyone didn't even occur to any of them up until the very last moment, because before of that:
#17: "If you won, what would you wish for?"
Goku: "Eh, I don't want anything, really. How about we wish for a boat?
"