ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Vegetto95
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Vegetto95 » Tue May 07, 2024 1:09 pm

Kunzait_83 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 5:00 am Baby Boomers have, broadly speaking as a collective whole anyway, just about never cared that much about their childhood cartoons. Baby Boomers are plenty nostalgic, but generally they most often tend to get nostalgic about stuff from their younger adulthoods, roughly around college age and onward. Music, cars, cultural events, stuff like that.

There's certainly a tiny little bit of nostalgia from them for stuff like old Hanna-Barbera cartoons every now and then, but that always takes a firm backseat (rightly so) to stuff like The Beatles, Elvis, civil rights protests, the hippie movement, etc.
That honestly has 100% been my experience. I spent a lot of time around baby boomers throughout my teens and early adult years just by proxy of spending time with my parents and their friend group. I've NEVER, not even ONCE, heard my parents or their peers wax nostalgic about The Flintstones or Scooby-Doo, Where Are You!, despite the fact that they were little kids (and thus the target demographic) in the mid-late 60s when those cartoons aired. The number of times I've heard them talk about how amazing it was to go to see The Who and The Rolling Stones and The Grateful Dead live, however... :lol:

Hell, I just had a super fun, several hours-long conversation a few weeks ago with my dad's best friend who he met in college in the late 70s (they're both in their mid-60s now) and my grandfather (late 80s) who were visiting my parents when my dad was in the hospital, and at one point, we talked for probably at least 20-30 minutes straight JUST about the kinds of cars they drove in the late-60s and 70s. And the rest of it was almost exclusively the fun things they did in college and after, the pranks they would play on each other, or my granddad telling stories about my dad's childhood (none of which involved cartoons lol).

Like, I get different generations often in general are into different things, but in my experience, Gen Xers and especially boomers and the silent generation tend MUCH more often to be nostalgic about actual life experiences that they had in their teens and 20s, and generally don't give a shit about the vapid kiddy cartoons they watched in their adolescent years.
I've seen more than my share of Zoomers viciously and mercilessly roast millennials for the cartoon/childhood fixation in ways that make anything I've ever said about it publicly on these forums seem absolutely tame and benign in comparison, and it never, ever fails to make me cackle in delight anytime it happens. :lol: Its certainly way the hell long past overdue at this point.
I'm nearly 32 and *I* have to make fun of my fellow millennials for that on the regular! Hell, I went on a date with a 28 year old woman just a few weeks ago, and we at one point started talking about the movies we like. She, an almost 30 year old grown woman... had basically had no interest in ANYTHING that wasn't Disney or Star Wars or Marvel or Harry Potter. She LITERALLY told me that she only likes watching movies that she can "turn her brain off" to. She, of course, shifted the blame for that onto her job, saying that, as a veterinarian technician, she "already gets too much stress at work!". And I'm just thinking to myself "Honey, that's NOT a your job problem... that's a YOU problem. I too have a stressful job that I despise, but I still come home and LOVE to watch stuff like Requiem for a Dream, Barry Lyndon, Once Upon a Time in America, Natural Born Killers, Glengarry Glenn Ross, The Hustler, Scent of a Woman, or Synecdoche, New York because I (SHOCKER, I KNOW!!) like movies (and shows and books and whatnot) that I can actually intellectually engage with!"

Needless to say... I wasn't exactly interested in a second date lmao. But yeah... I can't help but be just a taaaaad judgmental of my own generation when I see, for example (and I HAVE seen PLENTY of these) grown men in their 30s and up who genuinely, sincerely, with a completely straight face, say that they think He-Man and the Masters of the Universe and Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers are some of the best television shows EVER made, despite easily being old enough to have kids of their own of the age that those shows were ACTUALLY targeted towards. It just does NOT seem healthy or normal at ALL for people that age to not be able to (or more often than not, not WANT to) intellectually engage with media written for fully grown, functioning adults. That's something I've never, EVER experienced from my myriad interactions with the older generations.

Like, I GET the whole "desire for escapism to a 'simpler time' because 'adulting' is just so hard and scaaawy" (but ONLY to a certain point) because, yeah... EVERYTHING absolutely has been stacked against millennials going into adulthood when we did with all this horrible, debilitating wealth inequality. I don't agree with it, but I do understand it. What I don't understand at all is why that somehow causes so many grown adults in their 20s and 30s to absolutely refuse to check out things like The Grapes of Wrath, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, All the President's Men, No Country for Old Men, or The Age of Innocence (and god forbid they ever read a single page of the amazing books that they were adapted from). And I've met MANY millennials like that both online AND in real life. The woman I mentioned above was only one recent, notable example. I know you, Kunzait, have brought this whole childhood nostalgia-obsessed millennial mindset up MANY times over the years, and that's because, like you said, it HAS been a very widespread issue across an entire generation of Americans for quite some time now. And if that's seemingly starting to change, GOOD.

On the flipside, though... yeeeeaahh, the less of Gen X'ers and Boomers calling millennials "lazy" because we can't find good jobs that pay us enough to move out on our own, simply because they don't understand that it was in part their spending habits, but much more so the vast multitude of horrible conservative and neo-centrist corporate goon politicians they voted for in the 70s and 80s (and continue to vote for to this day) that made that the case... THAT'S the kind of "boomers and GenXers mocking millennials" I could do with (a LOT) less of. Oh yeah, let's just ignore allll those studies that say that millennials are actually the hardest working generation (because they kinda HAVE to be) :lol: :roll:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 07, 2024 2:00 pm

Throwing my own two cents/personal experience about the whole millennial manchildren phenomenon. While, I agree millennials by and large are far more fixated on their childhood entertainment than any other generation, I dunno, in my experience most of us are more nostalgic for things from our teenage/young adult years than stuff as kids. I've seen way more irl nostalgia for things like guys wearing skinny jeans in high school, the Snooki hair bump, 2000s emo and pop punk subcultures, and generally popular music from around 2005- 2012 ish. The hyper obsession with the likes of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and Yugioh seems to only exist on internet circles like tumble and TV Tropes and YouTube comments. Stuff like that rarely goes beyond "that was awesome when I was 7" irl


On the flipside, as someone who had to attend a Harry Potter themed wedding and has way too many friends on Facebook with Hogwarts listed as their education and know their "school house" and make it their personality...yeah that shit is way out of hand even if the author wasn't a piece of shit.

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue May 07, 2024 3:54 pm

As much as I like kids stuff, I definitely know NOT TO LET IT dominate my life, sure it does dominate my online presence but OMG a Harry Potter wedding WTF.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 07, 2024 4:26 pm

Everyday I am thankful for never getting into Harry Potter.

I'm always of two minds when it comes to discussing the art that adults consume, and then doing such on a generational level. There's always a lot of factors to consider, and as a member of intersecting disabled communities myself, as well as communities where people didn't get to have a childhood, I think it's always inportant to give people leeway.

That being said, I am absolutely silently judging anyone into Hary Potter in this day and age where that evil bitch is ruining the lives of queer folks on a cultural and legislative level.

I think a wide variety a different kind of art consumption is always important to have, but I, like, The Arts aren't the only thing that people have to do, so I also grt just not having the time for it all.

I've recently been getting through a number of really good dramas and classic film, even when it's not good. Like, I say through Heat (1995) because I wanted to see Al Pacino be Al Pacino for 3 hours. It wasn’t a particularly good film, but hey, who doesn't love Al Pacino playing a coked up Al Pacino?!

Actually, I watched Challengers (2024) the other day! Every moment of that film had me on the edge of my feet, although it's a film for a bisexuals, so the 'tennis is sex' message might not hit for cishet folks unless you know to look for it and how to real thinly veiled flirting between men.

On a closing thought, I think that Dragon Ball is the Disney Adult's anime. It's generic and mainstream enough with a 25+ year fandom in the US alone to build up the mystique of its importance and nostalgia.
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue May 07, 2024 5:33 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:26 pm

On a closing thought, I think that Dragon Ball is the Disney Adult's anime. It's generic and mainstream enough with a 25+ year fandom in the US alone to build up the mystique of its importance and nostalgia.
I'd take it a step further and say Shonen anime in general is the Disney Adult's anime.

The venn diagram between shonen anime fans, Disney adults, MCU fans and Potter fans is almost always a perfect circle

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 07, 2024 5:39 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 5:33 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 4:26 pm

On a closing thought, I think that Dragon Ball is the Disney Adult's anime. It's generic and mainstream enough with a 25+ year fandom in the US alone to build up the mystique of its importance and nostalgia.
I'd take it a step further and say Shonen anime in general is the Disney Adult's anime.

The venn diagram between shonen anime fans, Disney adults, MCU fans and Potter fans is almost always a perfect circle
Oh, absolutely, I was just going with a singular franchise, but Shounen and JUMP specifically all capture the same type of adult fan who doesn't know how to really engage with art beyond nostalgia.
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue May 07, 2024 6:16 pm

I personally don't put much stock into these generational stereotypes. In my experience, there are way too many exceptions for them to be worth anything and all categories have their share of wankers :lol: I know plenty of millennials who are just "normal" and well-adjusted humans with regular, boring interests; I know plenty of boomers and gen-xers who are still weirdly obsessed with objects of childhood nostalgia, including old cartoons and sci-fi shows; and I know plenty of zoomers who are way more socially stunted than most millennials I've met. For my part, I find it unlikely that a zoomer would tell a millennial to "go do a line of coke" as a mic drop; the most stereotypical zoomers I've met are waaay too prudish and sheltered for that hardcore shit, lol (though there are definitely some fake gangsta dipshits out there, just like in every other generation).

The older I get, the fewer people I know in any demographic range who are completely consumed by their media interests. I get the feeling that the overall social pendulum has swung away from promoting that as some kind of badge of honour. Diversity in passions seems to be all the rage for all generations now; nobody wants to just be known as "the qualified Batman scholar" that Alan Moore once met at a convention. Even if I know a couple people who are still really into Harry Potter, that's far from all they have going for them.

Also, let's be really real here, guys... are we really ones to judge anyone else for their weird hyperfixated interests when we're here, sitting at our PCs, talking on a niche Dragon Ball fan forum? I've tried to justify myself as some artsier-than-thou ponce before who's only here for the intellectual discussion, but having over a thousand posts here kinda undermines any high horse I could put myself on :lol: :lol:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Tue May 07, 2024 6:33 pm

I don't see anything wrong in pointing out that a significant portion of the Dragon Ball fanbase is made up of nostalgic Millennials. The evidence is before our eyes.

Super Broly, the highest-grossing Dragon Ball movie, a simple Nostalgia rehash of DBZ Broly.

Super Hero, the second highest-grossing DB movie, an even more obvious Nostalgia bait of that terrible Cell saga. (that benefits immensely from the Nostalgia bonus)

Zamasu and Moro (two original villains) losing and being destroyed in one arc while Frieza (ooooold villain) features in three Super arcs and counting.

Oh boy, I can't WAIT for the next arc and to see more of Frieza! It will totally be like my childhood all over again! A new and original villain? What's that? I need MORE Frieza!! :roll:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Dr. Casey » Tue May 07, 2024 7:45 pm

Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:09 pmI'm nearly 32 and *I* have to make fun of my fellow millennials for that on the regular! Hell, I went on a date with a 28 year old woman just a few weeks ago, and we at one point started talking about the movies we like. She, an almost 30 year old grown woman... had basically had no interest in ANYTHING that wasn't Disney or Star Wars or Marvel or Harry Potter. She LITERALLY told me that she only likes watching movies that she can "turn her brain off" to. She, of course, shifted the blame for that onto her job, saying that, as a veterinarian technician, she "already gets too much stress at work!". And I'm just thinking to myself "Honey, that's NOT a your job problem... that's a YOU problem. I too have a stressful job that I despise, but I still come home and LOVE to watch stuff like Requiem for a Dream, Barry Lyndon, Once Upon a Time in America, Natural Born Killers, Glengarry Glenn Ross, The Hustler, Scent of a Woman, or Synecdoche, New York because I (SHOCKER, I KNOW!!) like movies (and shows and books and whatnot) that I can actually intellectually engage with!"

Needless to say... I wasn't exactly interested in a second date lmao.
I dunno, I think this is taking things a little too far. I can understand disliking the overall aggregate trend, but if you're giving strangers on a first date a hard time over their media tastes (or policing any individual's tastes, for that matter) then it might be time to dial things back. I have always completely understood people disliking the trend itself, but have likewise always disliked the idea of wrinkling your nose at specific individuals.
MasenkoHA wrote:Throwing my own two cents/personal experience about the whole millennial manchildren phenomenon. While, I agree millennials by and large are far more fixated on their childhood entertainment than any other generation, I dunno, in my experience most of us are more nostalgic for things from our teenage/young adult years than stuff as kids. I've seen way more irl nostalgia for things like guys wearing skinny jeans in high school, the Snooki hair bump, 2000s emo and pop punk subcultures, and generally popular music from around 2005- 2012 ish. The hyper obsession with the likes of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and Yugioh seems to only exist on internet circles like tumble and TV Tropes and YouTube comments. Stuff like that rarely goes beyond "that was awesome when I was 7" irl
All of this is completely true.
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Vegetto95 » Tue May 07, 2024 8:25 pm

Dr. Casey wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 7:45 pm
Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:09 pmI'm nearly 32 and *I* have to make fun of my fellow millennials for that on the regular! Hell, I went on a date with a 28 year old woman just a few weeks ago, and we at one point started talking about the movies we like. She, an almost 30 year old grown woman... had basically had no interest in ANYTHING that wasn't Disney or Star Wars or Marvel or Harry Potter. She LITERALLY told me that she only likes watching movies that she can "turn her brain off" to. She, of course, shifted the blame for that onto her job, saying that, as a veterinarian technician, she "already gets too much stress at work!". And I'm just thinking to myself "Honey, that's NOT a your job problem... that's a YOU problem. I too have a stressful job that I despise, but I still come home and LOVE to watch stuff like Requiem for a Dream, Barry Lyndon, Once Upon a Time in America, Natural Born Killers, Glengarry Glenn Ross, The Hustler, Scent of a Woman, or Synecdoche, New York because I (SHOCKER, I KNOW!!) like movies (and shows and books and whatnot) that I can actually intellectually engage with!"

Needless to say... I wasn't exactly interested in a second date lmao.
I dunno, I think this is taking things a little too far. I can understand disliking the overall aggregate trend, but if you're giving strangers on a first date a hard time over their media tastes (or policing any individual's tastes, for that matter) then it might be time to dial things back. I have always completely understood people disliking the trend itself, but have likewise always disliked the idea of wrinkling your nose at specific individuals.
I NEVER said I gave her a hard time on the date... I said I thought all that TO MYSELF. As in, in my own head. I have enough social awareness to know how to let people down easy without coming off like a judgmental asshole to their faces lol

But you seemed to have missed my point. I don't have a problem with people liking your generic geek/nerd pop culture children's media in and of itself, I have a good few of those things I love, I'm on a Dragon Ball forum for chrissakes... but when someone who is a full 28 years of age SOLELY consumes that kind of thing, and not only lacks any interest in any media made for grown adults, but actively AVOIDS it and instead takes emotional shelter in the kids' movies and shows that remind them of their youth, again, TO THE EXCLUSION OF ALL ELSE... yeah, Imma find that just a liiiiittle weird. I don't exactly feel comfortable dating someone whose movie tastes are equivalent to that of an eight year old lmao (And in all honesty... that wasn't the only thing that weirded me out about her. Ohhhh noo... let's just say, she's one of the more... cultlike... of Taylor Swift's fans... and had some VEEEERY troubling, mentally unhealthy opinions about Taylor's various exes simply because they're her exes... it was honestly kinda scary, ngl... :silent: )

I'm NEVER gonna police someone's tastes and tell them what to watch or tell them that they're an idiot for liking something that I find to be insanely childish... but at the same time, that ain't gonna stop me from silently judging them for putting chains on themselves for no sensible reason that stop them from looking into anything beyond the tween demographic, even when they're pushing 30. Part of me is just gonna see that and be think to myself "Grow up".

Because let's be real... that causes the overall IQ of society to go down a bit. People like that are the reason that incredibly artistic, intelligent directors who know their craft and are dedicated to making truly great films like Martin Scorsese, Christopher Nolan, Quentin Tarantino, and Oliver Stone have for the last few years been (justifiably) complaining about insipid, mindless, factory-churned crap like the MCU and Bayformers and The Fast and the Furious increasingly taking over theaters and driving out more intelligent adult fare. It's to the point where David Fincher's newest film, The Killer, opened to only a few hundred theaters for only a week or two last year, around the same time that poorly-written, tired franchise garbage like The Marvels and The Flash opened to SEVERAL THOUSAND theaters for over a month each (and yet both still lost hundreds of millions of dollars because most people are FINALLY tiring of these stale, godawful superhero film franchises. Way too fucking little, way too fucking late.)

Seriously though... DAVID FUCKING FINCHER. If you told me ten years ago that the newest film by the guy responsible for Fight Club, Se7en, The Social Network, The Curious Case of Benjamin Button, and Gone Girl would be shoved waaaay over into the corner, I'd have called you a liar. And yet here we are. Are you seriously gonna tell me that the nostalgia epidemic and audiences putting WAAAAAY too much emphasis on children's franchises that have LOOOONG since run their course isn't at least in some sizeable way a large part of that? The average audience members for The Super Mario Bros. Movie last year were in general around 30 years old, despite it being a silly, braindead movie CLEARLY aimed squarely at six year olds, with bad voice acting and ZERO plot, full of nothing but empty, useless references to 20-30 year old games that people could easily just play at home... and yet that dull dud of a "movie" made almost a billion and a half bucks. It's pathetic.
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Dr. Casey » Tue May 07, 2024 8:37 pm

Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 8:25 pm
Dr. Casey wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 7:45 pm
Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:09 pmI'm nearly 32 and *I* have to make fun of my fellow millennials for that on the regular! Hell, I went on a date with a 28 year old woman just a few weeks ago, and we at one point started talking about the movies we like. She, an almost 30 year old grown woman... had basically had no interest in ANYTHING that wasn't Disney or Star Wars or Marvel or Harry Potter. She LITERALLY told me that she only likes watching movies that she can "turn her brain off" to. She, of course, shifted the blame for that onto her job, saying that, as a veterinarian technician, she "already gets too much stress at work!". And I'm just thinking to myself "Honey, that's NOT a your job problem... that's a YOU problem. I too have a stressful job that I despise, but I still come home and LOVE to watch stuff like Requiem for a Dream, Barry Lyndon, Once Upon a Time in America, Natural Born Killers, Glengarry Glenn Ross, The Hustler, Scent of a Woman, or Synecdoche, New York because I (SHOCKER, I KNOW!!) like movies (and shows and books and whatnot) that I can actually intellectually engage with!"

Needless to say... I wasn't exactly interested in a second date lmao.
I dunno, I think this is taking things a little too far. I can understand disliking the overall aggregate trend, but if you're giving strangers on a first date a hard time over their media tastes (or policing any individual's tastes, for that matter) then it might be time to dial things back. I have always completely understood people disliking the trend itself, but have likewise always disliked the idea of wrinkling your nose at specific individuals.
I NEVER said I gave her a hard time on the date... I said I thought all that TO MYSELF. As in, in my own head. I have enough social awareness to know how to let people down easy without coming off like a judgmental asshole to their faces lol
Okay, that's good. I wasn't sure, but you said that she said something self-abasing about her own tastes, so I thought maybe you'd said something that would cause her to defend herself. I've always been uncomfortable with the idea of getting stuck too much on this 'manchild' thing because it can cause you to feel contempt and disgust towards perfectly good people who aren't really guilty of much of anything significant. I can, again, understand having a strong dislike for the overall paradigm, but this 'grrr manchildren' thing can result in demeaning the intelligence and maturity of people who don't deserve it. But it's your brain, think what you want. If you don't actually police anyone's tastes I guess that's all that matters.
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue May 07, 2024 8:38 pm

To be fair, you just said so yourself, audiences DID wise up and made those Marvel Superhero fests flop.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Vegetto95 » Tue May 07, 2024 8:54 pm

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 8:38 pm To be fair, you just said so yourself, audiences DID wise up and made those Marvel Superhero fests flop.
Well, I said that they FINALLY did. In 2023... last year lol

It's funny... 99.9% of the shit that people have been criticizing and ridiculing the MCU for for the last year or two at MOST is AAAALL shit I was saying about it waaay back in like 2013 lmao. The bad CGI, the annoying characters and godawful, cringey dialogue, the overly simplistic, cookie-cutter natures of their narratives, the boringass, charisma vacuum villains, all of it. I saw the writing on the wall with garbage movies like Thor: The Dark World and Iron Man 3 waaaay back in 2013, and those were the SEVENTH AND EIGHTH MCU films in only five years. That was MORE than enough for me to see that it was already stale af back then.

But no, the hype train kept it going, and kept millions upon millions of people from seeing how terribly written and full o' holes Infinity War and Endgame were. But yeah, it looks like all that's FINALLY beginning to subside, waaaaaaay past the point where it originally should have, and if that really is the case, then as I said a few posts ago... good lol

At the end of the day, I don't give a rat's butthole about upcoming films like Deadpool 3 or Transformers One or what have you... right now, I'm most excited for things like Viggo Mortensen in The Dead Don't Hurt, Barry Levinson's Alto Knights, Eastwood's Juror No. 2, Coppola's Megalopolis, Cronenberg's The Shrouds, and Kevin Costner's Horizon: An American Saga. And seeing things like Alto Knights (which has Robert Mothafuckin De Niro in a dual role as Vito Genovese and Frank Costello!!) basically getting ZERO press and Coppola, THE MAN WHO DIRECTED THE GODFATHER TRILOGY AND APOCALYPSE NOW, struggling to find a distributor for Megalopolis just makes me weep.

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Kunzait_83 » Tue May 07, 2024 9:21 pm

Dr. Casey wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 7:45 pmI dunno, I think this is taking things a little too far. I can understand disliking the overall aggregate trend, but if you're giving strangers on a first date a hard time over their media tastes (or policing any individual's tastes, for that matter) then it might be time to dial things back. I have always completely understood people disliking the trend itself, but have likewise always disliked the idea of wrinkling your nose at specific individuals.
I'm 1000% backing up what Dr. Casey is saying here.

Guys understand something... there is a WIIIIDE berth of a difference between talking about things on a mass/broad/macro/aggregate level (which is what I'd been doing in my previous post) versus on an individual level. Always, ALWAYS - with the most extreme and obvious of exceptions of course - be kind to individuals. This shouldn't be that difficult of a distinction to grasp here, but evidently it warrants repeating and highlighting.

I say this as someone who has dated more than my share of girls - including my current girlfriend, who I've been with for the last three and a half years now - who are into plenty of things I'm not into, up to and including most children's media.

For anyone who's seen the movie (or better yet, read the book) High Fidelity, understand something... Rob in that story (who spends the whole story obsessing over and judging other people based primarily, if not solely, on their taste in music, including girls he's dating) is a fucking asshole, and the arc of the story is Rob slowly realizing that he's a huge asshole and trying to change for the better at the end. He's not a "cool guy" up to that point, he's basically a hipster in the worst, most insufferable possible definition. Don't EVER be like Rob from High Fidelity in real life.

Its part of why me talking about this subject was something I spent long many years on this site avoiding: because I DON'T want to be needlessly shitty and cruel to individual people (including any number of people from this site, who have become good friends of mine over the years), and I also DEFINITELY, one million percent do I NOT want this subject to be taken as a license to bully people over it either.

Do I think this whole "obsessed with childhood nostalgic cartoons to the exclusion of adult media" thing is/was/has been deeply unhealthy and worth unpacking on a widespread/macro level? Obviously yes. Have I made lighthearted jokes about it from time to time (mostly for my own sanity's sake)? Sure, of course.

Do I think that the people, on an individual level, who engage with it - even on the most extreme end of the spectrum - deserve to be bullied, ostracized, and treated personally like shit for it? No. No. No. No. For the love of Christ, NOOOOOOO. NOBODY deserves that, certainly not for THIS either. Its also, frankly, not a great way to get those people to maybe take an introspective look at it and maybe change/broaden themselves onto other things either, needless to say (something which should be part of the whole point of examining this phenomenon).

And moreover - and Julie already alluded to this earlier, and I'm glad she did, because its what I have always wanted to put front and center of any kind of deep dive I would've theoretically done on this topic, as its basically one of THE key uniting factors in all this that makes me actually care enough about it to comment on it at all - a VAST majority of people who fall into this phenomenon tend to do so for DEEPLY, heartbreakingly sad reasons and circumstances, which are by and large NOT their fault whatso-fucking-ever.

Even in the previous post, where I highlighted Millennials getting roasted for it by Gen Z: there is a fine line between good natured ribbing/humor and outright just being a fucking dick and a bully. I honestly felt like I was keeping firmly to the former there (maybe I was wrong, but that's what I was aiming for there)... but under NO circumstances do I want people to take it as a license to treat people like genuine shit over this. Its counter-productive, unconstructive, and frankly just plain petty and spiteful.

Ultimately, my goal for even discussing this topic AT ALL would be for the people who DO fall under it to maybe come to understand that art for adults ISN'T scary or intimidating and it contains a LOT that is substantially more richly rewarding and worthwhile, and for them to feel positively welcomed into that realm and to seek out more of it.

That's ALWAYS been Goal Number One over all else for me with this particular subject: make people feel encouraged and welcomed to seek out better things for themselves and to not be intimidated. You can never accomplish that by alienating them further or tearing them down on a personal level. Moreover, you shouldn't even WANT to do that to someone for ANY reason.

One final time for the cheap seats: this subject is with regards to macro/broad/aggregate trends across a VAST swath of people. It is NOT, and never has been, about shaming and ostracizing people on an individual level.

A wise man once said "Be kind to people, and be ruthless to institutions". This nature of this whole topic isn't quite that of an "institution" per se (its more of a general mindset that's just gotten way out of hand), but the general spirit of the quote still stands and still applies to it.

Once again, the vast gulf of difference between unpacking a widespread/macro trend on a macro level as being not good and unhealthily extreme versus scrutinizing individual people on an individual level SHOULD NOT be a difficult distinction to grasp: and yet time and time and time again, I seem to have to keep re-centering and re-highlighting it 17,000 times per second for people here whenever this topic arises: which is a LARGE part of the reason why I've avoided talking about it publicly on here for the better part of 15 years now.

I'm against the macro trend of hyper-fixating on children's media to the detriment of adult media, but I am equally just as against devolving oneself into the "taste police" over it too. The former SHOULD NOT ever lead one into becoming the latter, and BOTH are unhealthy and detrimental extremes (the latter being even worse and more toxic in many ways than the former). I've been 1000% completely consistent on that specific point over the years anytime this subject as come up in private, off-forums discussions with various people.
Last edited by Kunzait_83 on Tue May 07, 2024 9:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Journey to the West, chapter 26 wrote:The strong man will meet someone stronger still:
Come to naught at last he surely will!
Zephyr wrote:And that's to say nothing of how pretty much impossible it is to capture what made the original run of the series so great. I'm in the generation of fans that started with Toonami, so I totally empathize with the feeling of having "missed the party", experiencing disappointment, and wanting to experience it myself. But I can't, that's how life is. Time is a bitch. The party is over. Kageyama, Kikuchi, and Maeda are off the sauce now; Yanami almost OD'd; Yamamoto got arrested; Toriyama's not going to light trash cans on fire and hang from the chandelier anymore. We can't get the band back together, and even if we could, everyone's either old, in poor health, or calmed way the fuck down. Best we're going to get, and are getting, is a party that's almost entirely devoid of the magic that made the original one so awesome that we even want more.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:It grinds my gears that people get "outraged" over any of this stuff. It's a fucking cartoon. If you are that determined to be angry about something, get off the internet and make a stand for something that actually matters.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Tue May 07, 2024 9:24 pm

I am so happy at the turn this thread took. Very thoughtful posts and analysis of the situation. I am so happy my thread could foster such discussion and such discussion would have never been possible without great members like you.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by JulieYBM » Tue May 07, 2024 10:24 pm

Disclaimer: my broken down ass spent, like, ninety minutes writing this post, so I apologize that it sort of turned into a messy jumble of shit, and I also apologize that it comes across as if I'm harping on-and-on, it's just that other people beat me to posting their responses to stuff, and now I'm playing catch up rofl.

The system of relying on franchises and nostalgia affects Hollywood and Japanese animation all the same. We see Toei Animation continually relying on evergreen titles for regular cash flow, meanwhile there's little in the way being invested in original anime anymore. The industry has dried up in that regard, because animation studios negotiate down to the bottom with IP rights holdlers and sponsors for producing the best anime as cheaply as possible, and the animation staff suffer as a result. I think that it's a real shame that we are seeing this in two major artistic pools.

That being said, a lot of the most exciting films that I've seen in US theaters as of late have all been from less than mainstream directors, ala Nolan, Tarantino, Scorsese and such. I think there's a problem when three old white men are the ones making the supposed tentpoles as opposed to franchise films taking up that space. There needs to be a shift to letting directors make more films and series outside of them.

One of my local friends keeps reccomending me the films of Gregg Araki and David Cronenberg, and I gotta get on those soon lol. But first, I gotta watch Past Lives (2023) and Monster (2023) >_<

To be honest, though, I think that I'm looking forward to a lot of these franchise titles hopefully dying off when we Millenials hopefully help the Zoomers overthrow capitalism. By then, and more directors can just live off of UBI and universal healthcare to make whatever films they want to.
Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 1:09 pm I'm nearly 32 and *I* have to make fun of my fellow millennials for that on the regular! Hell, I went on a date with a 28 year old woman just a few weeks ago, and we at one point started talking about the movies we like. She, an almost 30 year old grown woman... had basically had no interest in ANYTHING that wasn't Disney or Star Wars or Marvel or Harry Potter. She LITERALLY told me that she only likes watching movies that she can "turn her brain off" to. She, of course, shifted the blame for that onto her job, saying that, as a veterinarian technician, she "already gets too much stress at work!". And I'm just thinking to myself "Honey, that's NOT a your job problem... that's a YOU problem. I too have a stressful job that I despise, but I still come home and LOVE to watch stuff like Requiem for a Dream, Barry Lyndon, Once Upon a Time in America, Natural Born Killers, Glengarry Glenn Ross, The Hustler, Scent of a Woman, or Synecdoche, New York because I (SHOCKER, I KNOW!!) like movies (and shows and books and whatnot) that I can actually intellectually engage with!"

Needless to say... I wasn't exactly interested in a second date lmao. But yeah... I can't help but be just a taaaaad judgmental of my own generation when I see, for example (and I HAVE seen PLENTY of these) grown men in their 30s and up who genuinely, sincerely, with a completely straight face, say that they think He-Man and the Masters of the Universe and Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers are some of the best television shows EVER made, despite easily being old enough to have kids of their own of the age that those shows were ACTUALLY targeted towards. It just does NOT seem healthy or normal at ALL for people that age to not be able to (or more often than not, not WANT to) intellectually engage with media written for fully grown, functioning adults. That's something I've never, EVER experienced from my myriad interactions with the older generations.

Like, I GET the whole "desire for escapism to a 'simpler time' because 'adulting' is just so hard and scaaawy" (but ONLY to a certain point) because, yeah... EVERYTHING absolutely has been stacked against millennials going into adulthood when we did with all this horrible, debilitating wealth inequality. I don't agree with it, but I do understand it. What I don't understand at all is why that somehow causes so many grown adults in their 20s and 30s to absolutely refuse to check out things like The Grapes of Wrath, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, All the President's Men, No Country for Old Men, or The Age of Innocence (and god forbid they ever read a single page of the amazing books that they were adapted from). And I've met MANY millennials like that both online AND in real life. The woman I mentioned above was only one recent, notable example. I know you, Kunzait, have brought this whole childhood nostalgia-obsessed millennial mindset up MANY times over the years, and that's because, like you said, it HAS been a very widespread issue across an entire generation of Americans for quite some time now. And if that's seemingly starting to change, GOOD.

On the flipside, though... yeeeeaahh, the less of Gen X'ers and Boomers calling millennials "lazy" because we can't find good jobs that pay us enough to move out on our own, simply because they don't understand that it was in part their spending habits, but much more so the vast multitude of horrible conservative and neo-centrist corporate goon politicians they voted for in the 70s and 80s (and continue to vote for to this day) that made that the case... THAT'S the kind of "boomers and GenXers mocking millennials" I could do with (a LOT) less of. Oh yeah, let's just ignore allll those studies that say that millennials are actually the hardest working generation (because they kinda HAVE to be) :lol: :roll:
I was kind of going to just bite my tongue about this post, and not say anything, but honestly, the more I've sat on it, the more I've decided to just say what I want to say. While I am ever the proponent of introducing people to #TheArts and getting them interested in new types of books, film and television, I have got to say that this attitude honestly just comes across as pretty obnoxious. Speaking as a woman that dates men, I'm glad that you knew well enough to bite your tongue on the date, but reading that this was your attitude about it is still really...not good. Please reconsider how you mentally approach these things in the future (and how you talk about the women you date on the internet).

I mean, and I swear that I'm not trying to beat up on you here in the quote retweets, but can you imagine how awkward it is for all the women who regularly post here to read this? Like, yeah, I'm #AssumingYourGender and assuming that you're just a cishet guy, but damn, you need to maybe think about how awkward it is for a guy (?) like you to say this, especially in a fandom space.
Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 8:54 pm At the end of the day, I don't give a rat's butthole about upcoming films like Deadpool 3 or Transformers One or what have you... right now, I'm most excited for things like Viggo Mortensen in The Dead Don't Hurt, Barry Levinson's Alto Knights, Eastwood's Juror No. 2, Coppola's Megalopolis, Cronenberg's The Shrouds, and Kevin Costner's Horizon: An American Saga. And seeing things like Alto Knights (which has Robert Mothafuckin De Niro in a dual role as Vito Genovese and Frank Costello!!) basically getting ZERO press and Coppola, THE MAN WHO DIRECTED THE GODFATHER TRILOGY AND APOCALYPSE NOW, struggling to find a distributor for Megalopolis just makes me weep.
Coppala has had it coming, considering his connection to Victor Salva.

I don't really feel like going on a diatribe about The Godfather, but, like...it's not that good lol. It's so hard for me to take films about men from the 1970s Hollywood seriously, but The Godfather (and its sequels) is almost this comedically and cosmically overblown film that sort of just represents that entire decade of film being so samey. I think the culture of general hero worship of directors like Scorsese and Coppala really needs to be tempered, especially if the plan is to just replace the modern franchise blockbuster with them again.

Okay, okay, I went on a rant, my bad.

Oh gosh, I forgot that Costner was doing another movie about how cool and tough and manly cowboys are. Me and the girlies watched Silverado a few weeks ago for the first time, and it was so surreal seeing Costner play the young hotshot cowboy role now that he's kind of just known for fulfilling the kind of role that Kevin Kline and Scott Glenn fulfilled in that film. My favorite thing about Silverado was how intensely Jeff Fahey played Tyree. I knew Fahey from LOST, but in Silverado he really channels that intensity in a new and...much hotter way lol.

I have to catch up on Fincher's films. I thought Se7en was painfully awful despite some choice sets that are really well designed, and The Game just didn't connect the fuses right, but I really enjoyed Zodiac and Gone Girl (although I have incredibly strained feelings with regards to the main conceit of the plot that I won't get into here).

I want to see I Saw the TV Glow so bad, but I don't think it's playing in my area yet. >_< I saw Love Lies Bleeding a few weeks back and absolutely loved it. Saltburn and Promising Young Woman were also a ton of fun, especially the latter's hard-hitting ending that wrecked me. Monic (2022) was also a superbly directed film that is really good at keeping your attention at all times, which I think that get exhausting after a while, but it manages to do so for a pretty tight and lean 106 minutes.

I finally saw Good Will Hunting a few weeks back, and I was really taken with the acting and writing in that film. It was so surreal realizing that I was not only closer in age to Robin Williams in that film, but also in life experience than I was to Matt Damon at the time of making that. I think that it's a really great film to share with anyone who has ever had to deal with CPTSD and losing loved ones.


Shit, this is a Dragon Ball forum. Ugh, I don't wanna delete all this shit, so I'll just leave it hope I don't get in trouble.

Wait, I know! I think I can tie this back to Dragon Ball! Toriyama Akira and the general mission statement of the franchise since at least 2008 has been a very "maintain the vibes of nostalgia," but I think that we can also tie that back into the general vibes of how projects for the past sixteen years kind of just follow the same theory as the original 1984 comic. Toriyama's desire not to really push the direction of his work reflects a desire to only thumb his nose at the smallest of things. This is to say, the manner in which Gokuu is written increasingly less like a hero or having normal, functioning adult behaviors. This continued on into modern works, with less-and-less oversight from a creator—rather than an executive—to give Toriyama creative pushback. Toriyama's writing in the 1984 comic was at it's sharpest when he was being challenged, of course, but also when he was challenging himself to spin his inspirations from other art into something else.

What I'm saying, basically, is that someone should've made Toriyama watch more good movies until he couldn't help but copy them. :lol:


Ugh, this took forever to write. I've got romance novels I should be writing right now lol
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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Vegetto95 » Tue May 07, 2024 10:40 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 10:24 pm I was kind of going to just bite my tongue about this post, and not say anything, but honestly, the more I've sat on it, the more I've decided to just say what I want to say. While I am ever the proponent of introducing people to #TheArts and getting them interested in new types of books, film and television, I have got to say that this attitude honestly just comes across as pretty obnoxious. Speaking as a woman that dates men, I'm glad that you knew well enough to bite your tongue on the date, but reading that this was your attitude about it is still really...not good. Please reconsider how you mentally approach these things in the future (and how you talk about the women you date on the internet).
I mean, and I swear that I'm not trying to beat up on you here in the quote retweets, but can you imagine how awkward it is for all the women who regularly post here to read this? Like, yeah, I'm #AssumingYourGender and assuming that you're just a cishet guy, but damn, you need to maybe think about how awkward it is for a guy (?) like you to say this, especially in a fandom space.
Yeah, no. You, Kunzait, and Casey are right on the money. I definitely came off a little too snarky and snobbish, and I apologize. I honestly did not mean to demean anyone (and truth be told, even though I wasn't interested either, the woman I mentioned was the one who first told ME she didn't want a second date because she thought we were too different, which is how I felt as well). I sincerely did not mean to come off as disrespectful, I think I just... diiiiid not do a good job separating my frustration at, as Kunzait said, the macro issue from the individual issue.

It's just very frustrating to me, as someone who LOVES great adult character dramas and hates seeing them so often these days be bulldozed over by so many giant, brainless franchise films, that when I see someone who completely rejects the former in full favor of the latter, my mind just goes "Oh... you're part of the problem". And I definitely need to work on that. And yes, especially as a cishet guy :?

I think, also, since I love things that are intellectually engaging, I want to be with someone who will also challenge me intellectually. Buuut, at the same time, that's not an excuse to come off like an elitist snob. I promise I will work on my phrasing and framing because I love you all in this community, and I don't want people to get the wrong idea about me. For anyone I might have offended, again... I apologize.

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Wed May 08, 2024 3:26 am

I think it's fine if lighthearted media is not your cup of tea and to prefer more artsy type fare, as long as you acknowledge there are different types of entertainment and valid reasons for why each has its appeal.

I can't help but think of Martin Scorcese's comments himself on the MCU movies, acknowledging they are well produced but in his eyes not what cinema is meant to be.
Martin Scorcese wrote:

I tried, you know? But that’s not cinema. Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks. It isn’t the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being.
I mean, sure, there are very good reasons for appreciating the types of movies Scorcese sees as cinema, but it would be exhausting if that was all that was on offer. I do take Vegetto95's point though, it's certainly worrying if Francis Ford Coppolla is struggling to find a distributor for Megalopolis.

I'm not sure if the decline in hype, box office success and reception of MCU movies is enough to say people are becoming more open to intellectually engaging content, maybe briefly until the next major trend in Hollywood. The highest grossing movie last year was Barbie after all, which tried hard to be taken seriously although that movie still had its share of cartoony moments. If anything we should probably expect more acceptance of fluff content amongst adults. I sincerely doubt anyone in their wildest dreams ever suspected an adaptation of My Little Pony to become as loved as it has been among grown men.

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 2:00 pm The hyper obsession with the likes of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers and Yugioh seems to only exist on internet circles like tumble and TV Tropes and YouTube comments. Stuff like that rarely goes beyond "that was awesome when I was 7" irl
I think it's a case by case basis depending on the culture of any given individual. If the people around are accepting fans of said content will wear it on their sleeves, if not of course they will find their community online. I have two friends, both massive Power Rangers fans that will talk openly amongst one another about the series, going beyond "I loved that as a kid" and moving on, but they both also love more intellectually stimulating content like Breaking Bad, The Dark Knight, etc. If they were around older generations obviously they wouldn't be trying to defend the former but they would certainly find common ground with the latter.

You bring up a good point about nostalgia for the emo and punk subcultures of the 2000s and to a lesser extent the early 2010s, which I see artists like Olivia Rodrigo bringing back, maybe even as a reactionary thing to the likes of the even poppier Taylor Swift some are tipping her to be the next female musical cultural icon (I've even heard "Livvie" is now a thing as Olivia's equivalent to Taylor's "Swifties"). At one point we were oversaturated with bands like My Chemical Romance, Fallout Boy, Jimmy Eat World, American Idiot-era Green Day etc but now that all that is considered "retro" it can be repackaged as this cool throwback sound.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Dr. Casey » Wed May 08, 2024 5:20 am

Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 10:40 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 10:24 pm I was kind of going to just bite my tongue about this post, and not say anything, but honestly, the more I've sat on it, the more I've decided to just say what I want to say. While I am ever the proponent of introducing people to #TheArts and getting them interested in new types of books, film and television, I have got to say that this attitude honestly just comes across as pretty obnoxious. Speaking as a woman that dates men, I'm glad that you knew well enough to bite your tongue on the date, but reading that this was your attitude about it is still really...not good. Please reconsider how you mentally approach these things in the future (and how you talk about the women you date on the internet).
I mean, and I swear that I'm not trying to beat up on you here in the quote retweets, but can you imagine how awkward it is for all the women who regularly post here to read this? Like, yeah, I'm #AssumingYourGender and assuming that you're just a cishet guy, but damn, you need to maybe think about how awkward it is for a guy (?) like you to say this, especially in a fandom space.
Yeah, no. You, Kunzait, and Casey are right on the money. I definitely came off a little too snarky and snobbish, and I apologize. I honestly did not mean to demean anyone (and truth be told, even though I wasn't interested either, the woman I mentioned was the one who first told ME she didn't want a second date because she thought we were too different, which is how I felt as well). I sincerely did not mean to come off as disrespectful, I think I just... diiiiid not do a good job separating my frustration at, as Kunzait said, the macro issue from the individual issue.

It's just very frustrating to me, as someone who LOVES great adult character dramas and hates seeing them so often these days be bulldozed over by so many giant, brainless franchise films, that when I see someone who completely rejects the former in full favor of the latter, my mind just goes "Oh... you're part of the problem". And I definitely need to work on that. And yes, especially as a cishet guy :?

I think, also, since I love things that are intellectually engaging, I want to be with someone who will also challenge me intellectually. Buuut, at the same time, that's not an excuse to come off like an elitist snob. I promise I will work on my phrasing and framing because I love you all in this community, and I don't want people to get the wrong idea about me. For anyone I might have offended, again... I apologize.
It's okay, I'm sorry too. I understand where you were coming from (and the nature of the conversation probably led you into feeling safe posting something like that, the response from me was kind of out of nowhere). Please don't worry or feel bad about it, it's not a big deal and certainly nothing worth hurting your feelings over. Also great post from Kunzait.

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Re: ME TOONS CONFIRMED! (SPEED RACER IN THE LINE UP)

Post by Kid Buu » Mon May 13, 2024 2:49 pm

Vegetto95 wrote: Tue May 07, 2024 8:54 pm and Coppola, THE MAN WHO DIRECTED THE GODFATHER TRILOGY AND APOCALYPSE NOW, struggling to find a distributor for Megalopolis just makes me weep.
Can you blame them? He hasn't had a big hit since Dracula, 32 years ago.
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

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