Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are variations of Super Saiyan. What does that mean?

[taikufuru]

Between Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F', Akira Toriyama said the following:

"Super Saiyan 2 and 3 are nothing more than powered-up variations of Super Saiyan. After the fight with Beerus, Goku realized that mastering his normal state and Super Saiyan would raise his level more and sap less strength, so I think he probably won’t become Super Saiyan 2 or 3 any more."

This statement reminded me of those nomenclatures that appeared in a magazine around 1993, where they dealt with "transformations" in grades, including Super Saiyan 2.

• Super Saiyan Grade 1: The level Goku reached on Namek.

• Super Saiyan Grade 2: The level that Vegeta presented against Semi-Perfect Cell, calling himself "Super Vegeta".

• Super Saiyan Grade 3: The level that Trunks presented against Perfect Cell, with the loss of speed as his weak point.

• Super Saiyan Grade 4: This is the level dominated by Goku and Gohan, being more powerful than the previous ones, avoiding loss of speed and excessive energy wastage.

• Super Saiyan Grade 5: Today known as "Super Saiyan 2", it was the most powerful stage yet.

Obviously, the names were made before Goku revealed Super Saiyan 3, as well as naming the stages higher than the original Super Saiyan.

Since it was revealed that Super Saiyan Blue (SSGSS) is the Super Saiyan with the powers of Super Saiyan God, some fans have wondered why Goku never tried to "merge" Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan 2 or 3.

The answer, in my opinion, is in line with Toriyama's interview and the 1993 magazine's way of naming the Super Saiyan stages.

It always seemed to me that Goku named Super Saiyan 2 and 3 out of convenience, just as he prefers to just call Blue instead of a more difficult name like SSGSS.

When placing the subsequent levels of the original Super Saiyan as simple variations, it can be concluded that Super Saiyan 3 would be Super Saiyan Grade 6, as well as that Super Saiyan who faced Beerus in the film's climax would be something like Super Saiyan Grade 7, ending a cycle just like Grade 4, which went through "scandalous" variations before returning to basics with full power.

In this way, the SSGSS would be a step beyond grade 7, taking the form to the divine level.

Although the Dragon Ball Super manga changed some details of the events of The Battle of Gods, the part involving the Super Saiyan and its variations (up to the Grade 6) still works in the current context.

What do you think?

[Hugo Boss]

The original idea, as presented in the interview and in RoF, is that Goku and Vegeta would only fight using Base form and Super Saiyan from then on, which became blue because of the level of power they had reached on that point.

Dragon Ball Super basically abandoned that idea, so Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan Blue became powered-up variations of Super Saiyan as well. In the manga, Super Saiyan Blue has even three stages, so it became a bit more complex to grasp its numerical order.

[taikufuru]

Toyotarō was smart to ignore the absorption of the Super Saiyan God's power, just like Goku (in base form) does in the film.

On the other hand, the anime followed Toriyama's original idea very closely, only to abandon it after the Champa arc.

From then on, the TV series would alternate the very conception behind the form. Depending on the episode, Blue can be "calm" with "perfect Ki control" or release a lot of energy – an idea present in Toyotarō's manga.

If Super Saiyan Blue was the Super Saiyan with the powers of Super Saiyan God, he just became a "Super Saiyan God 2".

[Koitsukai]

I think it makes sense. The blond forms are all part of the same pool of power. There are ways to improve them but come with certain physical changes.
The point or goal seems to be to control the entirety of that pool of power without changing physically. Just like you can build muscle and become huge and stronger, but you can also become thinner and even stronger than if you were huge, stripping away the needless mass/hair/energy output. Like a sculpture, you get rid of the extra stuff until to get your perfect design.

About SSBSS3, I don't think it's possible based on that same interview, not only because the god forms have been surpassed with something better. If the SS form is meant to be perfected, and SS2-3 are just like demoes of the actual full range of the SS transformation, and since the god forms are about perfect ki control, then SSB could be already bringing out the full potential of the blond forms, so for SSB it means is SS3, and not SS1, obviously without the mane.


SSBE I guess it's the next step of SSB, not like SS2SSB but an improvement on the god power, not on the blond power.

[SupremeKai25]

I can understand why SS3 is considered a different form, since there are clear visual changes (longer hair and no eyebrows) and it seems to tap into the primal nature of the Saiyans, long before SS4 was even created.

But SS2? I have never seen it as different from SS1. Originally it was just Gohan unleashing his power and breaking his shell. Then, since DBZ was badly-planned, Toriyama gave a similar mode to Vegeta and Goku in the Buu saga and so Gohan was no longer unique, but still I didn't see SS2 as a different form. It's just uber-powered SS1.

This is yet another thing that DBS does better than DBZ. Each and every single form of DBS is clearly unique, distinctive, and well-established. Nothing is ambiguous or unclear when it comes to DBS forms, the boundaries are clear and well-defined.