Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 16 - Official Discussion Thread

[Makaioshin]

And then Goku and Vegeta just stand there during the confrontation.

They stood there because Degesu had a gun to Dende's head. Even teleportation was probably seen as too risky, given the circumstances.

There's a reason Panzy and Glorio took a sneakier approach.

That much is obvious. Panzy is a bit slower than both of them but she was able to use her established sneak ability to catch him off guard.

Degesu then clearly points the gun at Panzy. At this point they also stood there. But we can also say Goku couldn't just teleport and grab the gun, which may hold untold power, as it is unclear how effective guns are at any given moment. It may depend on the model of the gun which they are unfamiliar with.

Glorio at this point threw the iconic hat. This hat may or may not have been faster than his lightning magic, anyone using a ki blast, or Glorio's own gun. Still they stood there. This one is completely fair as the hat was the funniest option and likely they understood this though perhaps not at the time.

Piccolo then went in for the attack. Which is good because he needed something to do. After this they both casually walk towards the aftermath. To again be fair, it was also established that Goku didn't really care about saving Dende and was more interested in seeing the Tamagami. But I also think it is fair to say there are just too many characters for this limited scenario.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I guess she was just a random Demon girl in the end, though I do like this consistent theme of Demons almost all being money-grubbing and greedy in some form or another, even up to the Supreme Demon King himself.

Though I do wonder if the resemblance to the Pride Troopers uniform was intentional or not. It might not be, but I could see it being one of those random reveals that ties things in the main series to the Demon Realm.

And props on Piccolo for immediately going for that throat chop the moment Degesu was distracted. That must've hurt a lot.

[Lord Beerus]

There was good plot progression here, but Daima's biggest flaw of stalling for time still reared its ugly head for a good chunk of the episode. The Gendarmerie Force was a gigantic waste of time. They weren't funny and were boring to watch in combat. I don't know why the franchise is so obsessed with Ginyu Force retreads. Do something different.

I didn't care about Degesu's betrayal of Gomah or his ambitions because he was such an underwritten character and the dynamic between Degesu and Gomah was nowhere near fleshed out enough for this plot beat and character beat to hold any kind of dramatic weight or thematic punch

The final five minutes are really what carry this episode, and I've honestly found that a very sad recurring theme of Daima where the show seems content in jamming most of their significant plot development in the final minutes of the show. But... the final five minutes is genuinely brilliant material. From Gomah trying to pry the Third Eye out of the belt, to Gomah trying to get the Third Eye in his head, to the Hat girl hustling her way out with Gomah's jewels and money and Gomah's transformation. Great stuff. Not enough to save the episode, but great stuff nonetheless.

[FortuneSSJ]

One of the worst directed episodes of the show. The first part in particular was horrible. I couldn't believe they were reusing the animation for Gendarmerie Force poses. Second part was a little better, but the only thing I liked was Gomah scenes. The best character acting stuff so far!

Considering his reaction and the NEP, seems like Glorio is not really working with Arinsu which is a good twist.
Toriyama should have been more creative with Gomah outfit. He looks like a lost Pride Trooper.

[dragonballhero]

This isn't a HUGE point, but does anyone else feel like the demon girl (who got the Third Eye from Hybis) might be Glorio's (ex-)girlfriend?

I don't know why, but the thought came to me when she mentioned an ex-boyfriend.

[Gaffer Tape]

This isn't a HUGE point, but does anyone else feel like the demon girl (who got the Third Eye from Hybis) might be Glorio's (ex-)girlfriend?

I don't know why, but the thought came to me when she mentioned an ex-boyfriend.

I believe Herms brought it up in his social media thread, but he also questioned the possibility given that Glorio never showed any recognition of the hat (that he would have been the one to buy) when Hybis suddenly started wearing it.

[dragonballhero]

This isn't a HUGE point, but does anyone else feel like the demon girl (who got the Third Eye from Hybis) might be Glorio's (ex-)girlfriend?

I don't know why, but the thought came to me when she mentioned an ex-boyfriend.

I believe Herms brought it up in his social media thread, but he also questioned the possibility given that Glorio never showed any recognition of the hat (that he would have been the one to buy) when Hybis suddenly started wearing it.

Hmm... I guess that's a fair point. Everything with Degesu was happening relatively fast, so I didn't consider that.

Speaking of Degesu... he really is Supreme Kai/Kaioshin/Shin/Nahare's little brother, isn't he?

Guess we'll see if Arinsu's preference to work behind the scenes will pay off better in the long run...

[ZeroNeonix]

Generally liked this episode. The gags and the characters are good, but the writing continues to be the weakest link of the show. lol

Wish we could have gotten SOME demonstration of how powerful Gomah was without the third eye. I really don't see how he could put up a fight against Goku or Vegeta, from what we're told. It seems safe to say that Gomah is weaker than Dabura was, and Dabura was on par with Perfect Cell. The Majin symbol on his forehead probably gave him a power boost as well, so he was probably significantly weaker than Perfect Cell without it.

More importantly, we hear that Dabura tried to defeat the Tamagami and collect the Dragon Balls, but he failed. Goku and Vegeta both defeated the Tamagami.

So... Mini Goku/Vegeta > Tamagami > non-Majin Dabura > Gomah. Right? Why is Glorio so insistent they avoid conflict with him, as if they don't stand a chance?

As for the transformed Gomah...eh. I was expecting him to grow giant bat wings or something. Him growing bigger seems kinda...boring. And it kinda goes against the Toriyama trend of the villain's final form being the smallest.

Wondering where they're going with this. It looks like there's going to be a conflict with the new Majins. I hope these guys live. They don't seem to be evil. They're just following orders. Kind of a shame they'll probably never meet Buu.

Also, to get back to power scaling, I'm sure Duu and Kuu are both weaker than Buu, since they're diluted copies of the real thing. One of them failed to defeat a Tamagami, so even if Goku and Vegeta beat them, it would seem reasonable from what we've seen so far.

That fusion bug is still in Goku's satchel. When will that get used? Will we get a new fusion of mini Goku and mini Vegeta? Kakageta, maybe? That seems too predictable, though... If Kuu and Duu fused, that would be interesting. Brains and brawn, brought together. Although, now that I think about it... Majin don't need the fusion bugs. One can just absorb the other. So maybe we'll get a fight between Kuuduu and Kakageta.

Personally, I'd rather Goku fuse with someone other than Vegeta, though. Maybe they're separated, and Goku has to act quickly, so he fuses with Shin or Piccolo.

[Ronin]

I enjoyed this quite a bit overall. I just wish this had happened a few episodes ago instead when you consider all the padding we've had so far. Then we would've had more time to focus on the main conflict. I could nitpick at a few things, but eh, not worth it.

One thing I'm really curious about is who those people were taking Degesu away. Are they security? Gendarmerie? How did they show up? Did someone call them? Why didn't they do anything about Goku and co? There's no explanation; it's just this weird short scene where he gets escorted by nameless people. Did I miss something?

[mecha3000]

I enjoyed this quite a bit overall. I just wish this had happened a few episodes ago instead when you consider all the padding we've had so far. Then we would've had more time to focus on the main conflict. I could nitpick at a few things, but eh, not worth it.

One thing I'm really curious about is who those people were taking Degesu away. Are they security? Gendarmerie? How did they show up? Did someone call them? Why didn't they do anything about Goku and co? There's no explanation; it's just this weird short scene where he gets escorted by nameless people. Did I miss something?

You probably didn't. Just more bad writing. I don't know, maybe the people who took Degesu away were Panzy's father's men??? Anyway, I just realized if Goku and Shin fuse, they'll probably be called Goshin (if the Nahare name isn't used). SSGoshin4 would go crazy for that.

[Ronin]

I enjoyed this quite a bit overall. I just wish this had happened a few episodes ago instead when you consider all the padding we've had so far. Then we would've had more time to focus on the main conflict. I could nitpick at a few things, but eh, not worth it.

One thing I'm really curious about is who those people were taking Degesu away. Are they security? Gendarmerie? How did they show up? Did someone call them? Why didn't they do anything about Goku and co? There's no explanation; it's just this weird short scene where he gets escorted by nameless people. Did I miss something?

You probably didn't. Just more bad writing. I don't know, maybe the people who took Degesu away were Panzy's father's men??? Anyway, I just realized if Goku and Shin fuse, they'll probably be called Goshin (if the Nahare name isn't used). SSGoshin4 would go crazy for that.

I eventually thought of this afterwards as well. Where are they taking him, though? A prison in the Third Demon World or something?

[LoganForkHands73]

What are we doing? Is there any particular reason why, from a writer's standpoint, you would neutralize any kind of threat to the main cast? What is the point of exploring a new world if we're just going to sleepwalk through it?

This summarises how I've started to feel about the show. There's been no energy, no sense of urgency whatsoever. The lethargic pacing was quaint and tolerable at first, but it's become a larger issue as the weeks have progressed. We're finally at a point where the heroes have infiltrated Gomah's fortress, and they're just... trotting around silently and munching crisps. We keep getting these strange fade-to-black transitions between random scenes that cement the snail-like pacing.

Even if they're going for an easygoing interquel adventure vibe, that isn't an excuse not to bother creating new exciting scenarios and real challenges (either emotional or physical) for the heroes to overcome. Otherwise, as you say, what are we doing here?

I disliked the Special Police Force as soon as I laid eyes on them because I knew in my bones that this is all they would amount to. If you're amused by their comedic schtick, I guess it's more bearable, but I never found it funny. I was literally sat here muttering "what was the bloody point?" out loud to myself. It annoys me that Vegeta is the only one who saw the Ginyu Force's full choreographed dance routine and he didn't point out the similarity. That might have got a laugh out of me.

I'm not a complete negative Nancy about it all, but there are things that frustrate me. Moving onto the positives, I found the scenes with King Gomah absolutely hilarious, I really think people sleep on this character in terms of comic relief potential. The demon lady trying so hard to shove the Third Eye into Gomah's head sent me. Only shame with his new transformation, besides making him look even more like a Pride Trooper reject, is that we might be saying goodbye to his beautifully shrill voice...

If they use the remaining time judiciously, they can absolutely salvage the whole thing. The next episode preview indicates that we're finally getting some spiciness back, and I am really looking forward to the showdown with Arinsu and the Majin brothers. While they're at it, hopefully they'll cut the extended intro with Gohan, Tenshinhan and other characters we never see so we get as much actual episode meat as possible. I wanna see them stick the landing so bad, man.

[Zekken]

5/10
Dissapointed me with Degesu, was expecting more from him, what was his plan exactly? Why take Dende so late in the game?
Felt like the whole purpose of the episode was to set the stage for Arinsu and co to face off against Goku and co = the Gomah stuff. But they sacrificed the rest of the episode for it.

Also the Gendermerie special forces..... thats it...... not even going to work as an obstacle for our heroes. What was the point of them? they're funny and charming as expected of Toriyama characters but lets compare them to the Ginyu force for example just purely narratively. They served a purpose for contributing to the story by having Vegeta team up with the heroes as well as leading to good character moments such as Goku saving Gohan or showing the difference between Goku and Vegeta; mercifull and merceiless nature respectively. IN ADDITION TO THEIR CHARM.

You could take out the gendermeie force wholely and lose little.

[Majin Buu]

Loved this episode.

The blue girl that got the Third Eye wasn't Degesu? That would have been clever and would have made sense with what was established about Glinds earlier. But eh, jumped the gun on that one I guess (Though that's bound to happen when you're speculating on an on-going weekly series).

The Special Forces went down without a challenge as predicted though. I was actually kinda sad that this is the end of their role here since they've been so fun- This in spite of my not-entirely-thrilled initial impression of them. Them not being evil assholes but instead reckless idiots that are good guys at heart goes a long way towards making them likable. We first saw the latter with them treating Kuu and Duu in episode 14 and the big one giving Goku those really good chips just 'cause after their defeat here sold it. The Gendarmarie Special Forces, against all odds, have managed to justify their existence by being great characters. I would have liked to have seen some kind of "this again huh?" reaction from Vegeta though since he personally knew the very similar Ginyu Force as part of Freeza's empire. A missed opportunity for some self-aware, lore-based humor.

Things came to a head with Degesu as the NEP indicated. Kaioshin calling him out for being ambitious but lacking thought to his actions, along with Degesu himself stating he wants to become Daimao just for the sake of it basically ("it's natural for Glinds to seek higher positions") does provide context for his inaction all throughout the story: He wants power, but unlike Arinsu, has no plan to actually acquire it. In contrast, he's just been winging it waiting for an opportunity while playing the role of Gomah's beleaguered toady. Kaioshin telling Goku what his position actually entails (and I love that it was prompted by Goku going "oh yeah, what do you do exactly?") is the perfect cap to this exchange because it summarizes the key difference between him and not just Degesu, but Arinsu as well: As Kaioshin, Nahare's job is to maintain peace and order in the universe, and as we've seen here as well as the Buu arc- It's a job he takes very seriously. In contrast, Arinsu and Degesu are the ambitious siblings with self-serving motivations for seeking power: Arinsu (seemingly) as a means to fund her own intellectual pursuits and Degesu for the sake of upward mobility. All interesting stuff to chew on.

Gomah getting the Third Eye but being unable to get it out of Hybis's belt until he went to the bathroom and got the idea to use a plunger was hilarious. The walls are closing in on him and his desperation is palpable, but oddly charming. Correctly predicted he would be the one using the Third Eye in the end, and damn, it hulked him out. As he was transforming I remembered someone pointed out in one of the earlier episode threads that Gomah looked like tiny Rapthorne from Dragon Quest VIII. That form was Rapthorne's initial form and he transforms into a kaiju sized, more monstrous looking form as the final boss. The same dynamic seems to be at play with Gomah: Tiny normal form, big hulking final boss form. I wonder if it's gonna change his personality or not.

The Dragon Team and Team Arinsu have finally met up. Glorio flinched upon seeing Arinsu's Dragon Ball, the question of where his true loyalties lie seems set to be answered. Looks like there's going to be some kind of big clash judging by the NEP. My guess is the Dragon Team and Team Arinsu are gonna end up teaming up to fight the hulked out Gomah, but things could go either way at this point.

[nineko]

I was actually kinda sad that this is the end of their role here since they've been so fun- This in spite of my not-entirely-thrilled initial impression of them. Them not being evil assholes but instead reckless idiots that are good guys at heart goes a long way towards making them likable.

To be honest, I don't dislike them anymore, either. Once our heroes win (because it's obvious that they're going to win), I guess that king Kadan can take Gomah's place, and put the Gendarmerie Force to good use.

[IntangibleFancy]

I enjoyed this quite a bit overall. I just wish this had happened a few episodes ago instead when you consider all the padding we've had so far. Then we would've had more time to focus on the main conflict. I could nitpick at a few things, but eh, not worth it.

One thing I'm really curious about is who those people were taking Degesu away. Are they security? Gendarmerie? How did they show up? Did someone call them? Why didn't they do anything about Goku and co? There's no explanation; it's just this weird short scene where he gets escorted by nameless people. Did I miss something?

You probably didn't. Just more bad writing. I don't know, maybe the people who took Degesu away were Panzy's father's men??? Anyway, I just realized if Goku and Shin fuse, they'll probably be called Goshin (if the Nahare name isn't used). SSGoshin4 would go crazy for that.

Early on I would have been excited for Goku and Shin fusing, I was excited to see what he can do when Daima first got announced, but watching him cower behind that rock in the episode before this one zapped all my excitement for him away. Unless he’s been hiding some magical techniques this entire series (besides that one time he did something against those soldiers so many episodes ago), I don’t think I want to see him fuse with Goku.

Important question: How in the world are they going to handle Arinsu AND Glorio’s betrayal in the coming episodes? We (hopefully) find out Arinsu’s motive next episode, right? And then after they’re done fighting Kuu and Duu and they team up to fight Gomah does she just give up on the Dragon Balls?

Same for Glorio, he seems to be fighting with the heroes in 17, how are they going to squeeze his betrayal, whatever backstory they give him to explain why he’s working for Arinsu, him having seconds thoughts and rejoining the crew, and then whatever he does to make up for betraying the gang in 4 episodes?

[Koitsukai]

Overall, I enjoyed it quite a lot.
Gomah is fantastic, I liked that they let Hybys sit this one out in terms of comedy. Gomah has been cracking me up althroughout Daima, but I feel he was somewhat wasted seeing that only now they let him shine. There were some funny gags here and there in previous episodes, sure, but he showed on this one that he deserved a little more screentime. Maybe less fodder being fodderized episodes and more Gomah's nerves eating him up?
I'm also glad nobody used the Evil before him. He does look a lot like Jiren, and also like that little shit Goku and Hit fought when fighting Dyspo.

I see that I'm not alone in the "VEGETA SHOULD'VE BROUGHT UP THE GINYU FORCE" front. I mean, we all did, and with so many nods to GT, why not one to the original manga? Vegeta hated those guys, he should have a strong opinion about creeps cosplaying supersentai.
I still fail to see the relevance of these dudes, didn't make me laugh that much and they didn't have to be such jobbers. They could've been decent obstacles, maybe for Glorio, Shin and Piccolo, so others aside of the saiyans can do some fighting.
I loved Goku asking for chips and the officer giving some to him.

I don't like that they chose not to make Degesu the lady that got the Eye. They are demons, it'd be fitting they could shiftshape to get what they want.
But my main problem is Degesu. What was his angle? he wants to be Daimao, ok... then why did he send somebody to fetch the one thing that would give him the upper hand, just to ran away with a baby when that very thing was being doordashed to him?
I know he panicked, but there was still plenty of time to wait for the Eye (it didn't even take that long for the girl to get it). Was he planning on asking for ransom? and even then, why take the baby? why not make a deal with the invaders... they don't care if he becomes King, they just want the baby.
The key to what he wanted was within arm's reach and he decided to ran away from it.

Also his connection to Shin, I don't have a problem with what was shown, it's not bad, but it's as generic as it gets. Oh brother, you are so high and mighty and think you are too good for the Daimakai... Again, it's cool and all the whole "you became famous and now think you are better than us", Shin's answer to Goku was kinda heartwarming, too, but it was the perfect chance to expand on Nahare and Degesu as characters. To see what relationship they had, why one is a god and the other one is not, and also to see how one becomes a god.
Maybe they both competed for the Kaioshin job and Degesu lost, maybe Degesu thinks Nahare cheated and isn't fit for the role, maybe Degesu was too Zamasu-like for the part, or that he was a kaioshinphobic all along.
I don't know, instead of 20' of pew-pew last week and 5' of Gendarmerie pew-pew now, some background on these guys would've been more fun to me. Glinds are still a mystery, and Degesu more so.
I still enjoyed their interaction, but it could've been so much richer... with all the padding and stalling we've been having lately, them having such a brief reunion comes off to me as not great.

Anyway, good episode, hopefully the final 4 will be keep on improving. The only really bad episode was the last one.

[TechExpert2021]

On the contraire, Daima feels exactly like a Saturday morning cartoon anime aimed at very little kids. These animes all have similar structure, the beginning and the ending are always plot plot plot, and all the 20-40 in-between episodes are all random pointless adventures off the week.

Sorry for the dumb question, but is there such a thing as a Japanese Saturday morning cartoon (Saturday morning anime in Japan)? Saturday morning cartoons were an American TV thing.

If Daima were a Saturday morning cartoon, it would be Americanized and heavily censored to be FCC-compliant (kinda like the 1996-1998 Saban dub of DBZ).

I've now reached 300 posts!

[IntangibleFancy]

Yeah I don’t really get either. Daima doesnt really feel like something younger audiences would enjoy. If we’re talking teenagers/preteens, I’d imagine that they would prefer action like JJK or demon slayer on top of adventure. And Daima isn’t really doing very well in the adventure department either.

I also think the way they’re handling the dub plays a part in why I can’t see it being for kids (at least the kids here in the US). It takes an extra 2 hours for Crunchyroll to have it, longer for the dub to come out, and the dub is only like 4 episodes in despite being 2-3 months behind.

On the contraire, Daima feels exactly like a Saturday morning cartoon anime aimed at very little kids. These animes all have similar structure, the beginning and the ending are always plot plot plot, and all the 20-40 in-between episodes are all random pointless adventures off the week.

Off the top of my head, I can think of Corrector Yui and the Sherlock Holmes anime adaptation where everyone is a furry.

Oh you mean like Bakugan, Pokemon, Beyblade(?)? It’s been a while, but I guess Daima sorta does remind me of that. But would very young kids like that from Dragon Ball or would they expect more of what they’ve seen from Super and Z?

I was trying to avoid using this as an example but I introduced my sister to Daima who’s about the same age as me when Bakugan and Pokemon, and all those other anime/demi-anime between Nickelodeon and Cartoon Network started airing. She didn’t really like it much but she was able to pay attention when I switched to the English dub, which is part of the reason why I don’t understand how it took them so long to release it and why they’re sandbagging so hard with it.

I’m positive Daima has a huge little-kid following in Japan but outside of there it seems like most of its fans are old fans of Dragon Ball.

[Mister_Popo]

I thought Daima started off strong in terms of story, got a bit inconsistent in the middle, but is picking up again towards the end. This episode was actually really good and makes me excited to see how it all wraps up, despite how predictable it all is.

Of course, it makes no sense that Gomah’s elite corps is weaker than the infantry we saw last week—but that’s exactly what makes them funny. It was obvious they’d be weak since they were meant as parody characters. Their delusions of grandeur remind me of Mr. Satan, and the only way they were ever going to lose was by completely screwing up. It’s totally in line with how they were written.

I do feel like more could have been done with the past and the rivalry between Degesu and Shin. Degesu was such a wasted character—his only real purpose was trembling in fear before Gomah. It’s weird that they had him express ambitions of ruling, only to do absolutely nothing with it. The writers could’ve made Degesu a Maikaioshin as the final villain and used that fight to showcase flashbacks highlighting his old rivalry with Shin. That could’ve given him more weight as a final boss than Gomah. Then again, Daima doesn’t have a super serious tone, so maybe they’re saving that for a future saga?

It was written in the stars that Gomah would get the third eye and become the final villain. But him locking himself in the bathroom and deciding to pry it open with a plunger—or a soup ladle? That was just comedy gold. That whole bit felt straight out of Toriyama’s playbook.

Let’s be honest. There’s not enough unanimity within the fandom—like there was with Battle of Gods or Broly—to call this series “critically acclaimed.” Daima thrives mainly on its gags, consistently solid animation, and lore. Personally, what I miss in Daima are the unexpected plot twists that Toriyama infused into the original manga. Too many episodes stand alone and don’t always transition smoothly into the next. The whole series feels like it was mapped out from the start, almost like a checklist: Demon Realm 3, 2, 1. Defeat Tamagami, free Dende, then take down Gomah. It’s structured like a video game—only even more predictable.

But if the series delivers an epic finale, it might just tip the scales in its favor. Anyway—we’re probably in for a gorgeously animated final battle.