"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TKA]

1. “He’s stronger than time” is a nonsensical tagline that someone came up with, and then they worked backwards to make that a plot beat. Hit’s time stop didn’t even work like that when he fought Goku. They made his technique work like it did in the manga to facilitate that moment. This was naturally to build up Jiren, but they did it in the most predictable, hackneyed way imaginable. Jiren number big; Jiren bigger threat.

The manga’s rendition of Hit vs Jiren is far more interesting, and is more in-keeping with the idea that Jiren wasn’t actually that much stronger than everyone else; he was just way better at controlling his power.

2. Yes, I know what the anime was going for. If an adult could not see the theme, then there’s probably some unfortunate developmental issues at play; it’s really obvious, is what I’m saying. I’m also saying it’s *thoroughly* uninteresting. The anime writers do not know how to make a character an antagonist without making them a villain because it requires more delicate characterization.

The thing I put in quotes is referencing a line from Vegeta in the manga, where he mocks Jiren for being a baby who just wants to be told he’s a good boy by his master. Again, a much more nuanced take on Jiren as a character.

[JulieYBM]

Anime Jiren's view on life is fucked up from life experiences and when that certainty is threatened by Son Goku and others he reacts harshly because if he does not prove them wrong he will be forced to face that his reality is a fake construct that he foolishly rallied around in the wake of his loved one's deaths.

I mean, it's conservative non-sense 101 without the tragic deaths to spur it on lol

Anime Jiren's a pathetic loaer and it's part of what makes him so sexy. The more the others shove his face in the shit, the more Hanawa Eiji adjusts his performance to play Jiren as this pathetic manchild with emotionally childish outbursts. You can really feel it in his line deliveries in Episodes #130-131: he's not playing an angry adult, he's playing an child going through a fight-or-flight moment because the way that his reality is being challenge is triggering the subconscious effects of his trauma.

It's a really neat layer to Hanawa Eiji's performance and I'm really interested to see what direction he was given by Series Director Nakamura Ryouta.

[TKA]

Being so delusional because you bury your insecurities and doubts that you’re the bad guy is a trait we’ve seen many times. Cell, for example. Or, in Super, Zamasu.

I get the appeal, but it’s just such the standard characterization you see in everything that I find it boring for the final antagonist in Super to just be that again.

I just personally much prefer Jiren as a guy who is so confused that he’s participating in the tournament of power, while also actively trying to not win (but also trying to win) because he doesn’t want the guilt of having to sacrifice other universes. He is deeply conflicted, and it’s what ultimately makes him lose AND is a great contrast for Ultra Instinct. The climax of the arc isn’t “teamwork!”; it’s teamwork and the contrast of Jiren being an uncertain emotional wreck getting overwhelmed by people who are sure about their reason for fighting.

[PhantomSaiyan]

Being so delusional because you bury your insecurities and doubts that you’re the bad guy is a trait we’ve seen many times. Cell, for example.

Cell was never insecure lol that's not what his character was at all, he also had 0 doubts that he was the bad guy, how is he an example of what you're talking about?

[angeldreamZ004]

I thought there would be no Toyotaro Drew It this month, but the guy never miss one, so this time he drew the tranformed leader of the poor weird aliens that Beerus obliterates in the Super Anime 1.0 episode 2.

Spoiler:

Moginan
This cool-looking race has four arms and four eyes, and they can even transform!
They were all wiped out along with their planet early on in the Dragon Ball Super anime,
but these denizens of Universe 7 will always live on in my heart!
— Toyotarou

Looks amazing to me as always, but this one made me wonder about something. So far in this project, Toyotaro was mostly drawing the characters of the original manga and the DB & Z anime & movies exclusive characters only for a long time, with some exceptions such as a few video game characters, the arts made to promote Sand Land and Daima, and the entire year of 2024 which was reserved to making drawings of the other Toriayma manga characters due to his passing. He made very few art dedicated to Super in this project and was years ago, and only one dedicated to GT, though he also drew another art with GT character later, but alongside DB, Z and Super characters.
The last one truly dedicated to Super was April 2025 (excluding one made for Legends the next month).

Given how this is a character from the beginning of Super, I believe he will be drawing Super characters from now on, after all, we're getting closer and closer to the Super Anime 2.0, so the next Toyotaro Drew It drawings will be to promote the new anime.

Let's see, next months will prove me wrong.

[TKA]

Cell was never insecure lol that's not what his character was at all, he also had 0 doubts that he was the bad guy, how is he an example of what you're talking about?

The second Gohan was shown to be more powerful than him, he started rationalizing and coping.

[PhantomSaiyan]

The second Gohan was shown to be more powerful than him, he started rationalizing and coping.

Not because he was insecure, it's because he was fucked and about to die lol it's not really insecurity, it's panic and fear

He also still has 0 doubts about being the bad guy, in fact he loves being the bad guy, so I dont think he's a relevant example at all

[SupremeKai25]

New alternate cover for Volume 19

Spoiler:

Credits to @DbsHype on twitter

We also get a glimpse of Queen Vegeta for the first time in official material (unfortunately her face is hidden by the king's cloak), I like the look of her gown and she seems to have a jeweled crown.

Spoiler:

Maybe in 2066 they'll finally reveal her whole design.

[Chuquita]

This long after Toriyama's death I'd question if the design is his or Toyotaro's.

I would like if she's got the name Vegeta tried to give Bra in Super (Eschallot? Echallot? Some pun on shallot.) though.

[Grimlock]

What a nice and beautiful birthday gift Toyotaro gave me! Cool that he brought back that crest, always loved it for some reason. And hey, Vegeta with no bangs this time. Hopefully we actually get to see the queen in all her splendor very soon.

[angeldreamZ004]

He had such an smart idea for this one. I believe this is the first time we see Tarble in the main media (anime / manga) after 28 million years, even if it's just him as a baby, Toyo went far there as well or course "Queen Vegeta", though only 40% but it's something already.

This long after Toriyama's death I'd question if the design is his or Toyotaro's.

I would like if she's got the name Vegeta tried to give Bra in Super (Eschallot? Echallot? Some pun on shallot.) though.

I'm pretty sure that if Toriyama was involved they would've said it, nothing was said in both the WDBN video and the official site.

What a nice and beautiful birthday gift Toyotaro gave me!

Happy Birthday

[The Dark Knight]

New alternate cover for Volume 19

Spoiler:

I really love this cover; Toyotaro's art never misses.

We also get a glimpse of Queen Vegeta for the first time in official material (unfortunately her face is hidden by the king's cloak), I like the look of her gown and she seems to have a jeweled crown.

Spoiler:

Everyone is (understandably) talking about Queen Vegetia, but I think Tarble being here is equally significant, because this will be the first time in nearly 20 years that he's been used outside of video games. I have always believed that Cabba's role in Super was intended for Tarble (they both look and act identical), but due to the 2008 special being commissioned by Shueisha, Toei was never allowed to use him. Could this be a sign of things changing behind the scenes ? Vegeta and his young brother having that student-teacher relationship makes far more sense than Cabba, someone Vegeta doesn't know.

[Grimlock]

King Vegeta ended up trending for a while. Never expected this to ever happen. If only we could spend more time with the Saiyans of the past.

Happy Birthday

Thank you!

[JulieYBM]

Toriyama created Tarble, so he should be fully available for him to use. Heck, Toriyama owns all of the characters, even the ones that he didn't create. Cabba was likely created to "kind of like Tarble, but fulfilling a different role" so that Vegeta can be a mentor to a younger character who is tied to another universe that has Saiyans.

[Lance Freeman]

Queen Vegeta's crown definitely looks like the Dragon Quest crown to me, so maybe she's a recycled Dragon Quest character design. Either that or she was designed for the extended DB- flashback in Super Broly and never got used.