Thoughts on FUNimation's treatment of Dragon Ball

B · Post by B » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:23 am

Personally, I never found FUNimation's alterations to the Dragon Ball series annoying or frustrating. When I first learned of what changed, I found it more concernable as to WHY those things were done in the first place than anything else. However, due to FUNimation's involvement with various anime in the last few years, it raises the question: Why did Dragon Ball get such Americanization and dub changes, when virtually all their other series are left very much like the originals?

I'll start with the biggest: Dragon Ball Z. I understand that when DBZ first came around to the states, Pioneer and Saban were to blame for the early cuts that FUNimation had to stick with for the rest of the series so dub watchers wouldn't be confused(A similar situation happened with their acquisition of One Piece from 4Kids). But the things that weren't Saban's doing: hiring Bruce Falconer and Mark Menza to make completely new BGM, OPs, and EDs. It's quite strange, seeing as how this the only series they've done this with, to my knowledge. Dragon Ball GT would also follow suit soon enough with the rap opening, Menza's score, and the marketing scheme that was the "Lost Episodes."

Since DBZ is one of my favorite anime series, I'll use two other favorites that also happened to be dubbed by FUNimation for comparison of dubbing treatment. The first one is Desert Punk. Here are the first and second OPs. As you can see, FUNi put forth the effort to translate the original Japanese songs into English. The effort is appreciated by myself, most definately. But why DP, and not DBZ? Costs, since FUNi wasn't as big as it is now back when DBZ began? Sheer desire not to use it? Marketing to a certain demographic? It's puzzling.

The second anime I'll use is SoltyRei. Here's the first and only OP. Wow, FUNi didn't even bother putting the Japanese kanji into English, let alone translate the song. Yet they come up with their own instrumental for DBZ. Another attempt to milk the show's popularity to appeal to American children with rock music? It just makes me think "Wow, did they think SoltyRei was going to bomb or something? It's not like them to NOT translate openings."

Probably the most confusing thing in all of this: Dragon Ball Z and Dragon Ball GT got their own personal scores, but the original series, Dragon Ball, was left completely alone! The original orchestra music is left in, as are the eyecatches(Oolong throwing Dragon Balls while Goku twirls an umbrella, or the other way around). They even bothered to translate the OP for it!

In the end, one might say it doesn't really matter, as the new releases allow you to watch the dub with the original music, and DBGT is now being re-released completely unedited. Still makes you wonder if we'll evert get an English version of the DBZ OPs and EDs. With DBZ being FUNi's presumed cash cow, I suppose it's not surprising they're going to intervene with it in a way they think will make them more money.

Here's hoping they'll do the Goku and his Friends Return OVA some overdue justice if they decide to dub it.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:42 am

I think that the treatment of Dragonball by FUNimation is a major contributor to why I got so heavily into the manga version. I, like many others, got into Dragonball Z through the heavily-edited first two seasons as put out by FUNi and Saban. Then DBZ Uncensored went about spoiling my fun and showing me what I was missing out on because the FCC and Saban think they know better than my parents about what is appropriate for me to watch on television.

Then, when FUNi went solo and brought out Season 3, they took away the cast that I had grown to love in the series and the first three movies (which I found to be dramatically superior to the series, but I wasn't sure why at the time because I'm dense). So, while I watched it because that was the only way I could find out what happened next, I felt like I had to suffer through it at the time.

After Season 3, I discovered Viz's Dragonball Z manga that they put out in a monthly format similar to an American comic... only you read it from right to left. I fell in love with those immediately because the pacing was much quicker, the censorship was non-existent, and I could imagine whatever voices or music I wanted to. I had always been a fan of comics in general so it was very easy for me to become attached to these.

Years later, I end up collecting the mildly-censored tankoubon translation of the series and, while there are some parts that irk me, they're an inexpensive way for me to enjoy one of my favorite stories ever and it's much less butchered than the alternative (at the time): the dub or spending $20 to $25 for 3 episodes of a 291-episode series what only had 276 episodes worth of footage and only 223 of them have the option of being watched in Japanese.

Nowadays, I don't really care about the anime enough to import the overpriced DragonBox version or settle for the Orange Bricks. I think FUNi has treated Dragonball like crap compared to their other shows when they've had a lot of opportunities to redeem themselves, but I just don't care, anymore. I have VIZ and I have access to the Japanese tankoubon. I'm happy enough.

So, thanks, VIZ, for bringing the manga over and thanks, FUNi, for driving me to find the comics so I wouldn't have to put up with your crap.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:44 am

Wow, what a doozy of a topic to create on this board.

I personally am frustrated by the things FUNi does with the series. It's not usually big things, either. It's just all these little things that they could do right, but they don't. THAT's what irks me.

Luckily, with the season sets coming out nowadays, they're doing more right than they used to.

However, with all the things FUNi has done to the Dragonball series, I still have the upmost thanks and respect for them because they introduced me to the series. If it weren't for them, then I, along with a whole lot of the other members here, wouldn't be here today.

Besides, if FUNi hadn't acquired the series, who's to say that 4Kids wouldn't have gotten it...

....

*shudder*

Super Sayian Prime · Post by **Super Sayian Prime** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:01 am

I believe initially FUNimation did what they had to do to make the show a success in the United States. The problem is it seems that they are still following the same thought even after the franchise has been proven to be a winner.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:01 am

Big Momma wrote:However, with all the things FUNi has done to the Dragonball series, I still have the upmost thanks and respect for them because they introduced me to the series. If it weren't for them, then I, along with a whole lot of the other members here, wouldn't be here today.

Besides, if FUNi hadn't acquired the series, who's to say that 4Kids wouldn't have gotten it...

The horror...the horror...

Anyway...I agree. It's the little, needless changes that confuse me. But in addition to that, somehow when I watch the dub the pacing feels totally different than the original. In the original it feels like each episode has a purpose or theme, something specific happens and you know it. In the dub it just feels like a bunch of disjointed stuff that happens. I feel like the music plays a big part in this somehow.

In addition to that, I too first saw Dragon Ball Z dubbed (though I'd been an anime fan for a long time before that) and my very first impression was completely different to how the show turned out to be. But now that I look back at it, my first impression was actually closer to the original. To me that shows how different and unfitting FUNimations original release was compared to how the show was meant to be.

Unlike some people I'm quite happy with the season sets though. They're cheap where I live, they're uncut (I think) and the translation's good. The most negative thing about them is the widescreen, but it honestly doesn't bother me while I'm watching it.

Big Momma · Post by **Big Momma** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:05 am

Super Saiyan Prime wrote:I believe initially FUNimation did what they had to do to make the show a success in the United States. The problem is it seems that they are still following the same thought even after the franchise has been proven to be a winner.

However, it became a winner even with the changes that they made.

Which is why it's how it is still do this day.(At least thats what I think)

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:23 am

I've always been indifferent to Funi's treatment. As long as I get my DBZ, I'm fine with whatever they do.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:26 am

I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I think that's really what everyone else should do and not be so offended by crap that, at the end of the day, isn't affecting them. Whatever the hell FUNimation or ANY company does to ANY anime isn't literally destroying the original version of the show to where you can't see it the way you want to, they're just "things that exist" that you can easily ignore.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:29 am

Kirbopher wrote:I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I think that's really what everyone else should do and not be so offended by crap that, at the end of the day, isn't affecting them. Whatever the hell FUNimation or ANY company does to ANY anime isn't literally destroying the original version of the show to where you can't see it the way you want to, they're just "things that exist" that you can easily ignore.

We should copy & paste this into every thread.

B · Post by B » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:46 am

Kirbopher wrote:I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I think that's really what everyone else should do and not be so offended by crap that, at the end of the day, isn't affecting them. Whatever the hell FUNimation or ANY company does to ANY anime isn't literally destroying the original version of the show to where you can't see it the way you want to, they're just "things that exist" that you can easily ignore.

That's pretty much how I feel about it, just taking notice of of DBZ's dubbing as compared to, well, the dozens of new anime FUNi comes out with it each month.

RyujiOtogi · Post by **RyujiOtogi** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 1:53 am

Kirbopher wrote:I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I think that's really what everyone else should do and not be so offended by crap that, at the end of the day, isn't affecting them. Whatever the hell FUNimation or ANY company does to ANY anime isn't literally destroying the original version of the show to where you can't see it the way you want to, they're just "things that exist" that you can easily ignore.

I disagree. FUNimation is really our only source of Dragon Ball. Well, with a proper English translation(subbed) anyway. That is why the fandom is impacted so much by FUNimations treatment to the franchise. When they only release faulty DVDs of the show, then we have no other alternative then to purchase the Dragon Box DVDs. And while they are nice, they are also expensive and lack subtitles.

I think they did an overall good job with Dragon Ball. (first series) The dub is pretty decent, the release is consistent(which translates to convenient) and the subs are good. I can easily afford the DVDs from Madman. No use in shelling out some $100 for the Region 1's on eBay...

DBZ is a somewhat different story. The releases are confusing, the dub is terrible(imo), and their discontinuing the full screen releases is unforgivable.

Dragon Ball GT was a pretty good release too. The singles have just about everything, and the show was consistently released. Except for the whole "Lost Episodes" thing. But I don't really care about that. It's just a stupid title. They just go right before DBGT volumes 1-15. Nothing complicated about that. I wish they were left the same in the first place, but... meh. No skin off my back. FUNimations treatment to the show really only irritates me in regards to DBZ.

Now, I am slightly more annoyed with VIZ because they refuse to offer an uncensored alternative. It's sad too, because they used to leave the manga uncensored...

B · Post by B » Sat Dec 13, 2008 2:54 am

Viz is a whole 'nother can of worms. Their manga is edited to hell, but their anime is fine, for the most part.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:27 am

Kirbopher wrote:I just watch the show and enjoy it for what it is. I think that's really what everyone else should do and not be so offended by crap that, at the end of the day, isn't affecting them. Whatever the hell FUNimation or ANY company does to ANY anime isn't literally destroying the original version of the show to where you can't see it the way you want to, they're just "things that exist" that you can easily ignore.

Hence why I just avoid that version altogether. I saw it for what it was just like you said... and I didn't enjoy it for what it was. Now, I read the manga for what it is and I enjoy that immensely.

MagicBox · Post by **MagicBox** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 3:46 am

I predict that when thinking of FUNimation, the main thing that will come to people's minds is the way they release the shows, something that's probably their main flaw. Dubbing DBZ first, releasing all of the story arcs in out-of-order scrambles, releasing GT out of order, and everything else. It's no wonder fans are confused.

Of course, as Big Momma already said, with the season sets, most of those problems have been fixed, along with brand new ones created. Judging from the double features and GT's season sets, it seems they've finally got a general idea of what they are and aren't supposed to do, but they still need work.

In all honesty, even with all of the criticism FUNi gets for lack of effort, their problem is really that they try too hard. If they'd just sit back, slap the dub and original versions onto the show and release it in sets, they'd have been fine. But no, they've always got to dish out extra effort and try to reinvent the wheel. There's always gotta be a gimmick. Something that will make the series "better." And then it doesn't. That's their main problem.

Then there's the dubs. Honestly, DBZ's the only one that really suffers here. The general consensus among the fanbase seems to be that Dragon Ball's dub is good, though I'm not sure if that's because it had a very accurate script or simply because the original music was kept. I wouldn't know; I haven't seen the series in years.

Now that GT has the original music, I really do think the dub for that series is good. I've actually been typing up episode comparisons (similar to the old DBZ Uncensored or Dogasu's Backpack) for the series. I've only done about five episodes so far, but I didn't really have anything significant to report in any of them. So based off of actually comparing the episodes, I'd have to say GT's dub is pretty solid.

Mainly, my problems with FUNimation now is that they're still failing to give us a proper release of DBZ and that the movies and episodes for that series are still missing songs and pieces of the original music in the dub. If they'd fix those things, I'd have no problem with how they're treating the shows.

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 4:31 am

None of Funimation's Dragon Ball dubs are satisfactory for me. Though, I must admit that the non-Z dubs only make me want to hurl the television across the room, while the Z dub makes me want to drive giant nails into my eyes and ears.

Still, they got the Simmons subtitles. And that...is enough for me. That and alternate angles, which they have screwed up, make the best release for me.

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:13 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:None of Funimation's Dragon Ball dubs are satisfactory for me. Though, I must admit that the non-Z dubs only make me want to hurl the television across the room, while the Z dub makes me want to drive giant nails into my eyes and ears.

My feelings exactly, I would love to be able to watch DB/Z/GT in English without wanting to kill myself, but that's never going to happen, FUNimation want to present the show in a certain way (a way that isn't in any way faithful to the original) and that's what we're stuck with.

So I guess the thing that frustrates me most about FUNimation's treatment of the series, is that we'll never get a good dub (in the same vain as what they're doing with One Piece).

Tsukento · Post by **Tsukento** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:40 am

I said it once, I'll say it again.

FUNi's representation of Dragon Ball is incredibly weird and more often than not a misrepresentation of what the franchise is actually like. From the terrible attempts at trying to make Z seem like it's hardcore (Rock the Dragon, having rock and metal bands supply music for the movies, Bruce Faulconer music, narrator always trying to sound "ominous", etc.) to slapping fans in the face and trying to tell them they "don't know GT" followed by trying to make GT seem even more "hardcore" than Z.

Dragon Ball actually ended up being presented properly. And this is where the oddity kicks in. Dragon Ball gets treated decently. Z gets whipped around. GT gets kicked down even more but is ended up being presented slightly better later on.

Because of all of this, we have a huge split in different fan groups. As well as when FUNi screws around and changes certain things, which lead the American dub fans to think their version is correct while claiming that fans of the original have no idea what they're talking about.

Because of the way FUNi's presented the Dragon Ball franchise, many non-fans ended up concluding that Dragon Ball is nothing more than a bunch of guys screaming from constipation.

I won't even go into detail regarding the changes and what not made to the dub compared to the original.

TL;DR version of it all: FUNi's version of the franchise is quite different from the original. Take it as you will.

Captain-Sora · Post by **Captain-Sora** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 7:48 am

Although I don't really concentrate on the FUNi dub's dialogue for DBZ, their dialogue in Dragon Ball was excellent compared to the subs.

Even though at the sacrifice of not following the original script at some points, their overall work on their own script for the English dub made it much more entertaining IMO considering it seemed more mature than both the Japanese's version's subs and obviously their old dub scripts for DBZ, it seemed realistic and actually felt like the characters were alive whereas when I'm forced to read subs for the Japanese version, the dialogue from them feels like a robot is speaking.

There's a lack of wit and charm that you can find in comic books and the DB manga's translations, and it keeps having everyone explain the obvious and being so observant about everything, not to mention the back chatting and "pissed off" moments seem so half-assed compared to the script for the English dub.

I mainly give a special mention to their work on the TenShinHan saga, John Burgmeier's lines and the delivery of them were epic win. Overall, my own opinion of the dubs and such go like this:

Dragon Ball(FUNi) > DB/Z/GT(Japanese) > DBZ(FUNi) > DBGT(FUNi)

Captain Awesome · Post by **Captain Awesome** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:07 am

Captain-Sora wrote:
Even though at the sacrifice of not following the original script at some points, their overall work on their own script for the English dub made it much more entertaining IMO considering it seemed more mature than both the Japanese's version's subs and obviously their old dub scripts for DBZ, it seemed realistic and actually felt like the characters were alive whereas when I'm forced to read subs for the Japanese version, the dialogue from them feels like a robot is speaking.

Not to turn this into a dub vs. sub argument, but FUNimation's dub script constantly plays down the violence and character motivations, the Saiya-jins for example are sanitised to the point where they are proud warriors that were mislead and tricked by an evil tyrant, instead of bloodthirsty space pirates who's favorite passtime was genocide, long before Freeza came along.

I think it's one thing if you find the dub to be more entertaining, that's completely subjective, but it is in no way shape or form more "mature", it's actually extremely watered down in that sense.

Captain-Sora · Post by **Captain-Sora** » Sat Dec 13, 2008 8:12 am

Captain Awesome wrote:
Captain-Sora wrote:
Even though at the sacrifice of not following the original script at some points, their overall work on their own script for the English dub made it much more entertaining IMO considering it seemed more mature than both the Japanese's version's subs and obviously their old dub scripts for DBZ, it seemed realistic and actually felt like the characters were alive whereas when I'm forced to read subs for the Japanese version, the dialogue from them feels like a robot is speaking.
Not to turn this into a dub vs. sub argument, but FUNimation's dub script constantly plays down the violence and character motivations, the Saiya-jins for example are sanitised to the point where they are proud warriors that were mislead and tricked by an evil tyrant, instead of bloodthirsty space pirates who's favorite passtime was genocide, long before Freeza came along.

I think it's one thing if you find the dub to be more entertaining, that's completely subjective, but it is in no way shape or form more "mature", it's actually extremely watered down in that sense.

I wasn't talking about Z's script at all, Read the first sentence, throughout the whole post, I was referring to their work on Dragon Ball.

Kanzenshuu

Thoughts on FUNimation's treatment of Dragon Ball

Thoughts on FUNimation's treatment of Dragon Ball

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