John on international response to the live-action movie

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:35 am

I am not talking about the hair, but just Goku's overall appearance.

Also, I guess I am in the cult to, because I see plenty Dragonball in this movie. I don't think it's unrecognizable, that's ridiculous. Unrecognizable would be if you were shown the Pineapple Express trailer and it said Seth Rogen was Goku, James Franco was Krillin and so on, and at the end it said Dragonball.

I honestly think people are trying to hard to hate this movie. I don't hate or love the movie, you know why? because I haven't seen it. And I won't have a full opinion until I do see it. From what we have seen so far we have a mixed bag. Some good stuff, some bad, some weird, some indifferent.

I think some people are just being ridiculously hate filled towards this movie. And taking the changes to heart like it's the end of the world. This movie is a high production fan fiction in all honesty. Some people are going to like it, others not, I don't understand why people are getting so crazy over it.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:39 am

omegacwa wrote:Some people are going to like it, others not, I don't understand why people are getting so crazy over it.

I really have no idea either. People are acting like they own the series.

omegacwa · Post by **omegacwa** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:42 am

I bet if all we had so far was clip of Goku in a fully accurate GI doing a KameHameHa, there would still be people complaining about something.

jda95 · Post by **jda95** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:45 am

omegacwa wrote:I bet if all we had so far was clip of Goku in a fully accurate GI doing a KameHameHa, there would still be people complaining about something.

Saying and performing the Kamehameha wrong.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I know I'll hate this movie.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:50 am

I'm too tired and pre-occupied to partake in round 9000 of this back-and-forth word games bullshit that inevitably happens with every movie thread. So I'll make a couple last statements and be done with it until the next major news.

- The "Popular opinion" is not necessarily the right one. If everyone on the planet believed grass was purple, it wouldn't make the grass any less blue. A stupid opinion shared by a lot of people isn't any less stupid.

- DragonBall is not a holy scripture, and taking creative licenses with it is not some act of heresy, nor is happening to enjoy those creative licenses. Nor does having such creative license make it an inferior product by default.

- "DragonBall: Evolution is a story featuring a Saiyan boy named Goku traveling the world in search of the mystical set of seven artifacts known as the DragonBalls, which when gathered together summon a dragon capable of granting the summoner a wish. Competing for the Dragon Balls is the evil Namekian known as Piccolo, who, imprisoned eons ago, seeks to wish for his youth to be restored so that he can take vengeance upon the race that sealed him away. Along the way, Goku is assisted by characters such as the girl genius Bulma and her DragonBall-seeking radar, the wise old master Roshi, who was Goku's late grandfather's teacher, the reformed bandit Yamcha, and Goku's love interest, Chi-Chi."

Yes, some things have been changed from the precious manga. But everything I've just stated in that summary of the film is absolute confirmed fact, and it is all VERY "DragonBall." One or two characters being omitted or portrayed a bit differently does not negate that. Again, a new take on the original. Not trying to BE the original. New take. Not the same. New take. Not the same. Repeat it along with me.

- Omega made a good point as to the "nothing like DragonBall" silliness. If they showed a trailer that featured people completely unfit-looking for the roles and portrayed it as a crass college comedy and then slapped the title "DragonBall" at the end... THAT would be "nothing like DragonBall." What we DO have is a fantasy adventure with super-powered martial artists searching for artifacts that can summon a wish-granting Dragon, and going up against a powerful, inhuman villain that wants them for more dastardly reasons. A character acting a little differently doesn't negate that. At least, not beyond personal opinion. You can't just label it "nothing like DragonBall" as if it were some undeniable fact.

- In that vein, if this WEREN'T the first major "re-imagining" of the franchise, I don't think anyone would be having as much of a problem with it as they do. Other series have had multiple re-tellings over the years in many different styles and in many other mediums. Evolution just happens to be DragonBall's first foray into that type of deal, and I think that scares people.

Acid_Reign · Post by **Acid_Reign** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:57 am

omegacwa wrote:Also, I guess I am in the cult to, because I see plenty Dragonball in this movie.

You must have a very narrow definition of plenty, because I can only think of 8 things this movie has in common with the original:

They have the same names.
They search for the Dragon Balls.
Roshi trains Goku.
Gohan does not live in a city.
Goku and Chi-chi are involved.
Goku eats a drumstick.
Bulma has some nifty technology.
Piccolo is green.

Should I be impressed by this? Does that list even really compare to how many non-Dragon Ball elements there are in the film?

I don't think it's unrecognizable, that's ridiculous. Unrecognizable would be if you were shown the Pineapple Express trailer and it said Seth Rogen was Goku, James Franco was Krillin and so on, and at the end it said Dragonball.

No, it’s literally only recognizable due the Dragon Balls themselves, and the two and a half costumes they got [sort-of] right.

I honestly think people are trying to hard to hate this movie.

Why would I try hard to hate a movie based on my favorite animé? I want to like it, but every time I find something out about it I either burst out laughing or hang my head in shame.

I don't hate or love the movie

But didn’t you already confess to being in the cult?

I don't understand why people are getting so crazy over it.

Because we care about DB and don’t appreciate the misrepresentation.

MajinVejitaXV · Post by **MajinVejitaXV** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 12:58 am

JAPPO wrote:I really have no idea either. People are acting like they own the series.

Well, we are the fanbase. Having an attachment to something does mean taking ownership to a certain extent.

In any case, I don't buy the "you must like this because it is DragonBall, if not you're a whiner" mentality. I didn't buy it with FUNimation's DVD releases, I didn't buy it with the action figures that came with bazookas and Glocks nor do I buy it here.

Also, just because something is a "new interpretation" doesn't mean it's good or even needed. The mentality of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" springs to mind. Comic adaptations like X-Men and Spider-man changed things, but that greatly comes from the fact that they ran for 30-40 years prior to being adapted with multiple shifts in continuity and creative teams. Even then, while changes were made they didn't completely ignore the status quo. To me, Goku living in a modernized society is like taking away Peter's spider-bite origin or Logan's clandestine experiments with Adamantium. His naivete is a part of his character. It provides a great part of DragonBall's (throughout the manga, anime and films to this point) brand of humor.

I mean, forget high school. Goku's mood, from what we're seen, is completely different. It'd be like doing a Spider-man movie with Peter Parker as an Eminem clone. It just doesn't work.

And honestly, just think about this: a trailer is supposed to get the audience psyched. Not make them go, "Well, let's wait until the final movie comes out." More often than not, a trailer shows the more exciting parts of a film, the "money shot" so to speak. If the trailers (yes, I'm counting the internal preview) have led us to this point, I think it's fair that people are pessimistic at this point about the final product.

-Corey

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:06 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:I'm too tired and pre-occupied to partake in round 9000 of this back-and-forth word games bullshit that inevitably happens with every movie thread. So I'll make a couple last statements and be done with it until the next major news.

- The "Popular opinion" is not necessarily the right one. If everyone on the planet believed grass was purple, it wouldn't make the grass any less blue. A stupid opinion shared by a lot of people isn't any less stupid.

- DragonBall is not a holy scripture, and taking creative licenses with it is not some act of heresy, nor is happening to enjoy those creative licenses. Nor does having such creative license make it an inferior product by default.

- "DragonBall: Evolution is a story featuring a Saiyan boy named Goku traveling the world in search of the mystical set of seven artifacts known as the DragonBalls, which when gathered together summon a dragon capable of granting the summoner a wish. Competing for the Dragon Balls is the evil Namekian known as Piccolo, who, imprisoned eons ago, seeks to wish for his youth to be restored so that he can take vengeance upon the race that sealed him away. Along the way, Goku is assisted by characters such as the girl genius Bulma and her DragonBall-seeking radar, the wise old master Roshi, who was Goku's late grandfather's teacher, the reformed bandit Yamcha, and Goku's love interest, Chi-Chi."

Yes, some things have been changed from the precious manga. But everything I've just stated in that summary of the film is absolute confirmed fact, and it is all VERY "DragonBall." One or two characters being omitted or portrayed a bit differently does not negate that. Again, a new take on the original. Not trying to BE the original. New take. Not the same. New take. Not the same. Repeat it along with me.

- Omega made a good point as to the "nothing like DragonBall" silliness. If they showed a trailer that featured people completely unfit-looking for the roles and portrayed it as a crass college comedy and then slapped the title "DragonBall" at the end... THAT would be "nothing like DragonBall." What we DO have is a fantasy adventure with super-powered martial artists searching for artifacts that can summon a wish-granting Dragon, and going up against a powerful, inhuman villain that wants them for more dastardly reasons. A character acting a little differently doesn't negate that. At least, not beyond personal opinion. You can't just label it "nothing like DragonBall" as if it were some undeniable fact.

- In that vein, if this WEREN'T the first major "re-imagining" of the franchise, I don't think anyone would be having as much of a problem with it as they do. Other series have had multiple re-tellings over the years in many different styles and in many other mediums. Evolution just happens to be DragonBall's first foray into that type of deal, and I think that scares people.

Amen...I agree.

MisterFlashdude · Post by **MisterFlashdude** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:12 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:If they showed a trailer that featured people completely unfit-looking for the roles and portrayed it as a crass college comedy and then slapped the title "DragonBall" at the end... THAT would be "nothing like DragonBall."

Oooh, you're right...! I see it! I so see the Dragonball in this movie!
It's right there. Somewhere... behind Chatwin. Hidden. Out of frame.

If you all close your eyes and imagine really, really hard, I think you can see it too.

Ex-Dubbie369 · Post by **Ex-Dubbie369** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:14 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:- In that vein, if this WEREN'T the first major "re-imagining" of the franchise, I don't think anyone would be having as much of a problem with it as they do. Other series have had multiple re-tellings over the years in many different styles and in many other mediums. Evolution just happens to be DragonBall's first foray into that type of deal, and I think that scares people.

This.

I try to keep out of these threads, since I'm waiting for the film's release to pass final judgement, but what I have seen is decent, short of Chatku, which I'm not particularly fond of.

But I also agree with this statement. American properties tend to have re-imagined versions. Large comparisons in film recently have been The Dark Knight and Transformers. Two franchises which have been adapted multiple times. This lessens the shock of any adaptation and both of these films have been very well recieved.

The big question is if DB is getting such negative flak because it's the first time, and if it had been adapted in another medium before this, would then fare better, or if it is one of those franchises that shouldn't be adapted in general. I believe that for a first time (not counting the Chinese movie), they should have tried harder to stay true to the original story. I'm not talking so much about aesthetics or setting it in a place where it's more familiar to the general audience, but rather talking about how the characters are behaving compared to how they were in the original.

The two biggest offenders of this I believe are Goku and Chi-Chi. Based on observations made in the trailer, Goku is your stereotypical Peter Parker type of character. His lack of confidence and enthusiasm is disheartening when this is supposed to be a character whose confidence and enthusiasm can only be matched by his strength and his appetite. Chi-Chi is not as bad as Goku, and I think part of the reason I dislike Live Action Chi-Chi is because I believe Jamie Chung is a horrible actress in general (looks≠acting skills), but she seems to be just this typical teenager with martial arts training. Also, she seems to be the typical "beautiful girl the hero is in head-over-heels in love with" which of course, we know is the other way around in the original. I'm not against there being some sort of romance between the two (more than what Toriyama gave us) but it seems to much like "typical Hollywood romance" to me.

Oh yeah.... "BAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!"

Zenkai Power · Post by **Zenkai Power** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:29 am

I know a lot of people are hoping this movie is going to be good despite all the evidence so far... but I mean, just look at who they got to star in it and direct it. The odds are certainly against us.

And you don't have to like it just because it carries the name Dragonball. I'd love to be pleasantly surprised buuuut I doubt I will be.

Joey Batz · Post by **Joey Batz** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:50 am

As someone who actually liked the trailer (crazy, right?), I don't see what the big fuss is about this movie? I've said it before and I've said it again. Some people don't like it because, well, they don't think it looks that good. Which is cool. But others don't like it because it isn't Dragon Ball enough. Now I have to go with Kaboom on this one.

While what counts as "crossing the line" is subjective, IN MY OPINION (major key phrase here) I don't see anything that really stands out as being DB-blasphemy (aside from Goku's "cool" line. I didn't like how that was presented. Oh, and the name change. "Evolution"?). a lot of people really do seem to want a line by line retelling of the manga. Even if they adamantly deny this claim, many will nitpick over the SMALLEST of differences from the manga. And I'm not talking about major things like Goku's character, but little things like "er, isn't Grandpa Gohan supposed to be dead already?". One rumor started going around that the yellow car in one scene was supposed to be the Nimbus cloud, and people got pissed because of that. Are you kidding me? I mean, this sounds like people LOOKIING for things to criticize. If we all spend the next few months looking for faults in every single still-frame of the movie, then I guarantee you we won't enjoy it.

I'm actually quite glad to see a number of references to the ORIGINAL Dragon Ball in this movie (such as capsules) as opposed to Dragon Ball Z. Most people have only heard of "DeeBeeZee", so it's nice to see that someone out there is paying attention. I always figured that a live action film would have Vegeta and Super Saiyans all over the place. I know that there are things that are quite different from Toriyama's story, I understand, but they're supposed to be different. We don't need another line by line regurgitation of the manga. We have enough DBZ fighting games for that. And honestly, Ultimate Spider-Man was VERY different from the original story. Despite the multitude of differences, I'd still say it was pretty damn faithful.

I'm not going to say that people really DO want this movie to fail, but I can honestly say that I have gotten that impression ever since the first bits of information on this movie were released. The moment it was revealed that Goku was in high school, fans immediately declared that the movie automatically sucked (not "would suck". Just "sucks" as if it were already out) and that it was completely unfaithful and shared nothing in common with the manga other than the name. People said it was just going to be High School Musical but with Dragon Balls. Now really, does anyone here REALLY, TRULY think that this movie will be High School Musical starring Justin Chatwin? I mean, REALLY think that? Seriously, come on. Anybody ever stop and think that maybe they're introducing the story and characters the way they introduced the Buu Saga? With Gohan in high school (honestly, I think Chatwin would have been more suited for THAT role. He looks just like him too)? We haven't even seen a single high school scene in either trailer!

Oh, on the subject of Krillin's absence from the movie. To me, this movie looks like it's supposed to be a retelling of the Piccolo Saga with a healthy dose of Pilaf Saga to introduce the Dragon Ball quest (Bulma and Yamcha being main characters seems to back this point up, though I'm not saying it proves me right). Let's see, Krillin hadn't been introduced yet in the Pilaf Saga, and he spent about 100% of the Piccolo Saga dead. Yep, I'd say not having Krillin is pretty faithful and accurate. Not that a Krillin would be unfaithful or inaccurate (we like Krillin, right?). Just that people are criticizing this movie for not being faithful, then nitpicking because minor little things aren't right (OMFG!!! BULMA DONT GOT DA BLU HAREZZZZ!!!!111), and then turn around and complain Krillin isn't in the movie when the storyline(s) they are adapting didn't have Krillin in them either! It sounds like people either want to have their cake and eat it too, or just don't know what they want.

Pretty much, my point is:
1) Don't trash the movie because it's not a line-by-line regurgitation of the manga. Just because the capsule bike doesn't pop out with a cartoon "BOOM!!", or Bulma doesn't have blue hair, or Goku's Saiyan heritage is revealed by Piccolo and not Raditz, none of that means the movie is going to suck. Like I said, if you want yet ANOTHER retelling of the story in its exact original form, go play Burst Limit.

On the other hand:
2) Don't go around praising this movie just because it's Dragon Ball. I think the trailer looks good because I thought it looked good, not because the title has the word "Dragon Ball" in it. In the end, a shitty Dragon Ball movie is still a shitty movie.

So pretty much:
3) Just keep an open mind. If you want this movie to suck, it will suck. Just enjoy it. Or not. If it's good, it's good. If not, it's not. But don't tell us that this movie "will be awesome" or "will fail utterly", because you don't know. And you won't know anytime before the rest of us will. See it first before you tell me that this movie is great/crap.

4) Jaimie Chung (Chi-Chi) and Shavon Kirksey (Emi, one of Chi-Chi's friends) are hot. C'mon. C'mooooon......

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:29 am

I'm gonna jump in on this. Anybody mind?

MajinVejitaXV wrote: In any case, I don't buy the "you must like this because it is DragonBall, if not you're a whiner" mentality. I didn't buy it with FUNimation's DVD releases, I didn't buy it with the action figures that came with bazookas and Glocks nor do I buy it here.

I don't buy that it's a piece of crap. Yet.. Mostly because I see one nifty thing that I like for every thing I hate, but also because if it sucks I don't really care.

MajinVejitaXV wrote: I mean, forget high school. Goku's mood, from what we're seen, is completely different. It'd be like doing a Spider-man movie with Peter Parker as an Eminem clone. It just doesn't work.

The live action Spider-Man movies DON'T work with me SPECIFICALLY because, no matter HOW much they LOOK right...Spider-Man doesn't ACT right. He's not a motor-mouth or a smartass. There isn't a wisecrack to be seen. And because of this lack of differentiation between Peter Parker and his character as Spider-Man, these live action films don't sit with me. At all.

And honestly, just think about this: a trailer is supposed to get the audience psyched. Not make them go, "Well, let's wait until the final movie comes out." More often than not, a trailer shows the more exciting parts of a film, the "money shot" so to speak. If the trailers (yes, I'm counting the internal preview) have led us to this point, I think it's fair that people are pessimistic at this point about the final product.

And marketing can also be stupid. And what a marketing team for a Hollywood movie considers "money shots" may not be what fans consider money shots. Still, the trailer gave us:

-Capsules(and brought us down with "cool", but the capsules themsevles were nicely re-envisioned)
-Ki Blasts
-A green, spinning attack(Mafuba? Looks like it to me)
-A bulking-up of Goku as he charges the Kamehameha, which is in-tune with large gains of pure power in Dragon Ball.
-A green Piccolo
-That blows up an entire city.
-An impressive martial arts training clip with Gohan
-I liked the thing we all expect to be Kame House. Everyone else may not. Everyone else may wish we had CG dinosaurs and CG-colored orange and green mountains. But the whole "futuristic city"? Not exactly un-Dragon Ball either.

Yes, we have things that we may not like. And Goku's personality may be the very worst thing in this movie(if we aren't missing something or we are being shown a Goku that is burdened by the death of Gohan, but now I'm making unfounded excuses for it). But I think there may just be enough things that are similar to make it an enjoyable film, if not a paint-by-numbers adaptation.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:48 am

I'd feel better if I heard an exchange like:

Chatku: (standing back as Marsiccolo powers up) (in awe) He's so strong...isn't it exciting?! (grins widely)
Chung-Chi: (gawks over at him) What are you talking about he could kill us all!?
Chatku: (not listening) (already doing exercise warm-ups) I can't wait to fight him!!

Yeah...that'd give me some hope...

Super Ghost Kamikaze · Post by **Super Ghost Kamikaze** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:53 am

Chuquita wrote:I'd feel better if I heard an exchange like:

Chatku: (standing back as Marsiccolo powers up) (in awe) He's so strong...isn't it exciting?! (grins widely)
Chung-Chi: (gawks over at him) What are you talking about he could kill us all!?
Chatku: (not listening) (already doing exercise warm-ups) I can't wait to fight him!!

Yeah...that'd give me some hope...

...I wouldn't particularly like that at all. Especially since Goku was pretty pissed at Daimao throughout the whole arc. You know. For the death of Kuririn and Kinto'un?

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:00 am

Super Ghost Kamikaze wrote:
Chuquita wrote:I'd feel better if I heard an exchange like:

Chatku: (standing back as Marsiccolo powers up) (in awe) He's so strong...isn't it exciting?! (grins widely)
Chung-Chi: (gawks over at him) What are you talking about he could kill us all!?
Chatku: (not listening) (already doing exercise warm-ups) I can't wait to fight him!!

Yeah...that'd give me some hope...
...I wouldn't particularly like that at all. Especially since Goku was pretty pissed at Daimao throughout the whole arc. You know. For the death of Kuririn and Kinto'un?

Kuririn and Kinto'un aren't in the live action movie.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:06 am

Chuquita wrote:Kuririn and Kinto'un aren't in the live action movie.

Good thing we've got Gohan and Roshi dying instead, providing the same motivation.

Chuquita · Post by **Chuquita** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:20 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Chuquita wrote:Kuririn and Kinto'un aren't in the live action movie.
Good thing we've got Gohan and Roshi dying instead, providing the same motivation.

I'd just like to see a Goku who DOES want to fight. I want to see him with confidence. I want to see him angry and act on it then. He's the kind of guy who doesn't need others to give him pep talks; he's the one who gives them.

Everything I've seen of Chatwin's "Goku" so far; the guy seems so melancholy and emotionless.

If Roshi and Gohan die, he's going to be furious and vengeful, not bland and flippant.

I'm not saying Goku's happy all the time, he's not; nobody is. But would it kill the marketing team to portray him as a character with even a little enthusiasm? This isn't Shinji or Sasuke, it's Goku! >_<

How am I supposed to have faith in this film when there's nothing aside from that chicken-leg screenshot to persuade me that ANY of the man's personality's been carried over into the movie?!

Snail · Post by **Snail** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:38 am

So..from what I can gather, the pessimists of this film are viewed upon as obsessive fan-boys who whine and cry because it isn't a line by line, frame by frame, utmost 100 percent faithful adaptation by some of the optimists.

Think of it this way. The casual fans aren't going to go about a long-winded logical explanation as to why they're in utter dismay concerning the film. As a result, complaints are carefully wrapped in a neat tidy box of "What-the-fuck-is-this-shit?". In turn, the dedicated fans simply aren't happy that their beloved anime is being morphed into a lazy-looking subpar production with a random sprinkle of The Hills. It's much too far of a deviation from it's source material to be taken with content.

So where exactly did this notion about the naysayers being uber-obsessive-fanboys who will complain about each and every fiber of the film stem from?

And by the way..

JAPPO wrote:
omegacwa wrote:Some people are going to like it, others not, I don't understand why people are getting so crazy over it.
I really have no idea either. People are acting like they own the series.

Because it's unsettling to acknowledge the fact that this could be the first and last chance Dragonball has to make it's splash on the big screen.

MisterFlashdude wrote:Things like a turkey leg and Piccolo being green just seemed like icing on a cake of shit.

lovely.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 am

Snail wrote:So..from what I can gather, the pessimists of this film are viewed upon as obsessive fan-boys who whine and cry because it isn't a line by line, frame by frame, utmost 100 percent faithful adaptation by some of the optimists.

Don't forget how the optimists and pro-movie folk are treated like senseless yes-mans with no standards.

Kanzenshuu

John on international response to the live-action movie

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