Ignorance when it comes to DBZ and other Anime

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 8:33 am

Zackarotto wrote: And now I'm dropping that, so where will I get my OP from?!

4Kids? ^^

I <3 the iggnorance levels toward them, I just want to see the looks on Naruto fans faces if they were to get that series...although I must admit, those Uncut Shaman King dvds are quite alright for 14 bucks. Gonna be quite a wait though for OP

BTW, did anyone see Oda's redenation of what appears to be Snoop Dog in one of the volumes of OP? I didnt know Oda liked rap...

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:03 am

Oda likes Soul. It's what he listens to when he writes. Beyond the SN rendition he never mentioned rap though.

edit: since this is a double post, if you feel it threatens the balance of the Force you may delete it if you desire. My bad.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 11:24 am

For some reason I'm suddenly curious about something, what do you think of Naruto, Omae? I'd ask about OP too, but that answer's obvious.

Whereas OP has taken DB formula, deconstructed it, and worked from the ground up to create something new, aided only by the author's ingenuity and seemingly endless creativity, Naruto appears to be a level down from what DB even was.

Take for example the written exam. How many chapters were wasted on that and how obvious was the result. Anyone who hasn't seen the famous "unrevealed final question" routine needs to catch some classic manga. Yes, DB had obvious results in its conflicts, good guys would ultimately win, the mystery was in who would be left at the end. Not that anyone dying ever changed for too long

Then we have this most recent resolution...well...if you can call it that...where there was straight fighting for a year except around Chapter 200. When there was a saga that came to completion in DB, we were always presented with some new obstacle that had previously been unknown or sometimes it zapped us into the future. This recent saga ended exactly the way it started minus 5 villains one of whom was DISGUSTINGLY COOL AND SHOULD NEVER HAVE DIED THAT WAY. It was essentially pissing into the wind for a year. We knew from the very start Sasuke wasn't going to turn around and start loving everyone. So why spend a year pulling down the story. In DB and OP each and every saga ends with the utmost importance either opening up something new or setting the stage for something we couldn't have imagined (ex. Skypiea's gold raid at the very end has set in motion the Water 7 arc) Whereas Sasuke being thrown in the pot to stew and running away could have been handled in a month of comics.

And just my honest opinion, I don't like the morals of each story.

For example:
"A hero comes in at the last minute"- What about those who fight before the hero and fall bravely.

I guess I don't care about Naruto's characters because they're so selfish and absorbed in themselves. It makes sense that Americans would like it because Naruto is for all intensive purposes, different from everyone else because he stands out, makes his point known, doesn't feel the need to fight with the group and talks like a brat AKA American. You don't think he has blonde hair for no reason do you? I respect the author for adding countless interesting details in there but I just don't like his characters. EXCEPT THAT BONE-THROWING F*CKER! HE WAS AWESOME

I'm not going to get into "character depth" crap because that's not important. Characters in OP too are for the most part one dimensional during the actual story. It's their pasts that show how they became the way they are, and which are exactly the reason why I started to like the series. If you read Nami's past and don't at the very least respect Oda as a writer, I cannot even imagine you're human.

I respect Naruto fans and I respect Naruto. It's by no means a BAD series! It just shows no advancement as far as authors' capability to make a new kind of story and I don't like the characters themselves. That doesn't mean I can't understand why it isn't popular and of course I read it too

Oh, someone asked for One Piece manga? Here, this should keep you busy for a while http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga

The S · Post by **The S** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:39 pm

I really hate the word "Japanimation", though. It just sounds awful on the ears to hear that specific term, even if it follows a rule in the book I live by on how to be lazy: "Be lazy with your words! Shortening syllables is the key to victory."

Let me tell you a story about "Japanimation"...

My friend Rumi (a Japanese exchange student) and I were at the mall one time, and she overheard an old lady use the word "Japanimation" when describing anime. She asked me what that was, and I told her that it was the ignorant American way of saying "anime." She busted up laughing and I asked her what was so funny, and she said it was the stupidest word she's ever heard. She said there's only three things she knows of that anime has been called in Japan: "anime", "anime-shon" (obviously the phonetic Japanese way of saying "animation"), and "kaatuun".

About the DBZ/OP/Naruto thing, I guess it's one of those "different strokes for different folks issues. For example, the order I listed previously is my order of preference of the three. I like DBZ the most because I grew up with Dragon Ball (having watched the 80's dub), and One Piece, although not even amongst my top 10 favorites, but it's got clever writing and unique characters. Naruto, although I don't dislike it, isn't really my taste. I really love nin-ja, it moves at too slow of a pace; it seems even slower than the DBZ anime's "5 minutes equals 20 episodes" thing. The humor is great, though (the Ninja Turtle reference kicks ass), and nobody can beat Kakashi-sensei in coolness (although many seem to think Sasuke can... but I think he's a conceded geek).

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Fri Oct 22, 2004 4:54 pm

omae no kaasan wrote:Oh, someone asked for One Piece manga? Here, this should keep you busy for a while http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga

Aww. Now I owe you my soul.

(Thanks a bunch.)

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Sat Oct 23, 2004 3:08 pm

no worries, just enjoy!

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:59 pm

Who was it again that said Naruto is like a ''prequel'' to One Piece? It's farfetched. As in, very farfetched, but to me it makes sense, in a way.

In my opinion, there are two ways to look at a series: Cynical, or not cynical. For instance, you could say Pokemon has little to no character development, an uninteresting plot and no maturity. But that's completely neglecting the good points. Pokemon is an enjoyable show, and lots of fun. Naruto has basic plot outlines, cliched and sometimes predictable, but the characters are incredibly entertaining to watch, and they develop immensely. One Piece has predictable, one dimensional characters, but a stirring and original plot and story.

I love all those series for those good points. I completely ignore the bad points... I don't even notice them when I'm reading or watching the series. From what I can gather, Omae no Kaasan is apparently more drawn to series which excel at storytelling and plot. Or rather, that's what I make up from his post. I guess I'm a bit more flexible or something.

Then again, all of this is opinional. Feel free to disagree with me. This is simply how I feel. I love both Dragon Ball, Naruto and One Piece equally.

Except the Naruto anime. The Naruto anime just sucks.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:19 pm

I completely agree with Dai, I just couldn't put it into words like that.

I have this theory that if Naruto didn't exist, then all the Naruto fans would love One Piece, and if One Piece didn't exist, all the One Piece fans would be in love with Naruto.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:31 am

For some reason now, I just got this picture in my head that the One Piece fans and Naruto fans are going to become like the Star Trek fans vs. Star Wars fans. I really hope not.

Super Sonic · Post by **Super Sonic** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:34 am

Whoa! I'm glad I just stick to what's been released in US Jump so far and don't get involved in that kind of stuff.

Izlude · Post by **Izlude** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:26 am

Ben Plante wrote:I completely agree with Dai, I just couldn't put it into words like that.

I have this theory that if Naruto didn't exist, then all the Naruto fans would love One Piece, and if One Piece didn't exist, all the One Piece fans would be in love with Naruto.

And if nethier existed, they all would turn into females and love Inuyasha

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:08 pm

I have this theory that if Naruto didn't exist, then all the Naruto fans would love One Piece, and if One Piece didn't exist, all the One Piece fans would be in love with Naruto.
_________________

I couldn't disagree with that more. For reasons previously stated, the two series are quite different. If one didn't exist, I wouldn't suddenly change what I like in a story. Nor should anyone.

And it has nothing to do with being "flexible" it has to do with enjoying reading something new a great deal more than something that's already been done before. I'll admit I like what's new, but in OP's case, not only is it fresh, but it is done oh so well.

Like I said, I follow both series very closely. But I'm with the manga-reading and Japanese animation-watching population of Japan when I agree that OP is the best damn shounen action/adventure now in publication.

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:26 pm

And it has nothing to do with being "flexible" it has to do with enjoying reading something new a great deal more than something that's already been done before.

Which has everything to do with being flexible. When I read Naruto, I don't think "Oh my, that's been done before.'', I think ''Woohoo! Go!.'' or ''Man, I wish he hadn't done that...''. When I read One Piece, I don't think ''Pshaw. Stupid one-dimensional characters.'', I think ''Oh wow, I didn't see that coming! What'll happen next?''.

That, you could say, all has to with personal preferences, and that's true, but a flexible reading style is entirely tied to preferences. I can completely neglect most of Naruto's bad points when reading it. You can't. Whereas you can easily overlook One Piece's bad points. Or perhaps, don't even notice them. One Piece excels at its plot storytelling, and Naruto doesn't, but has other valuable good points. If you can overlook bad points in One Piece, but not in Naruto, that means you entirely prefer One Piece's good points. Whereas you don't prefer, or perhaps don't even notice Naruto's good points. I enjoy both, and easily neglect most bad points when doing so. I therefore ''prefer'' both series' good points equally, whereas they are like opposites to you. Which means I'm probably a lot more flexible in those preferences. Or I'm just not as cynical, which comes down to the same thing.

Again, that's just my take on things. Disagreeing is fine, but I stand by this nonetheless, which isn't something you can change by saying ''That isn't true'', because to me, it is. It might not be to you, but it is to me, and as long as we agree on that it's all handy dandy fine and I can now go and do something more productive than this. I think I'll go plant a tree. I've always wanted to plant a tree.

Ben Plante · Post by **Ben Plante** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 11:52 pm

Actually, to defend my statement, I didn't really mean one side would automatically like the other, but they wouldn't be so quick to pick at it.

Apples and Oranges to me though, I love both. I only just started on the OP anime but I read 30 or so manga volumes online, and I have all of the Naruto anime and manga. That's all I'll say, I knew this would come up eventually and I swore I wouldn't get involved... plus this is hardly Dragonball general discussion anymore.Red Sox!

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 2:48 pm

Which has everything to do with being flexible.

Then that would mean anyone who doesn't like anything for a particular reason isn't flexible. An interesting opinion.

Dai · Post by **Dai** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:06 pm

You know, I won't bother. If you want to feel right at all times, by all means continue, but don't expect me to do the same. We obviously have different views on things. Fine. Let's leave it at that. Trying to defend mine to someone like you just doesn't interest me in the slightest anymore. Especially if you feel resorting to sarcasm is the way to go.

Conversations like this usually result in tiresome and useless arguments. Maybe you simply misunderstood what I said, but even then, I can't say how I could explain things any better than I did. I could try, but that would result in nothing. If we could just end this conversation here, it would be for the best. And I could continue eating this wholesome, delicious apple. Apples are tasty.

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 6:51 pm

Especially if you feel resorting to sarcasm is the way to go.

Actually, I wasn't being sarcastic at all. I accept your view and I think it is interesting. I also agree that you explained your view quite well:

If somone dislikes something for a stated reason, they are inflexible.

I had never looked at it that way but to each his own.

I can completely neglect most of Naruto's bad points when reading it. You can't. Whereas you can easily overlook One Piece's bad points. Or perhaps, don't even notice them. One Piece excels at its plot storytelling, and Naruto doesn't, but has other valuable good points. If you can overlook bad points in One Piece, but not in Naruto, that means you entirely prefer One Piece's good points.

I would just beg a few minutes of your time so that you might consider reading my entire posts, as I did point out OP's weak points, which I wouldn't dare overlook because it has plenty and falls into the category of contrived at times.

Have a great one!

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:02 pm

Jerseymilk wrote:For some reason now, I just got this picture in my head that the One Piece fans and Naruto fans are going to become like the Star Trek fans vs. Star Wars fans. I really hope not.

What, how Star Trek fans tend to be complete ignorant asses? And a Star Wars fan could be anyone?

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 7:43 pm

Isn't it like comparing a Douche and Turd Sandwich?

oponok · Post by **oponok** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 8:45 pm

EVERYTHING SUCKS EQUALLY.

Except the films of Brakhage, because of their unrefined charm and subjectivity. Although I was moderately disgusted when he glued dead moths to a strip of 16mm film and gave it a title.

The end.

Kanzenshuu

Ignorance when it comes to DBZ and other Anime

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