Strange matchup in Budokai 3 Intro?

[ChibiKenji]

Um, duh?! By this point they know that the bulk of SSJU (That's how I do it now, kills confusion) and SSJU2 slows them down to damn much to be of use so of course they'd cut it at a 'happy medium'. SSJU0.5 if you like.

Vegeta didn't seem to suffer a huge amount of speed-loss against Semi-Perfect Cell. The slowdown wasn't overly noticeable 'til Trunks went USSj2 against Perfect Cell.

But there's absolutely no way this could be pre-RoSaT as Gohan is a Super Saiya-jin.

Dende was the Earth's Kami in movie #6. Therefore, it must obviously take place in the Cell arc!

...oh wait.

[Deus ex Machina]

Heh, I knew you would come back to debate...*cracks knuckles*

First off, let's get our timelines right. This movie is taking place in some kind of fictional space of time, after Goku and Gohan have used the Room of Spirit & Time (hereafter reffered to as RoS&T), and before Cell games. There's plenty of ways to confirm this:

• Vegeta has his bulky appearance, even outside of SSJ
• Trunks has shoulder length hair
• Gohan appears "teenage", in height, muscle, and hair.
• Gohan has transformed into SSJ, but not SSJ2

And before you say it; yes, I know this movie could not possibly fit within the canon timeline. It's a movie, it wasn't meant to, it just uses the characters and their approximate powers for that time in the series. If Broli was as powerful as 16 or 18 at best, he would've got slaughtered by either Vegeta or Trunks easily.

Some argue that Trunks and Vegeta were fighting Broli at atleast USSJ1, but I doubt that too. After the defeat by Cell, they both abandoned that transformation because of it's short-comings. Transforming into a higher stage wouldn't have made any difference against a guy like Broli, and would've only consumed more Ki (not to mention take away from Goku being in the spot light).

Now, as far as I see it, Broli has to be atleast on the same level as Perfect Cell once he's powered up. Cell and Goku fought evenly at the Cell Games, when Cell was holding back. However, Broli nearly killed Goku with only a few hits, it wasn't equal at all. Beyond that, I can't really say how strong Broli is (aside from him being weaker than Hatchihyakku )

[Rocketman]

Like I've posted on another board once, I think the first Broly movie happens in an alternate timeline where SSjU Vegeta kills Second-Form Cell, not allowing him to reach Perfect form.

Proof:

1. Goku and Gohan aren't FPSSjs because they don't need to be.
2. Vegeta wusses out because he 'knows' he's the strongest Z-Warrior and a Super Saiyan kick to Broly's neck when Broly wasn't blocking didn't even faze Broly.
3. The school is open, since there won't be a Cell Games.
4. Gohan seems to be weaker because Broly doesn't give him any time to tap into his rage.
5. Trunks doesn't use SSjU2 because it would take far too long to power up.

[ChibiKenji]

This movie is taking place in some kind of fictional space of time, after Goku and Gohan have used the Room of Spirit & Time (hereafter reffered to as RoS&T), and before Cell games.

If that's so, Goku and Gohan would have would have used FPSSj. Let's just assume they did (despite the lack of 24/7 transformation, which was the initial reason Goku created it).

Movie #10 Brolly (who's stated by Gohan to be at the same power as he was in Movie #8 ) is defeated by SSj Teen Gohan, and SSj Goten. Gohan got a lot weaker over the seven years of peace, as shown by his not dominating Dabura (who is at first said to be around the power of, and then stronger than, Cell).

Gohan is stronger than Goten, but weaker than himself seven years ago, and yet they manage to defeat Brolly, who absolutely slaughtered that stronger version of Gohan, along with Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo.

In fact, Brolly seems to defy logic all together. Everyone fighting at once can't beat Brolly, but then a single punch (with some energy from the others, who could barely stand up) from Goku defeats him. Seven years later, when he has the same power, he is defeated by Gohan and Goten. He doesn't make sense.

How about we just agree to disagree, and keep our theories to ourselves. There's too much contradiction to come up with anything solid enough to be considered fact.

[Xyex]

If that's so, Goku and Gohan would have would have used FPSSj. Let's just assume they did (despite the lack of 24/7 transformation, which was the initial reason Goku created it).

Other than the 24/7 transforamtion there's no physical difference between FPSSJ (god I hate that term) and SSJ. You can't honestly say they weren't using that form. And no, Gohan's SSJ form was weaker than Goku's, his strength was in his hidden and sleeping powers so of course Goku'd be doing better since he's the strongest.

Movie #10 Brolly (who's stated by Gohan to be at the same power as he was in Movie #8 ) is defeated by SSj Teen Gohan, and SSj Goten. Gohan got a lot weaker over the seven years of peace, as shown by his not dominating Dabura (who is at first said to be around the power of, and then stronger than, Cell).

And I still have not seen movie 10 but I refuse to believe Gohan was only at level 1 in that movie. Blue lightning energy or not (Toei's lazy, face it) he was at level 2. As you said, he was considerably weaker than before and his SSJ2 was about on par with the power of Perfect Cell and therefor, Brolly.

Gohan is stronger than Goten, but weaker than himself seven years ago, and yet they manage to defeat Brolly, who absolutely slaughtered that stronger version of Gohan, along with Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, and Piccolo.

In fact, Brolly seems to defy logic all together. Everyone fighting at once can't beat Brolly, but then a single punch (with some energy from the others, who could barely stand up) from Goku defeats him. Seven years later, when he has the same power, he is defeated by Gohan and Goten. He doesn't make sense.

Not seen movie 8 yet (probably will by Monday) but if IRC Brolly was not defeated by that punch. He did come back for movie 10 did he not? He survived that punch, did he not? And if IRC he was knocked into a goddamn comet, yes? THAT'S how he lost to them, not the punch. In fact, wasn't the planet destroyed moments after that punch by the comet? IMO Brolly would have come back and kept pounding on them all had that comet not obliterated everything.

[ChibiKenji]

And no, Gohan's SSJ form was weaker than Goku's, his strength was in his hidden and sleeping powers so of course Goku'd be doing better since he's the strongest.

Gohan thought that Goku was holding back in his fight with Cell, because he was comparing Goku's strength to his own. Gohan's hidden powers that are brought out by rage have always been undetectable by basic ki-sensing, and that's all he was doing.

Not seen movie 8 yet (probably will by Monday) but if IRC Brolly was not defeated by that punch. He did come back for movie 10 did he not? He survived that punch, did he not? And if IRC he was knocked into a goddamn comet, yes? THAT'S how he lost to them, not the punch. In fact, wasn't the planet destroyed moments after that punch by the comet? IMO Brolly would have come back and kept pounding on them all had that comet not obliterated everything.

Brolly exploded after that punch, it's clearly seen. It wasn't until TOEI thought one day 'Gee, let's make another Brolly movie!' that there was any suggestion that he survived. The fact that he survived is as illogical as anything else TOEI can come out with.

[Frobman]

1 simple thing: Both Gogeta and Broly are non-canon characters! Therefore they wouldn't bother who is stronger or how strong and that stuff.

[Sun_Wukong]

I always thought Brolly was around the same level as Super Perfect Cell, wich is why they had such a difficult time with him. The match up I really didnt understand was SSJ Gohan vs Metal Cooler. Shouldnt Gohan have Pwned Cooler, considering Goku and Vejiita beat him at only SSJ? That brings up the theory weither Gohan got weaker during the 7 years.

God people, we're making a simple intro movie a hellve a lot more complicated than it needs to be. -_-

Then again, thats the Daizex forums for ya. Not yer average DBZ fans.

[Jordy]

By the way VegettoEX

The dub name of the intro song is "The greatest energy" as stated in the credits. You might want to edit the name in your download section.

[VegettoEX]

Yeah, I got the name, there, way back on the 17th . Just keep forgetting to add it on the site. I'll... uhh... get around to it!

*doing lots of random site maintenance today*

And technically, it's "The Ultimate Energy!!"... correct capitalization and punctuation, and all ^_~.