Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

[Chuquita]

Obviously what bothers you the most is that our heroes did not step in to save Pan and I don't blame you. Well one could argue Dragonball's protagonist's, no matter how well meaning, where not always the most sensitive *cough*Son Goku*cough*. I too thought in the last page we would have seen either Videl, Gohan or even Goten try to save Pan and stop the match only to be stopped by Vegetto or Piccolo, who then reminds them of "the rules". Still we only saw them watch in horror and not do anything. I guess that could be cruel but really I think even someone as strong as Gohan just could not believe what was happening. I also think Gohan was conflicted about whether he should stop the match or not since his daughter was adamant about fighting to the end. Hopefully we see their reaction, especially Gohan's (U16) in the next page. Also this is not unheard of in Dragonball. Son Goku also stood by and let his own child get thrashed in the Cell Games. I don't think he did not care about Son Gohan's welfare but he was also handicapped by his faith (or obsession) in his son's abilities. I find it ironic Son Gohan is now in the same situtation!

This doujinshi is suddenly getting dramatic. Still I find it is a good thing rather than a bad thing, so long as it does not change the character's behavior to the point that it is no longer a "Dragonball" doujinshi.

The nobody-bothering-to-stop-Pan-from-being-killed thing is at the heart of what bothers me the most of all this.


I agree that Goku's done lots of bad parenting. He's really, really dense sometimes when it comes to realizing that not everyone around him loves martial arts and goes by the code that comes with it. (Also, giving Cell a senzu bean.....WHY!? >_O ) Goku actually does get Gohan, Goten, Trunks, and Piccolo indirectly killed near the end of the Buu arc when they get left behind on the exploding Earth so I guess I can use that as a parallel in some ways. Luckily Vegeta chews him out for it as soon as they reappear at the Kai's. I think he had every right to be enraged at Goku.


I don't know, I just thought Gohan would behave differently in such a situation. I was looking for the equivalent of Piccolo rushing in to take the blow for young Gohan in the saiyajin arc. But no, he just stood there looking on instead and it's just irritating to me.



Oh I don't want them going ooc on the characters either, but I just find it hard to accept that Gohan wouldn't act on stopping Bojack from killing Pan--especially when he steps in to stop Spopovitch from killing Videl in the Buu arc. Gohan doesn't go by the martial arts code the way Goku does, Gohan's more of a 'superhero' type, which is why it seemed even more unnatural to me.

I don`t think they explained the origin of this Brolly. It is possible that he killed all or most of his universe (like that ultimate buu) and then just froze in space.

There is no water in space to freeze around him.

True, but then again this is Dragon Ball. Sayans aren`t supposed to be able to survive in space either for example, but Brolly did. Anyway I said in my second post that it could be the depths of space or some uninhabited planet.

To the ones who say it was gruesome... Gohan had his neck broken in namek and it was very visible. It even showed him having little spasms. He didn`t die because Goku got there in time with a bean but it was more gruesome than this.

*Recycles her reply to the very same thing she was confronted about by another poster*

Though yeah, I guess you could have made it even more gruesome of a death than that. He could've ripped her open and started pulling out her organs while she was still conscious or physically crushed her skull on the tournament floor until her eyeballs blew up or popped out and went rolling across the floor; something like that.

So yeah, neck-snapping isn't as gruesome as what I just described there, but it's still no harmless paper-cut or mosquito bite. >_>

Bleh, I should've never commented in this thread in the first place; all its doing is getting me upset and I'm wasting my time defending my own opinions. I never said they were facts!


*Sighs and head-desks, tired*.







I swear it's like it's not even worth it sometimes; it's not like I insulted the comic or anything. First time I give my opinion in this entire thread on something that I had an issue with and people jump down my throat like my opinion is 'wrong'. It's an opinion God dammit! I think her parents should've stepped in. I'm not 'right', I'm not 'wrong'; it's just what I happen to think.


If I'd have known people'd start acting this way I would NEVER have posted in the damn thread to begin with; I have other things I should be doing and I shouldn't have clicked submit on my initial post in the first place. Now I'm fielding accusations and 'your-opinion-is-wrong stuff' when I should be going to sleep because I'm that way where I can't NOT come back to defend myself when I'm called out! >_<


Anyway, I've totally learned my lesson on posting my opinion in this thread. Unless I get called out on it again, I don't intend on coming back and posting in this thread; it's just not worth it when all I'm doing is causing myself unnecessary aggravation.

[Minigt]

Yeah here's a quote I read on this forum somewhere:

"Arguing on the internet is like winning the spastic olympics, you may win, but your still spastic".

For whats its worth, I think they should have stepped in too - but then we wouldnt have gotten Pan getting her neck cracked. Now that was AWESOME!

[Wojak]

Frankly, you "pro-neck-crack" guys make me sick. I'm just being honest.

At lease when Gohan got his neck snapped he was like "I'm never going to give up, I'm the son of Son Goku!!!" and gave his all during that fight, which didn't last for mere minutes.
And also, he wasn't choked until then and didn't cry out of dispair.

I think that Salagir et. Al. were trying to copy some certain elements of that fight, but utterly failed as they seem to have forgotten the true meaning of that fight.

[Captain-Sora]

I think that Salagir et. Al. were trying to copy some certain elements of that fight, but utterly failed as they seem to have forgotten the true meaning of that fight.

That...OR they were simply just trying to continue the plot as they planned, have Pan defeated that specific way and be done with it. Not everything insinuates that many authors of series are trying to make out certain scenes to be some over dramatic crap where they think they're being cool by doing it or something, they're just simply making a character do what they'd do in that sudden moment. Bojack and Pan are not doing a stage fight you know. I don't really like a few things in this comic at times either, but this situation is starting to get exaggerated.

You don't simply limit yourself when you're doing a story and trying to make it seem like everything conveniently happens in an appropriate way, if Bojack chooses to snap her neck, then he will as he's a ficitional character who's being used in this story. He doesn't turn to the readers after they say "DON'T KILL HER LIKE THAT!" and then tries to end it in another way for them. If he wants to kill her and he is able to do so in that moment, then why the hell not?

Also, a simple defense (although debatable considering it's not like this defense could be right either) for the parents-aren't-doing-anything issue is that maybe the whole moment was swiftly done. He grabs her by the neck, the following panels show him chuckling while everyone's responds in shock and then finally *snap*. Manga characters tend to take 5 seconds to be emotionally charged before moving their ass anyways, just be happy it doesn't take them 5 chapters like when the anime has everyone just standing there gawking for half an hour.

[rereboy]

Frankly, you "pro-neck-crack" guys make me sick. I'm just being honest.

At lease when Gohan got his neck snapped he was like "I'm never going to give up, I'm the son of Son Goku!!!" and gave his all during that fight, which didn't last for mere minutes.
And also, he wasn't choked until then and didn't cry out of dispair.

I think that Salagir et. Al. were trying to copy some certain elements of that fight, but utterly failed as they seem to have forgotten the true meaning of that fight.

Or maybe Bojack is just a cold blooded killer like he`s supposed to be.

That way we can really hate him and be glad when somebody pwns him. That`s how stories are built typically.

And frankly somebody who gets over sensitive about something fictional, clearly not over the top (she can be brought back to life and it wasn`t that gruesome compared to the original series since Gohan was around six or seven years old when he got his neck broken and his scene was more graphic) and that clearly serves as a plot point to change the atmosphere of the manga (to be more serious), makes me sick too.

[Freeza Heika]

I don`t think they explained the origin of this Brolly. It is possible that he killed all or most of his universe (like that ultimate buu) and then just froze in space.

There is no water in space to freeze around him.

This is a retarded idea, but it still makes more sense than spontantaneously generating ice. Perhaps, after finally killing "KAKAROT!", Broly floated around in the rubble of the destroyed planet that they were fighting on, drooling all over himself, beacuse the joy over-took is neanderthal brain. The drool then proceeded to orbit around him, because he had incinerated anything that might have a larger gravitational pull than himself. The cold vacuum of space then encased him in a prison of his own impetence/drool.

[Pain]

I don`t think they explained the origin of this Brolly. It is possible that he killed all or most of his universe (like that ultimate buu) and then just froze in space.

There is no water in space to freeze around him.

This is a retarded idea, but it still makes more sense than spontaneously generating ice. Perhaps, after finally killing "KAKAROT!", Broly floated around in the rubble of the destroyed planet that they were fighting on, drooling all over himself, because the joy over-took is neanderthal brain. The drool then proceeded to orbit around him, because he had incinerated anything that might have a larger gravitational pull than himself. The cold vacuum of space then encased him in a prison of his own impetence/drool.

Why does everyone think that Broly's a complete dunce?

And how could he have been encased in drool?! You're liek flaming mine fav caractor, you n00b! u dont make me lol, at all!

[Wojak]

text

Well, I expected you to say something new...y'know, that I didn't know.
But you are not a mind reader, so...

And frankly somebody who gets over sensitive about something fictional, clearly not over the top (she can be brought back to life and it wasn`t that gruesome compared to the original series since Gohan was around six or seven years old when he got his neck broken and his scene was more graphic) and that clearly serves as a plot point to change the atmosphere of the manga (to be more serious), makes me sick too.

Hey, dude, read my post again. I'm not sick of the fan-manga, but by the comments you people give. I'm sick of you being like "AWESOME!" and such and acting like kids seeing blood for the first time.

I can't see how someone breaking someone elses neck could be cool, especially when they are far superior in power.

I've seen dead people in person and in fiction and I wouldn't see myself as over sensitive over death at all, whether it's fiction or reality.

I don't get where you get sensitive from at all.

[JulieYBM]

I just want to say I agree with Chu. That death was pretty damn harsh, but certainly not unexpected from a scumbag like Bojack. My main beef too lies in Gohan's lack of action, but I suppose the next page will rectify that. It's likely it was too brief for him to intervene--what with the shock and horror kickin' in--so I suspect he'll turn Bojack into dust with a punch or two and take Pan over to Ultimate Mega Super Majin Boo.

[Rocketman]

This is a retarded idea, but it still makes more sense than spontantaneously generating ice. Perhaps, after finally killing "KAKAROT!", Broly floated around in the rubble of the destroyed planet that they were fighting on, drooling all over himself, beacuse the joy over-took is neanderthal brain. The drool then proceeded to orbit around him, because he had incinerated anything that might have a larger gravitational pull than himself. The cold vacuum of space then encased him in a prison of his own impetence/drool.

Liquid water boils away in space because the pressure is too low.

[KaiserNeko]

Frankly, you "pro-neck-crack" guys make me sick. I'm just being honest.

At lease when Gohan got his neck snapped he was like "I'm never going to give up, I'm the son of Son Goku!!!" and gave his all during that fight, which didn't last for mere minutes.
And also, he wasn't choked until then and didn't cry out of dispair.

I think that Salagir et. Al. were trying to copy some certain elements of that fight, but utterly failed as they seem to have forgotten the true meaning of that fight.

Well, I'm not essentially Pro-Neck-Crack but that's mostly because I was hoping for a little bit more of a fight. But, as others have said, this is very much like Bojack. He doesn't like to waste time defeating opponents, especially pests who manage to annoy him. It's entirely in his character here and makes the audience despise him.

Feel less aggression towards the authors and more aggression towards the villain!

[rereboy]

text

Well, I expected you to say something new...y'know, that I didn't know.
But you are not a mind reader, so...

And frankly somebody who gets over sensitive about something fictional, clearly not over the top (she can be brought back to life and it wasn`t that gruesome compared to the original series since Gohan was around six or seven years old when he got his neck broken and his scene was more graphic) and that clearly serves as a plot point to change the atmosphere of the manga (to be more serious), makes me sick too.

Hey, dude, read my post again. I'm not sick of the fan-manga, but by the comments you people give. I'm sick of you being like "AWESOME!" and such and acting like kids seeing blood for the first time.

I can't see how someone breaking someone elses neck could be cool, especially when they are far superior in power.

I've seen dead people in person and in fiction and I wouldn't see myself as over sensitive over death at all, whether it's fiction or reality.

I don't get where you get sensitive from at all.

People say its cool because it is fiction. People see horror movies and gruesome killings in the movies and find it cool because its fiction. The only time people get sensitive by it its because they are over sensitive by nature or they are confusing some aspects of reality with the fiction. Which is what you did by finding "disturbing" such comments. The comments were not made regarding a real dead girl. Only a dead cartoon. You found it offensive because you started to think about the fight as it was real.

Of course there is a limit to fiction. There are cases where the material can only be considered sick. Like pedophile material and over the top gore that is downright disturbing. Neither is this case. This case and this fight is well within the limits of common sense.

[Freeza Heika]

This is a retarded idea, but it still makes more sense than spontantaneously generating ice. Perhaps, after finally killing "KAKAROT!", Broly floated around in the rubble of the destroyed planet that they were fighting on, drooling all over himself, beacuse the joy over-took is neanderthal brain. The drool then proceeded to orbit around him, because he had incinerated anything that might have a larger gravitational pull than himself. The cold vacuum of space then encased him in a prison of his own impetence/drool.

Liquid water boils away in space because the pressure is too low.

Let's assume that he drooled SO long, that the vapor from his drool was able to gravitate into a sphere which eventually, under its own gravity, compressed the center of the drool to a point that it would freeze. After all, I hate Broly just enough to make that assumption.

[Scarz]

Gruesome-wise, it has nothing to do with her gender, don't try to swing that tired old card at me it'd be gruesome no matter if it were her or Goten or Trunks or anyone. Mad It's that it happened on-screen. Silhouette and off-screen are two different things. When Kuririn was killed we didn't actually see the act itself. His death was a horrible act, but I don't know in exactly what manner he was killed. I mean gruesome as in how she was killed, not that she was killed. I wasn't even talking about Kuririn. What this was is more like Babidi making his minions implode/explode, only way less surreal.


Though yeah, I guess you could have made it even more gruesome of a death than that. He could've ripped her open and started pulling out her organs while she was still conscious or physically crushed her skull on the tournament floor until her eyeballs blew up or popped out and went rolling across the floor; something like that.

So yeah, neck-snapping isn't as gruesome as what I just described there, but it's still no harmless paper-cut or mosquito bite. >_>

I can see your point Chuquita and yes it could have made it much worse but I still can't bring myself to see gruesome side of Pan's neck snapping death.

Sometimes I wish the internet wasn't all text so I can tell when I'm being called out or not. I'm really awful at misreading the tone of these things.

If it helps I'm not the type to call someone out on the forums or in person. If I was speaking to you directly my tone of voice would be very chill and humorous. This kind of stuff is too funny to get mad over.

Bleh, I should've never commented in this thread in the first place; all its doing is getting me upset and I'm wasting my time defending my own opinions. I never said they were facts!


*Sighs and head-desks, tired*.

I swear it's like it's not even worth it sometimes; it's not like I insulted the comic or anything. First time I give my opinion in this entire thread on something that I had an issue with and people jump down my throat like my opinion is 'wrong'. It's an opinion God dammit! I think her parents should've stepped in. I'm not 'right', I'm not 'wrong'; it's just what I happen to think.

I thought it was weird too that Gohan didn't step in and actually do something! It was his own daughter and he just stood there, cold man. I found that more disturbing than Pan's death. It must be some Son family tradition letting your younger child fight someone 100 times stronger then they are. It's just bad parenting.

If I'd have known people'd start acting this way I would NEVER have posted in the damn thread to begin with; I have other things I should be doing and I shouldn't have clicked submit on my initial post in the first place. Now I'm fielding accusations and 'your-opinion-is-wrong stuff' when I should be going to sleep because I'm that way where I can't NOT come back to defend myself when I'm called out! >_<

The forum would be a much less entertaining place if everyone played nice and didn't react insanely over my opinions.

Anyway, I've totally learned my lesson on posting my opinion in this thread. Unless I get called out on it again, I don't intend on coming back and posting in this thread; it's just not worth it when all I'm doing is causing myself unnecessary aggravation.

Little stuff like this shouldn't get to you. If I had a nickle every time I was called out just by expressing my opinion...Well I'll still be broke but at least I have a bunch of nickles.

[Chuquita]

I can see your point Chuquita and yes it could have made it much worse but I still can't bring myself to see gruesome side of Pan's neck snapping death.

That's because it's an opinion. I'm not trying to make anyone change their mind about it. What any one person finds disturbing is completely subjective. I find a child being killed while the parents just stand there in shock, gruesome. I'm not here to "convince" you what it is or is not. Everyone has their own moral code.

If it helps I'm not the type to call someone out on the forums or in person. If I was speaking to you directly my tone of voice would be very chill and humorous. This kind of stuff is too funny to get mad over.

I don't like to call people out either. Getting into huge debates isn't something I care to spend time on, but I felt like I was called out, so I responded. *Shrugs*
To be honest I figured that my original comment would just fall into the ether like it sometimes does because there was a totally separate argument going on between a few other posters at the time.
I don't really find it funny, but I should know better by now than to let things I read on the internet upset me.

I thought it was weird too that Gohan didn't step in and actually do something! It was his own daughter and he just stood there, cold man. I found that more disturbing than Pan's death. It must be some Son family tradition letting your younger child fight someone 100 times stronger then they are. It's just bad parenting.

I've decided that depending on what Gohan's actions are in the next page, that I'm just going to chock this up to being an act of him being completely out of character. I seriously doubt Son "Great Saiyaman" Gohan of all people would stand there and let Pan be killed like that; dragon balls or not. I realize that despite the artwork looking very similar to the style used in the series, that it doesn't mean that everyone is going to be written in character and that's because its being written and drawn my someone who isn't Mr. Toriyama.


I've read enough doujinshi that I should know better by now that its not a given that accurate artwork would equal in-character writing.


Maybe Gohan'll fly off the handle in the next page and surprise me; who knows?

The forum would be a much less entertaining place if everyone played nice and didn't react insanely over my opinions.

I do read arguments that take place in the forums, but ending up getting brought in to argue myself takes all the entertainment value out of it for me. If I'd have known I'd get into an argument, I wouldn't have posted.

It wasn't about your opinion at all. The only part of the post that really pissed me off was the insinuation you made about me here with the part about Kuririn:

King Piccolo's minion killed Krillin back in Dragonball, off screen though, but he was still a kid. No one said that was too gruesome. Killing little boys is okay but killing little girls who could pretty much kick ass is a no-no. Double standard, I get that.

It seemed like a flippant assumption/insult. I never once said anything about Pan's gender being a factor (it is NOT a factor for me) and I never mentioned Kuririn at all yet you're making random guesses at how I felt about his death? That felt like a personal, out-of-left-field dig at me and I had the need to clarify after you said that that what you assumed about me wasn't true.

Little stuff like this shouldn't get to you. If I had a nickle every time I was called out just by expressing my opinion...Well I'll still be broke but at least I have a bunch of nickles.

I know, it's just that one comment really set me off and I shouldn't have let it, but I don't want people to think it was correct when its not. I tend to lurk more often nowadays anyway because getting into huge debates is more trouble for me than its worth.

[Wojak]

text

Well, I expected you to say something new...y'know, that I didn't know.
But you are not a mind reader, so...

And frankly somebody who gets over sensitive about something fictional, clearly not over the top (she can be brought back to life and it wasn`t that gruesome compared to the original series since Gohan was around six or seven years old when he got his neck broken and his scene was more graphic) and that clearly serves as a plot point to change the atmosphere of the manga (to be more serious), makes me sick too.

Hey, dude, read my post again. I'm not sick of the fan-manga, but by the comments you people give. I'm sick of you being like "AWESOME!" and such and acting like kids seeing blood for the first time.

I can't see how someone breaking someone elses neck could be cool, especially when they are far superior in power.

I've seen dead people in person and in fiction and I wouldn't see myself as over sensitive over death at all, whether it's fiction or reality.

I don't get where you get sensitive from at all.

People say its cool because it is fiction. People see horror movies and gruesome killings in the movies and find it cool because its fiction. The only time people get sensitive by it its because they are over sensitive by nature or they are confusing some aspects of reality with the fiction. Which is what you did by finding "disturbing" such comments. The comments were not made regarding a real dead girl. Only a dead cartoon. You found it offensive because you started to think about the fight as it was real.

Of course there is a limit to fiction. There are cases where the material can only be considered sick. Like pedophile material and over the top gore that is downright disturbing. Neither is this case. This case and this fight is well within the limits of common sense.

Well, I find it amusing how you "know" what I am thinking.
Whether it's fiction or reality, I think it's equally disturbing if someone thinks it's cool to see such graphic scenes.
It may be dramatic and climatic, yes, but in no way "cool" or "awesome".
Come back when you realize that fiction cannot be made without elements from reality, and that those are connected.
Just that you say that people go see horror movies because of that they are "cool" makes me want to cringe and throw up.
It's not as simple as you want it to be. Human emotions are more complex than that...

[Minigt]

I'm with you Chuquita. Some people post here looking for an aguement or are too blind to see that people can have different opinions. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Its when you see comments like - 'you neck cracker fans make me sick' (or something like that) that its a bit hard not to take personally. We all should have our say, but shouldn't direct personal derogitory criticisms towards other people.

[rereboy]

wojak

It might use elements from reality but it is different and seperate from it. Thats why its an art form. Because it is not real. It only exist to transmit the viewer a kind of emotion or response. But the emotion or response that it tries to achieve is always a shallow one because the public is supposed to understand that it is not real. The public is not supposed to react to it like it is a real thing.
And since the public knows its not real the degree of its response varies greatly even though the creators of the art form only generally intend to create a specific type of response.
Thats why in a movie we can have people in the public bored, excited, a little sad, cying, etc, all with the same movie and same scenes.

However, none of them are expected to react like what they are watching is real and none of them are expected to be criticized for their reaction to something that they knew wasn`t real. They watched it not with a real life perspective but with a entertainment perspective.
That`s also why I might enjoy playing a first person shooter based on the second world war, but not enjoy shooting real guns.

Of course there is a level of decency that even the art forms should follow. But this case is well within common sense like I said.

[Chuquita]

I'm with you Chuquita. Some people post here looking for an aguement or are too blind to see that people can have different opinions. Don't get me wrong, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Its when you see comments like - 'you neck cracker fans make me sick' (or something like that) that its a bit hard not to take personally. We all should have our say, but shouldn't direct personal derogitory criticisms towards other people.

*Nods*.


If I'd have known this thread was so full of highly-charged debate, I wouldn't have posted. I have nothing against debates, but when it comes to the internet, I'd rather be in the audience than a participant. With the lack of vocal tone, facial expressions, and body gestures, it makes it much more difficult to properly gauge a reaction. I usually try to avoid long threads in general unless I've followed it as it progressed because I don't have it in me to read the 84 or so pages of stuff that occurred before I submitted my initial post.


In retrospect, I probably should've read at least 5 of the pages that came before my initial post so I'd get a feel for how the thread had been going and known to not post at all.


Oh I agree that we should all have our say. It's that some of the replies that I got to my post contained sentences which seemed way too much like personal attacks that caused me to get upset.


I just didn't like that they made assumptions about me based on my opinion of a scene in the comic. I don't care if people don't agree with me, but I don't want them to assume why I feel as I do, or to be insulted on the grounds that I have a different view of things. People can say they don't agree without going to the lengths of insulting the person behind the post. I felt insulted by what a couple people said in reply to me.


Maybe it was the word "gruesome" that I used that set people off? A lot of them referenced that word. It was just the first descriptive word for what I saw that sprung to mind. If I'd said "uncomfortable", or "painful" or "tragic" I wonder if people would've reacted differently?



Debating is really tiring when I never even expected to have to defend myself in the first place. I just want to put the whole thing behind me so I don't have to come back to this thread and endlessly spend time debating with people. @_@

[DragonBalllKaiHD]

Chuquita, just ignore them. It's your opinion, after all. They are jealous. Does your opinion make you a bad person? No. Does they have a Chuquita brain inside their head? No. Do you have right to state your opinion? Obviously. If they complained about it, then it's his/her problem. Let them complain. It will get them no where. It's your darn opinion. Nobody's going to change the way you view it. If you have something to contribute, go ahead and say it. Nobody's gonna stop you, buddy. After all, the 18th century government didn't set up the Bill of Rights for no reason ^^

I learned this lesson hard way. When RoarkVegeta accused me of being Gokuden, I kept pushing myself to proving that I'm not him. I kept arguing until they stopped, but really, should I have kept going until they stopped it? No. It got me nowhere. VegettoEX wouldn't ban me without some solid evidences. The bunch of idiots just like to make us feel bad and lousy. My point is that you should ignore their complaints regardless of what your opinion is. You are never wasting your time contributing to your own darn opinion You can just shove up the stick in their butt and tell them to shut up.

Guys, let's settle down. There's no need to quarrel on one's opinion. Let just be a part of Daizex family.