English Dragon Box Release

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:38 am

I don't see why that counts as paranoid. It's a very valid objection.

The original Dragon Box releases from Japan had one audio track and that's it. One. Throwing the dub track on these is pushing it, but unavoidable considering that FUNimation wants to please everybody. But three audio tracks-- two dub AND the original Japanese-- is just unnecessary, not to mention a potentially serious tax on the discs visual quality even if the count is upped to seven instead of six. No, it might not be a drastic difference, but why should we settle for anything less than what the Dragon Boxes are truly meant to represent?

~Da Lemmy

Char Aznable · Post by **Char Aznable** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:43 am

Li'l Lemmy wrote:I don't see why that counts as paranoid. It's a very valid objection.

The original Dragon Box releases from Japan had one audio track and that's it. One. Throwing the dub track on these is pushing it, but unavoidable considering that FUNimation wants to please everybody. But three audio tracks-- two dub AND the original Japanese-- is just unnecessary, not to mention a potentially serious tax on the discs visual quality even if the count is upped to seven instead of six. No, it might not be a drastic difference, but why should we settle for anything less than what the Dragon Boxes are truly meant to represent?

~Da Lemmy

Indeed. From what I understand each R2 Dragon Box disc is filled almost to capacity with six episodes - each with one Japanese audio track and no subtitle track. One dub track was worrisome enough, but two is almost a guaranteed problem. Unless FUNimation is working some kind of magic with encoding these discs - and that's something that they really haven't done in the past - something is going to end up being sacrificed.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:44 am

I know I would settle for something that's barely and unnoticeably worse looking that the original.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:46 am

Why settle, though? We as fans have done that since the very first releases. This is the friggin' Dragon Box, for cryin' out loud; you don't get better than this. To settle for something less than what it really is is to spit in the face of everything we as a fandom have worked for with regards to wanting/getting the best possible release.

We're the first country ever to receive legitimate Dragon Box masters from Japan. We should take some pride in it.

~Da Lemmy

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:49 am

If it looks slightly better than Season 9 (which is pretty much the best looking R1 Dragon Ball Z release out there right now) and only slightly worse than the Japanese Dragon Box, then I'd definitely buy it. It ain't perfect, but then again, nothing is.

Char Aznable · Post by **Char Aznable** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:52 am

They key word, unfortunately, is settle. I feel that with something as high quality as the Dragon Boxes, a fan shouldn't have to settle because quite frankly, we've been forced to settle for thirteen or so years.

...this is it. This is the big one, the definitive release of Dragon Ball in any shape or form. I, as a Dragon Ball fan in the U.S., feel that I shouldn't have to settle on the Dragon Box when - like I said - this is the definitive. I'm glad FUNimation has said they're not going to touch it, but unfortunately they may be doing it unintentionally anyway.

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:52 am

jjgp1112 wrote:If it looks slightly better than Season 9 (which is pretty much the best looking R1 Dragon Ball Z release out there right now) and only slightly worse than the Japanese Dragon Box, then I'd definitely buy it. It ain't perfect, but then again, nothing is.

I understand your willingness to compromise-- hell, I share it-- but only up until a certain point. The Dragon Box masters stand for perfection. If FUNi can't deliver that basic quality, particularly when all the work has already been done for them, then just what is the value to having these? Yes, they'd still be better than the season sets, but they would not be . . . well, Dragon Box. And isn't Dragon Box what we've wanted?

Dragon Box is an ideal. That ideal should not be compromised for anything, IMO.

~Da Lemmy

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 1:57 am

MysticTrunks in the Funi Forums wrote:
FUNi Dragon Box:

Toei Dragon Box:

I think FUNis Dragon Box trailer was compressed at 640X480 and just a standard .AVI, no Xvid or even MPEG-2. But from both images FUNi did acquire the Dragon Box masters.

Damn, even YouTube quality looks decent compared to the real thing.

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:10 am

I already "settled" for something less-than-optimal once with the Season Sets. If I'm expected to re-buy the series for the sake of Dragon Box footage, then the video quality should be nothing less than the best FUNimation can make it.

If that means we only get one English track instead of two, then so be it. If that's going to happen, then by all means it should be the one with the better music.

Tekkaman-James · Post by **Tekkaman-James** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:12 am

Am I alone in thinking this? Only an invested fan would even know what a "Dragon Box" is, and it's not like FUNimation is pulling the orange bricks off the shelf for this. Plus, based on its price point, it's clearly being marketed only to the die-hard fans willing to shell out what roughly equates to $2 per episode. Would it then be out of line to assume/expect (or even hope/prefer) that the American Dragon Box contain only the Japanese audio with English subtitles? Thoughts?

Li'l Lemmy · Post by **Li'l Lemmy** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:21 am

I don't know if I'd go that far, because it isn't exclusively Japanese fans who have wanted Dragon Box quality and suffered with less-- we have all been forced to take our lumps in one way or another, so to exclude one half of the fanbase or the other from such a definitive release simply wouldn't be right.

However, in the instance that an unpleasant choice would need to be made, then it should be the original Japanese version all the way.

~Da Lemmy

RyujiOtogi · Post by **RyujiOtogi** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 2:41 am

If they can fit all three audio tracks onto the disc without compromising video or audio quality, then that's great. I don't really have anything against the Faulconer track. But if they can only use one of the tracks, then it should be the original score. Every other uncut anime release pairs the original score with the dub. DBZ shouldn't be any different. If one track has to be excluded, then it should be the one which shouldn't have been made in the first place. Changing the music score of an anime is just something you don't do. Again, I'm all for options. But not if they take away from the video/audio quality--which is the most important thing about this release. Having two different versions of the dub isn't.

Kunzait_83 · Post by **Kunzait_83** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:03 am

RyujiOtogi wrote:If they can fit all three audio tracks onto the disc without compromising video or audio quality, then that's great.
...

But if they can only use one of the English audio tracks, then it should be the one with the original Japanese music imho. Every other uncut anime release pairs the original score with the dub. Dragon Ball Z shouldn't be any different. If one track has to be excluded, then it should be the one that should have never been created in the first place. Changing the music score of an anime is just something you don't do imo.

Pretty much this 100%.

I think that the only anime (that I've come accross anyway) to ever have an altered BGM score for the English dub that not only didn't suck tremendously but actually managed to be in many ways equally as good as the original was Dominion Tank Police.

Anyhow yeah, I'm really not at all against the Faulconer score being on this, so long as it doesn't fuck with the quality in any way (and it's not like I ever have to listen to it, what with the default setting being the Japanese version, something I just can't stop myself from mentioning all the time lately

). Like NeptuneKai said awhile back in this thread, I'm a Bee: don't bother me, and I won't bother you.

But if it's inclusion will in any way affect the bitrate, not matter how slight, then by all means just kick that dead weight to the fucking curb.

Daimo-Rukiri · Post by **Daimo-Rukiri** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:04 am

jjgp1112 wrote:
MysticTrunks in the Funi Forums wrote:
FUNi Dragon Box:

Toei Dragon Box:

I think FUNis Dragon Box trailer was compressed at 640X480 and just a standard .AVI, no Xvid or even MPEG-2. But from both images FUNi did acquire the Dragon Box masters.
Damn, even YouTube quality looks decent compared to the real thing.

Didn't think anyone saw my post, but I've compressed episode 30 to exactly 640X240 to standard avi and it's exactly the same picture as the one FUNi has in their trailer. Please note, no HQ option is available and it's obvious it's not the accurate size of the frame. Also, did anyone notice from the large screen showing from the youtube showing that the Video actually looks exactly like the dboxs? And not the compressed version on youtube?

Even if the colors are slightly off which they won't be^^ you can easily recover them unlike the season sets.

Edit: Re watched the trailer and from the youtube screen it's exact to my reference, but blurred since well it's at a small frame and not encoded properly or could just be that it was just cut/pasted improperly.

Eddie · Post by **Eddie** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:36 am

What does that Vegeta pic look like in the "remastered" sets? Also, does anybody here have a friend at Comic Con? Funi's supposed to be there with that DBox mockup.

SSj_Rambo · Post by **SSj_Rambo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:40 am

Eddie wrote:What does that Vegeta pic look like in the "remastered" sets? Also, does anybody here have a friend at Comic Con? Funi's supposed to be there with that DBox mockup.

We all have a friend at Comic Con, a friend in Castor Troy!

He took a picture with it over on his twitter page.

And the screen looks like crap in the season set. That is all.

B · Post by B » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:28 am

Just to throw this out, how many casual fans know who Bruce Faulconer is? I mean, if some random joe watches NCIS in his spare time because he has nothing better to do(and because USA plays it all day), he's not gonna go out and look for who composes the music. And since this isn't being catered to casual fans... then perhaps FUNi should just forget ti ever existed.

Freeza Heika · Post by **Freeza Heika** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:43 am

Eddie wrote:What does that Vegeta pic look like in the "remastered" sets.

Pretty blue...

Tanooki Kuribo · Post by **Tanooki Kuribo** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:46 am

The blue sky is how I always could tell FUNi's version from any other version in the world.

jjgp1112 · Post by **jjgp1112** » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:46 am

B wrote:Just to throw this out, how many casual fans know who Bruce Faulconer is? I mean, if some random joe watches NCIS in his spare time because he has nothing better to do(and because USA plays it all day), he's not gonna go out and look for who composes the music. And since this isn't being catered to casual fans... then perhaps FUNi should just forget ti ever existed.

Yeah, the fact that they even know who he is should say something about how "hardcore" they are. They've obviously done their research.

And as far as video quality goes, I'd be perfectly fine if the difference between them is as miniscule the difference between the GT singles and the GT Dragon Box:

GT Single:

GT Dragon Box:

Can you even really tell the difference outside of the Funi one being slightly zoomed in?