Why was anyone surprised Vegeta could turn SSJ?

Vaeran · Post by **Vaeran** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 10:59 am

Listening to the most recent podcast covering manga volume 29 made me wonder about this. It's probably another little Toriyama oversight that has no real explanation, but I also don't think I've ever seen it brought up before.

Vegeta shocks everyone by revealing that he can become a Super Saiyajin, right? In order to know that he can do this, he must have done it at least once before, during training. So why didn't anyone else on Earth sense it the first time? We know that a Super Saiyajin gives off a very specific aura to those who are ki-sensitive (when Trunks goes SSJ in front of everyone, Gohan exclaims that it feels just like the power his dad had on Namek). So what gives?

Bura · Post by **Bura** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:01 am

Well, if we go by the anime, he did train in *space*. So that could be an explanation. In the anime Vegeta even went SSJ for the first time while on another planet.

johnboy1 · Post by **johnboy1** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:47 pm

The anime... FIXING a plot hole? My God, I never thought I'd see this day.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:52 pm

Yes, its one rare occasion in which the anime did something right, even if it didn`t mean to fix that plothole.

Amigo Ten · Post by **Amigo Ten** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:00 pm

Just one of those inconsistencies. No one ever seems to sense stuff like that, unless it helps the story. I mean, Gohan felt SSJ3 Goku's power from the Kai's planet, but no one felt Ultimate Gohan's power from Earth. Other than Buu of course, but he needed to so he could plan something.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:08 pm

How far away do can these powerlevels be felt, though? I know in the Buu saga the group on Supreme Kai's planet could feel Goku on earth when he turned SSJ3. Also, do they still feel it whenevr these characters start putting enery of the size or higher?

Saiyan-Professor · Post by **Saiyan-Professor** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:04 pm

Vaeran wrote:Listening to the most recent podcast covering manga volume 29 made me wonder about this. It's probably another little Toriyama oversight that has no real explanation, but I also don't think I've ever seen it brought up before.

Vegeta shocks everyone by revealing that he can become a Super Saiyajin, right? In order to know that he can do this, he must have done it at least once before, during training. So why didn't anyone else on Earth sense it the first time? We know that a Super Saiyajin gives off a very specific aura to those who are ki-sensitive (when Trunks goes SSJ in front of everyone, Gohan exclaims that it feels just like the power his dad had on Namek). So what gives?

The same problem exists with Vegeta going Super Saiyan 2. The Daizenshuu states that he achieved it through “harsh training”. Therefore, it had to occur during the 7 years before the Buu Saga. Yet, everyone acts all shocked when he transformed and they realize he had far surpassed Son Gohan back at the Cell Games.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:28 pm

I don't remember anyone being shocked about him using Super Saiyan 2. I think most people were shocked he was doing what he was doing (inconveniencing the whole planet, his family, and friends etc.). You'd think after Cell he'd has learned allowing the enemy to power up would get his son killed, but that's plot conveniences for you...

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:46 pm

JulieYBM wrote:I don't remember anyone being shocked about him using Super Saiyan 2.

Goku and Gohan were surprised.

But then, Gohan and Vegeta managed to miss Goten and Trunks' kis flaring up to Super Saiyan.

JulieYBM · Post by **JulieYBM** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:58 pm

Rocketman wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:I don't remember anyone being shocked about him using Super Saiyan 2.
But then, Gohan and Vegeta managed to miss Goten and Trunks' kis flaring up to Super Saiyan.

Yeah, got a point there.

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:04 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote:How far away do can these powerlevels be felt, though? I know in the Buu saga the group on Supreme Kai's planet could feel Goku on earth when he turned SSJ3. Also, do they still feel it whenevr these characters start putting enery of the size or higher?

Goku and comapny could felt Super Boo when he screamed his lung out.

I'm starting to think that their Ki-sensing ability has diminshed. In Saiyan arc, Goku could felt others' Ki even in Other World when Goku was running down the Serprent Road. In Freeza arc, Kuririn and other folks could felt Ki all over the planet. Even 1% of Ki could be felt in a certain distance. Planet Namek were a lot bigger than Earth.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:17 pm

DBKaiHD wrote:Goku and comapny could felt Super Boo when he scream his lung out. I'm starting to think that their Ki-sensing ability has diminshed. In Saiyan arc, Goku could felt others' Ki even in Other World when Goku was running down the Serprent Road.

Well... perhaps this is silly, but he knew where to focus his ki senses when both of those events occurred. Whereas if Vegeta was in space, no one would know exactly where he was and wouldn't be focusing on it. Remember, Goku also couldn't find New Namek's energy because he didn't know where it was.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:03 pm

I think the distance away you can sense it depends on how big it is. Or rather, it's a lot more noticeable when it's huge. I think when Gohan sensed SSJ3 Goku on Earth, Kaioshin was surprised that it was so powerful that it could be sensed all the way from their realm. It also depends on how hard you're paying attention though I guess. Goku managed to find planet Namek with Kaio's help, and their ki aren't that big.

I guess if it's not ridiculously huge or you're not paying much attention, stuff can slip by. That's an in-universe explanation, anyway.

Wojak · Post by **Wojak** » Wed Aug 05, 2009 8:10 pm

At Namek, with a population of only like a hundred people with strong ki, it would be easy to locate them all over the planet.
But at Earth, the density probably clouds over all kis, and that's why they can feel ki where there is no population, like Cell's ki or Buu's ki. We have to think of that Cell was relaxed too, not at full power.

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:08 pm

Also, we don't know if Vegeta's training routine was always the same during those three years. He might have trained in space at some point.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:54 pm

alakazam^ wrote:Also, we don't know if Vegeta's training routine was always the same during those three years. He might have trained in space at some point.

In the manga they didn't have an extra space ship lying around. But I guess it's possible... Or he could have borrowed the Ginyu Pod Goku came in.

alakazam^ · Post by **alakazam^** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:23 pm

Bussani wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:Also, we don't know if Vegeta's training routine was always the same during those three years. He might have trained in space at some point.
In the manga they didn't have an extra space ship lying around. But I guess it's possible... Or he could have borrowed the Ginyu Pod Goku came in.

Oh, that's right, they didn't have an extra one. Maybe Bulma's father could have built an improved one using the Ginyu Pod's engine and whatnot.

DragonBalllKaiHD · Post by **DragonBalllKaiHD** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:27 pm

Bussani wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:Also, we don't know if Vegeta's training routine was always the same during those three years. He might have trained in space at some point.
In the manga they didn't have an extra space ship lying around. But I guess it's possible... Or he could have borrowed the Ginyu Pod Goku came in.

Dr. Brief built the ship for cry-baby Ch-Chi to go and rescue his beloved son but Vegeta took it. 3 years of tortures and you got SSJ Vegeta.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Fri Aug 07, 2009 9:28 pm

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:
Bussani wrote:
alakazam^ wrote:Also, we don't know if Vegeta's training routine was always the same during those three years. He might have trained in space at some point.
In the manga they didn't have an extra space ship lying around. But I guess it's possible... Or he could have borrowed the Ginyu Pod Goku came in.
Dr. Brief built the ship for cry-baby Ch-Chi to go and rescue his beloved son but Vegeta took it. 3 years of tortures and you got SSJ Vegeta.

I know. It was filler.

Teclo · Post by **Teclo** » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:21 am

I think the boring explanation is that sensing ki to those capable is kind of like having the radio on in the background. You're aware that it's there but you're not really paying attention. If someone turned it off, you'd notice (equivalent to if everyone on earth suddenly died, you'd sense the sudden lack of ki), but then if someone asks "What did the DJ just say?" you'd have no idea. However, if the DJ suddenly started addressing you or said "several nukes have just been launched at [insert your country here]", you'd suddenly "sense" his words and listen to it.

However, whatever he said, if someone else was speaking to you or if you're otherwise occupied (e.g. playing a game, reading a book) you're not going to notice. All that said, just like with ki, you can bring your full attention to it if you want to. In fact, it's kind of like how I'm trying to listen to some of the podcasts as I post on the forums but I keep mentally phasing out the podcast as I focus on writing. I can only listen to it if I don't do things that also involve a thought process. All the same, if Mike suddenly screamed or started singing Fly Me To The Moon, I'd suddenly be like "WTF?", the equivalent of "Oh no, what a terrible ki I sense" or "I feel a disturbance in the force".

Kanzenshuu

Why was anyone surprised Vegeta could turn SSJ?

Why was anyone surprised Vegeta could turn SSJ?

Re: Why was anyone surprised Vegeta could turn SSJ?