Effectiveness of Zenkai

[Kroni_Hunter]

I've noticed in the anime that some of the saiyan zenkais were more effective than others. I was wondering if perhaps the way in which a saiyan heals is taken into account for the strengh increase. There are 3 different levels of healing in DBZ.

1, Natural healing, takes the longest but perhaps the most effective.

2, A healing pod, which supposedly takes about an hour (but can take longer for more serious conditions) The second most effective method.

3 Sensu bean/Dende's healing powers/Dragon's Energy Restoration
The quickest way to heal, possibly the least effective, although the magical properties in them may actually allow them to be more effective.

I could be completely wrong on this theory but I've always thought about this in the back of my head.

[Bussani]

I think the biggest zenkai in history was the one Goku got from healing in the pod. It was something like a x60 increase in strength, or more, I think.

I think they're too inconsistent to make sense of. The damage the Saiyan had to recover from must have an affect on it too, but even taking that into account, the numbers don't make a lot of sense.

[TheLastSaiyan]

I've always assumed the amount gained in power was enough to prevent damage from the attack that hurt said Saiyan previously, which may explain the inconsistency in how much a Zenkai improved.

[DMaarten]

Hmm, that does sound somewhat logical.

[Bussani]

I've always assumed the amount gained in power was enough to prevent damage from the attack that hurt said Saiyan previously, which may explain the inconsistency in how much a Zenkai improved.

That would make sense. The problem is, Goku (or rather, Goku's body) was only beaten up by Kuririn, Vegeta and Gohan. Compared to Vegeta getting a ki blast through the stomach, that doesn't seem like much, and yet Goku's zenkai was far bigger.

[Dayspring]

I've noticed in the anime that some of the saiyan zenkais were more effective than others. I was wondering if perhaps the way in which a saiyan heals is taken into account for the strengh increase. There are 3 different levels of healing in DBZ.

1, Natural healing, takes the longest but perhaps the most effective.

2, A healing pod, which supposedly takes about an hour (but can take longer for more serious conditions) The second most effective method.

3 Sensu bean/Dende's healing powers/Dragon's Energy Restoration
The quickest way to heal, possibly the least effective, although the magical properties in them may actually allow them to be more effective.

I could be completely wrong on this theory but I've always thought about this in the back of my head.

I'm very confused by your use of the words "very" and "least" when it comes to effectiveness and efficiency.

Natural healing is the worst method. Why? Because it is nothing but your body's own ability to heal. If you lose a limb, it's perma-gone. If you can't withstand a toxin (ie: poison, disease, etc), then you're dead. The whole point of medicine is to boost your healing and shorten recovery periods. If natural healing was so much better, medicine wouldn't exist.

Healing tanks are indeed the second best method: they shorten the recovery period to near-nothing, but still seem to be incapable of regenerating limbs and their status regarding disease is unknown.

Senzus are the MOST effective. They cure EVERYTHING (except the heart disease) INSTANTLY. How could this be the least effective?

As for zenkais themselves, it seems to be based on two things: how strong you are (remember that only elite saiyans should have access to them) and the severity of the wound. This would explain why Goku's crazy zenkai of doom was more powerful than Vegeta's:

-Vegeta's PL pre-zenkai was between 120,000 and 530,000 (to defeat Freeza's first form he'd need Gohan and Krillin's help). He gets a single critical wound, and zenkais to a PL between 1 million (Freeza's 2nd Form PL) and 3 million (Goku).

-Goku's PL pre-zenkai was 90,000. He gets MULTIPLE severe wounds, some of which may even be critical. Result = 3 million. Essentially it was a cumulative effect of the many wounds: he got weaker zenkais than Vegeta did, but whereas Vegeta only got one, Goku got dozens or even thousands of them.

IE: If Vegeta got 1 zenkai of "2 million points", whereas Goku got 1,000 zenkais of "2,910 points" each. Add their starting PLs and Goku would be at 3 million, vs Vegeta's "over 2 million".

[Amigo Ten]

They're just one of those things that it's futile to try to make sense of in my opinion, since how much power someone gains from it is solely driven by the needs of the plot.

[Dayspring]

They're just one of those things that it's futile to try to make sense of in my opinion, since how much power someone gains from it is solely driven by the needs of the plot.

Read my above post regarding zenkais. The story itself provides what we need to make sense of them. The only time they stop making sense is when they suddenly disappear, but an in-story answer could be the reaching of SSJ nullify that.

[Kaboom]

There's another possible explanation for why Goku's zenkais were typically so much larger than Vegeta's. At the time on Namek, Goku was being set up to become THE, not A, Super Saiyan.

[Amigo Ten]

Where was it said only elite Saiyans got the power boost from near death healing?

[caejones]

I've noticed in the anime that some of the saiyan zenkais were more effective than others. I was wondering if perhaps the way in which a saiyan heals is taken into account for the strengh increase. There are 3 different levels of healing in DBZ.

1, Natural healing, takes the longest but perhaps the most effective.

2, A healing pod, which supposedly takes about an hour (but can take longer for more serious conditions) The second most effective method.

3 Sensu bean/Dende's healing powers/Dragon's Energy Restoration
The quickest way to heal, possibly the least effective, although the magical properties in them may actually allow them to be more effective.

I could be completely wrong on this theory but I've always thought about this in the back of my head.

I'm very confused by your use of the words "very" and "least" when it comes to effectiveness and efficiency.

Natural healing is the worst method. Why? Because it is nothing but your body's own ability to heal. If you lose a limb, it's perma-gone. If you can't withstand a toxin (ie: poison, disease, etc), then you're dead. The whole point of medicine is to boost your healing and shorten recovery periods. If natural healing was so much better, medicine wouldn't exist.

Healing tanks are indeed the second best method: they shorten the recovery period to near-nothing, but still seem to be incapable of regenerating limbs and their status regarding disease is unknown.

Senzus are the MOST effective. They cure EVERYTHING (except the heart disease) INSTANTLY. How could this be the least effective?

As for zenkais themselves, it seems to be based on two things: how strong you are (remember that only elite saiyans should have access to them) and the severity of the wound. This would explain why Goku's crazy zenkai of doom was more powerful than Vegeta's:

-Vegeta's PL pre-zenkai was between 120,000 and 530,000 (to defeat Freeza's first form he'd need Gohan and Krillin's help). He gets a single critical wound, and zenkais to a PL between 1 million (Freeza's 2nd Form PL) and 3 million (Goku).

-Goku's PL pre-zenkai was 90,000. He gets MULTIPLE severe wounds, some of which may even be critical. Result = 3 million. Essentially it was a cumulative effect of the many wounds: he got weaker zenkais than Vegeta did, but whereas Vegeta only got one, Goku got dozens or even thousands of them.

IE: If Vegeta got 1 zenkai of "2 million points", whereas Goku got 1,000 zenkais of "2,910 points" each. Add their starting PLs and Goku would be at 3 million, vs Vegeta's "over 2 million".

I think you got effectiveness wrong...
Natural healing may be least effective, since medicines can handle things the body can't, but if one heals naturally, they get stronger.
If you recover from a disease via medicine, your immune system won't be much stronger. If you manage to survive and recover on your own, your immune system should be stronger as a result (I.E: XMen:TAS Cable using Wolverine to create antibodies for "the plague" (I'm guessing the Legacy Disease?)).

So yeah, Senzus instant-heal and all, but since they do that, the body shouldn't get that much stronger.

[Velasa]

I'm very confused by your use of the words "very" and "least" when it comes to effectiveness and efficiency.

I'm pretty sure he meant those terms in relationship to the zenkais, not the actual healing gained.

EDIT- mis-set things in quotes, fixed now

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

As I read through the processes--the senzu part, and the magical properties made me wonder if Future Gohan could've actually got his arm back from it. Trunks said Gohan could've gotten his arm back if the senzu plant wasn't gone.

Makes you wonder how powerful the senzu really are.

[JulieYBM]

I've noticed in the anime that some of the saiyan zenkais were more effective than others. I was wondering if perhaps the way in which a saiyan heals is taken into account for the strengh increase. There are 3 different levels of healing in DBZ.

1, Natural healing, takes the longest but perhaps the most effective.

2, A healing pod, which supposedly takes about an hour (but can take longer for more serious conditions) The second most effective method.

3 Sensu bean/Dende's healing powers/Dragon's Energy Restoration
The quickest way to heal, possibly the least effective, although the magical properties in them may actually allow them to be more effective.

I could be completely wrong on this theory but I've always thought about this in the back of my head.

I'm very confused by your use of the words "very" and "least" when it comes to effectiveness and efficiency.

Natural healing is the worst method. Why? Because it is nothing but your body's own ability to heal. If you lose a limb, it's perma-gone. If you can't withstand a toxin (ie: poison, disease, etc), then you're dead. The whole point of medicine is to boost your healing and shorten recovery periods. If natural healing was so much better, medicine wouldn't exist.

Healing tanks are indeed the second best method: they shorten the recovery period to near-nothing, but still seem to be incapable of regenerating limbs and their status regarding disease is unknown.

Senzus are the MOST effective. They cure EVERYTHING (except the heart disease) INSTANTLY. How could this be the least effective?

As for zenkais themselves, it seems to be based on two things: how strong you are (remember that only elite saiyans should have access to them) and the severity of the wound. This would explain why Goku's crazy zenkai of doom was more powerful than Vegeta's:

-Vegeta's PL pre-zenkai was between 120,000 and 530,000 (to defeat Freeza's first form he'd need Gohan and Krillin's help). He gets a single critical wound, and zenkais to a PL between 1 million (Freeza's 2nd Form PL) and 3 million (Goku).

-Goku's PL pre-zenkai was 90,000. He gets MULTIPLE severe wounds, some of which may even be critical. Result = 3 million. Essentially it was a cumulative effect of the many wounds: he got weaker zenkais than Vegeta did, but whereas Vegeta only got one, Goku got dozens or even thousands of them.

IE: If Vegeta got 1 zenkai of "2 million points", whereas Goku got 1,000 zenkais of "2,910 points" each. Add their starting PLs and Goku would be at 3 million, vs Vegeta's "over 2 million".

According to Kanzentai Vegeta had a battle power of 250,000 when fighting Freeza's first form.

[Dayspring]

Where was it said only elite Saiyans got the power boost from near death healing?

Vegeta said to Krillin when Krillin didn't want to blast him, saying Goku would be back soon anyway. In other words, Goku's first zenkai (or at least one powerful enough to be noticeable) was after healing from his wounds from Vegeta.

@caejones: Ah, I see. So the theory is that zenkais work in a fashion similar to immunity. That works with the gain boost law and the "weaker you are, the weaker your zenkai" law (since weaker people have weaker immune systems). Might also explain why they dissapear in the Super Saiyan sagas: if magic produces the weakest zenkais, then gaining a small boost dampened by magic wouldn't be enough to be noticeable when you need to tens of millions of PL.

I'm swayed. It is actually just "Saiyan healing" and not "zenkai" after all. Good work, Kroni_Hunter.

@Turlast: It would bring the arm back, but presumably any energy gained from healing over would be lost.

[Amigo Ten]

Doesn't Vegeta just say that Goku's a low class fighter and so he won't get any stronger? I don't see why that should suggest anything other than Vegeta's still going on how class like it matters.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Yeah, he says that.

I honestly think Vegeta was just being a smartass right there. He seemed eager to get Goku back up to full-strength to fight with him--and he just saw how dramatically Gohan grew after healing. It would be odd for him to not expect Goku to get any stronger.

[Dayspring]

I took it to mean low class fighter can only get so much of a boost compared to an elite. Still think it means that.

[Rocketman]

-Goku's PL pre-zenkai was 90,000. He gets MULTIPLE severe wounds, some of which may even be critical.

He didn't look that badly hurt to me. Vegeta messed him up far worse on Earth.

[rereboy]

Zenkais are a plot tool.



For a in universe explanation I guess we can say that Zenkais become larger and larger as the base power levels increase till they start to become non existing after SSJ is reached. They reach their limit and they only work on the base state of the sayans.
As for why Vegeta`s zenkai was much weaker than Goku`s, maybe it was because it was sort of self inflicted. Vegeta had to drop his ki as much as he could. Maybe that messed with the zenkai, creating a weaker zenkai.