End of Z Yamcha

[Dayspring]

I think it depends how strong one is when they reach Kaio. 5 days (or less?) under 10g, and Piccolo went from 3,500 to at least over 18,000: he knows Vegeta is stronger, but Piccolo feels he'd be a match for someone stronger-Vegeta is afraid of.

Piccolo had no idea how strong Vegeta was. He was dead before Vegeta cut loose, wasn't able to watch the fight, and doesn't see any of the Namek battles until he arrives.

Fair enough, but he did see Vegeta pre-powering up, who was stronger than Goku's double kaioken.

Yamcha spent about the same amount of time at Kaio's as Goku did, and got there a lot stronger than Goku did as well.

Prove it. This is Yamcha we're talking about here.

We see after he died that he went there to train with Kaio while waiting to be revived.

[Rocketman]

Fair enough, but he did see Vegeta pre-powering up, who was stronger than Goku's double kaioken.

But that Vegeta didn't do anything. Piccolo had to guess he was stronger than Nappa because Nappa listened to him.

We see after he died that he went there to train with Kaio while waiting to be revived.

I meant the part about getting stronger than Goku did from that training.

[Bussani]

Time isn't the only factor in training. You can't just 'train for 3 years' and automatically be this much stronger. Goku and Vegeta were about equal before using the RoSaT; Vegeta used it for 2 years, Goku used it for 10 months, and Goku came out stronger. Heck, Gohan went in weaker than them both and outdid both of them.

Yamcha trained as Kaio's. He was stronger upon arrival than Goku was when he first went there (and it took him less time to get there, because of it. This was obviously because of Kami's training on Earth), but rather than that meaning he'd end up stronger than Goku did from staying there longer, it might just mean that there's eventually nothing more Kaio could teach him, and the gains in strength and skill would slow down. Then he returned to Earth and presumably trained there alone for 3 years, which is quite a step down from somewhere with x10 Earth's gravity. As far as we know, that was the last real increase in strength he got.

I agree with Rocketman. I'd place him somewhere around Ginyu Force, tops. Maybe he'd put up a desperate fight against first form Freeza.

[Son Wukong]

This is just ridiculous. He's weak but not that weak.

What does he do that makes you think otherwise?

If he's that weak one punch from the Cell Junior would make his body implode.

[Deep Thought]

This is just ridiculous. He's weak but not that weak.

What does he do that makes you think otherwise?

If he's that weak one punch from the Cell Junior would make his body implode.

Uh, the Cell Juniors are on par with Super Vegeta. Even if Yamcha was 10,000,000, his body would explode into a gory mess if a Cell Jr. glanced at him if you want to go by that logic. Besides, Cell told the Cell Juniors to make them suffer, but not to kill them.

[Dayspring]

Fair enough, but he did see Vegeta pre-powering up, who was stronger than Goku's double kaioken.

But that Vegeta didn't do anything. Piccolo had to guess he was stronger than Nappa because Nappa listened to him.

Fair enough, but I think the fact that Kaio is worried about post-Vegeta Goku fighting Freeza, but not post-Kaio Piccolo tells us he's gone up a shitload of a lot in a short time.

We see after he died that he went there to train with Kaio while waiting to be revived.

I meant the part about getting stronger than Goku did from that training.

Oh. I said Yamcha got there stronger, not that he left stronger. By which I mean Goku ran there with a BP under 1,000, while Yamcha started off over 1,000.

[Rocketman]

Fair enough, but I think the fact that Kaio is worried about post-Vegeta Goku fighting Freeza, but not post-Kaio Piccolo tells us he's gone up a shitload of a lot in a short time.

He was worried, but Piccolo promised not to go fight Freeza.

[Son Wukong]

What does he do that makes you think otherwise?

If he's that weak one punch from the Cell Junior would make his body implode.

Uh, the Cell Juniors are on par with Super Vegeta. Even if Yamcha was 10,000,000, his body would explode into a gory mess if a Cell Jr. glanced at him if you want to go by that logic.

Which can only mean he's above 10 million!!!!!....okay, maybe he's not.
But come on people, the Ginuy force? He'd at least be able to take on the first form of Freeza at his max.

Besides, Cell told the Cell Juniors to make them suffer, but not to kill them.

Wasn't it more like ''kill them if you want to''? Sure the Cell Juniors chose to play around but Cell self didn't really care whether Goku and crew stayed alive. Had it not been for Nr.16 someone else would have died and Gohan would pop anyway.
But yeah, against Yamcha the Cell Junior was obviously holding back.

[Kaboom]

The strongest the non-Uub humans probably ever got was Ginyu-level. A BP of over a hundred thousand, maybe halfway to two hundred. And that's only because they spent like five times as long training with King Kai as Goku did; not to mention Goku's training seemed to mostly focus on learning the Kaio-Ken and Spirit Bomb. Ten's the only one I could ever see pushing or breaking a million, and that's only because of that 'alien ancestry' notion.

[caejones]

"How strong are the humans?" Topics, including this one, tend to go:

OP: How strong d'ya think <insert someone that isn't Piccolo, Gohan or a Saiyan> was after battle powers became irrelevant?
Someone: Eh, the Ginyu Force?
Someone Else: I dunno, less than that makes more sense.
Fanboy: What the hell! He ('cause noone ever asks about ChiChi... )'s not that weak! Freeza, at least!
Someone: Ur...
Someone else: Prove it.
Fanboy: The ginyu force are weak! He's at least as strong as first form Freeza, probably higher!
Someone Else: ... Prove it? I still think weaker than the Ginyu Force.
Someone: Well, based on some stuff before, during and after Kaio training, I say closer to the Ginyu Force.
Fanboy: Freeza freeza freeza freeza!

... Repeat for about five to eight pages.

Ur... I think I'll go with the lowish side of Kaboom's position.

[edit] Ur, Disclaimer: The part of "Fanboy" need not be played by a blind fanatic of said character. *Sits down to simplify ass-covering* [/edit]

[Piccolo Daimao]

So if Olibu=Paikuhan and Paikuhan>Cell and Yamcha>Olibu; does that make Yamcha>Cell?

You better hope VegettoEX doesn't come to this thread.

And no, Yamcha is nowhere near as strong as Cell, not by any stretch of the imagination. He's not even as strong as Freeza. He would be lucky to take out the Ginyu Force, or Zarbon.
The evidence: Yamcha got taken out with one blow even by Gero, and ever since then he became a complete wuss. He completely gave up and even quit training after that point, so we can only assume he got weaker than he already was.

Yamcha's character strength is all up to speculation, remember. We know how powerful Piccolo got from training on Kaio's planet in 5 or 6 days, since Nail's quote about his strength implied that Piccolo was more powerful than him (in my opinion, at least), and Yamcha spent something like 136 days on Kaio's planet. Not to mention the year before Freeza & King Cold's arrival, and the three years spent training for the battle with the Artificial Humans. I think you're giving Yamcha a lot less credit than he deserves. We don't know exactly how strong Yamcha is by the end of Z since he never got a chance to show his power. He could be as weak as you say he is. But there is no definite proof for that.

[Kaboom]

Piccolo is a Warrior-type Namekian. He grows in power much, much greater and faster than humans do.

[Rocketman]

"How strong are the humans?" Topics, including this one, tend to go:

OP: How strong d'ya think <insert someone that isn't Piccolo, Gohan or a Saiyan> was after battle powers became irrelevant?
Someone: Eh, the Ginyu Force?
Someone Else: I dunno, less than that makes more sense.
Fanboy: What the hell! He ('cause noone ever asks about ChiChi... )'s not that weak! Freeza, at least!
Someone: Ur...
Someone else: Prove it.
Fanboy: The ginyu force are weak! He's at least as strong as first form Freeza, probably higher!
Someone Else: ... Prove it? I still think weaker than the Ginyu Force.
Someone: Well, based on some stuff before, during and after Kaio training, I say closer to the Ginyu Force.
Fanboy: Freeza freeza freeza freeza!

... Repeat for about five to eight pages.

You forgot "You can't prove he's weak, therefore he must be strong!"

[Son Wukong]

Piccolo is a Warrior-type Namekian. He grows in power much, much greater and faster than humans do.

True, but Piccolo Daimao's last three points still stand though and they sum up this situation good in my opinion.

We don't know exactly how strong Yamcha is by the end of Z since he never got a chance to show his power. He could be as weak as you say he is. But there is no definite proof for that.

[Kaboom]

I know, just pointing out that Piccolo's rate of growth isn't necessarily going to be the same as that of someone not even the same species. A naturally stronger species, at that.

[caejones]

You forgot "You can't prove he's weak, therefore he must be strong!"

I guess so, but--

True, but Piccolo Daimao's last three points still stand though and they sum up this situation good in my opinion.

We don't know exactly how strong Yamcha is by the end of Z since he never got a chance to show his power. He could be as weak as you say he is. But there is no definite proof for that.

... Ah, ok, so I forgot one. ^^

And just so the "Cell Jr" thing is done: Mark. Mountain. Buu to the face!

[Bussani]

So if Olibu=Paikuhan and Paikuhan>Cell and Yamcha>Olibu; does that make Yamcha>Cell?

You better hope VegettoEX doesn't come to this thread.

And no, Yamcha is nowhere near as strong as Cell, not by any stretch of the imagination. He's not even as strong as Freeza. He would be lucky to take out the Ginyu Force, or Zarbon.
The evidence: Yamcha got taken out with one blow even by Gero, and ever since then he became a complete wuss. He completely gave up and even quit training after that point, so we can only assume he got weaker than he already was.

Yamcha's character strength is all up to speculation, remember. We know how powerful Piccolo got from training on Kaio's planet in 5 or 6 days, since Nail's quote about his strength implied that Piccolo was more powerful than him (in my opinion, at least), and Yamcha spent something like 136 days on Kaio's planet. Not to mention the year before Freeza & King Cold's arrival, and the three years spent training for the battle with the Artificial Humans. I think you're giving Yamcha a lot less credit than he deserves. We don't know exactly how strong Yamcha is by the end of Z since he never got a chance to show his power. He could be as weak as you say he is. But there is no definite proof for that.

There's no proof he was stronger, either. One opinion is as good as the other.

I feel like people just skip my posts sometimes. Training for a long time doesn't mean anything. The type of training seems to matter a lot more than the length, and just because you train for a long time doesn't mean you'll get anywhere. The only impressive training we know that Yamcha did was on Kaio's planet. After that he was on his own, on Earth. You'd have to be pretty creative to push your limits in that situation. It would be like training for ages with 100 pound weights, then being forced to only use 10 pound ones.

Reaching the level of strength Goku attained by training in x100 gravity and abusing the heck out of zenkais is pretty generous, if you ask me.

[FistOfTheSun]

I think Yamucha at his peak would be able to give Ginyu a run for his money, but I can't see him able to beat anyone beyond that.

[Dayspring]

Fair enough, but I think the fact that Kaio is worried about post-Vegeta Goku fighting Freeza, but not post-Kaio Piccolo tells us he's gone up a shitload of a lot in a short time.

He was worried, but Piccolo promised not to go fight Freeza.

That was Goku. Remember what the second wish on the Namek DB was, and how they got the idea for it.


And I don't see why people think humans have a limit: the whole series is about proving that there are no limits. Saiyans surpassed the Kaioshin, which is impossible. While I don't think someone like Yamcha made it into the hundreds of millions (ie: Freeza's 100%), hundreds of thousands is possible. Using the "they're humans" logic doesn't work: they already reached the thousands in the Saiyan arc, which isn't possible for humans.

[Cold Skin]

There is one thing I'm thinking about: Yamcha is willing to bring Goku back to safety when he has that heart disease, and doesn't he say something like he's the warrior who won't be of any use in this battle? Meaning Ten Shin Han and Krilin could be "of any use" and not him, proving he's the weakest of them with his own reply and choice?

And they all went 3 years training intensively for the cyborgs, not one of them was advantaged. Or maybe HE was advantaged if you consider he was still training during the whole Namek events and still never surpassed Krilin in the end. Then if you get back in time, that means he was already weaker than Krilin at the time, Krilin being unable to beat any of the Ginyu Commando, and possibly not even Zabon (remember he is afraid of him despite having his potential revealed).

Dodoria and Zabon are about equal power (when Zabon is untransformed). So we can conclude Yamcha wouldn't stand a chance against Freezer's henchmen.

Honestly, I can't even imagine him defeating the Saiyan Saga Vegeta, but there's never any logical proof to go that far. But at least the fact that he would be totally outclassed on Namek seems logical if you follow the chain of explanation right up, doesn't it?