Unique DBZ Related Beliefs and Opinions

Travis Touchdown · Post by **Travis Touchdown** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 2:10 am

Guys I'm sorry. ^_^ I concede that I don't know much about the Man of Steel. I was a Marvel kid growing up, and probably one of the only fans of the Scarlet Spider. However, from what little Superman comic books I've read, along with various cartoons, and movies, I'm just utterly convinced Goku would win in a fight. I doubt I could be convinced otherwise unless you sat me down and educated me on the Man of Steel, which would probably take some time.

I'm open to going to a link and reading all about him, but for the time being, let's get back on topic. ^_^

Let's see... I have a similar belief to one posted above, except I separate DBZ in 4 arcs instead of 3, although I can't decide what to name them due to seeing them all referred to in various ways throughout the years. Those 4 being the Vegeta/Saiyan Saga, Frieza/Namek Saga, Cell/Android Saga, & Majin/Buu Saga.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:32 am

Travis Touchdown wrote:Guys I'm sorry. ^_^ I concede that I don't know much about the Man of Steel. I was a Marvel kid growing up, and probably one of the only fans of the Scarlet Spider. However, from what little Superman comic books I've read, along with various cartoons, and movies, I'm just utterly convinced Goku would win in a fight. I doubt I could be convinced otherwise unless you sat me down and educated me on the Man of Steel, which would probably take some time.

Maybe it's because most of my exposure to the Scarlet Spider comes through the last arc of the Spider-man Animated Series, but I thought he was pretty kewl...

I'm open to going to a link and reading all about him, but for the time being, let's get back on topic. ^_^

I think DesireCampbell had a not-quite-detailed list of the major versions of Superman and how his abilities differed compared to Goku's... *looks*

Wellz, sorta on-topic, I was fascinated by #15 for quite a while before FUNi dubbed movie7, based on my own ideas + Pojo + some guy in my Seventh-grade Life-Science class (Ur, and I guess we were in Geography immediately after said class as well...).
So yeah. I really don't care for movie7 at all now, as pretty much the entirety of my excitement for it was destroyed once I actually saw the movie.

I think #15 would have worked better as the progenetor of the stock-troops in a short parody-thing a friend of mine did... ur... when he was calling me "Bob", in which "Gohan and Bob had to fight a bunch of Mexican Migits, and to beat them they had to flush them down the toilet".

MCDaveG · Post by **MCDaveG** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:44 am

Travis Touchdown wrote:Guys I'm sorry. ^_^ I concede that I don't know much about the Man of Steel. I was a Marvel kid growing up, and probably one of the only fans of the Scarlet Spider.

I'm too fan of Scarlet Spider, I love his design and I was playing in his sprite sheet in N64 game

mister yummy · Post by **mister yummy** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:21 am

Going around the Earth really fast causes time travel because you're moving through timezones faster than time elapses. If I move West fast enough, I'll go back one hour for every 15 degrees of longitude I travel. If I go all the way around in less than 24 hours, I've succeeded in going back a day in time. Of course, the International Date Line prevents this, but they didn't seem to have one in that particular movie.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:47 am

Bussani wrote:I always assumed the Earth rotating in reverse was an effect of time moving backwards, rather than the cause.

If I remember well, in the end, Superman does some more "laps" in the other way so that time would flow normally once again, so it really looks like the idea was to reverse the rotation of the planet twice.
Which is all kind of stupid, naturally, but hey. Comic books.

mister yummy wrote:Going around the Earth really fast causes time travel because you're moving through timezones faster than time elapses.

We do agree that's completely ridiculous, right?

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:48 pm

I live in New Zealand, therefore I am in the future~!

Olivier Hague wrote:If I remember well, in the end, Superman does some more "laps" in the other way so that time would flow normally once again, so it really looks like the idea was to reverse the rotation of the planet twice.
Which is all kind of stupid, naturally, but hey. Comic books.

Yeah, but my way at least sounds more plausible by Star Trek standards... Whatever else it appears is just there for casual viewers. <- Unique belief!

IncompetentOverlord · Post by **IncompetentOverlord** » Thu Oct 29, 2009 8:53 pm

I believe that Goku only used wanting to fight him as a coverup for getting buu reincarnated. I thought Goku might have seen something of himself in chibi-buu. Anyone else see parallels to Goku vs. Giran in the final battle?

Pitzu · Post by **Pitzu** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:33 am

rereboy wrote: I do not believe it would be possible to exist a SSJ form higher than SSJ3 because it is several times stated that it just consumes too much energy and its incredibly hard to maintain it in the mortal world. A even higher form would be just crazy.

Wouldn't have to be a higher form of SSJ.

Go SSJ3 with a tail and then look at the full moon.

Boom, You have red body hair.

rereboy · Post by **rereboy** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:41 am

Pitzu wrote:
rereboy wrote: I do not believe it would be possible to exist a SSJ form higher than SSJ3 because it is several times stated that it just consumes too much energy and its incredibly hard to maintain it in the mortal world. A even higher form would be just crazy.
Wouldn't have to be a higher form of SSJ.

Go SSJ3 with a tail and then look at the full moon.

Boom, You have red body hair.

I guess you didn`t read the rest of my post or the other posts.

I`m basically saying that I do not think it would possible for them to become stronger than SSJ3 in the manga (by achiving a higher SSJ form) but it would be possible for them, within the manga to combine their two transformations (Oozaru and SSJ) into some form and become stronger.

That form might not be the "SSJ4" that GT showed us but something else, or just the Golden Oozaru, self-aware or not.

Godo · Post by **Godo** » Sun Nov 01, 2009 4:48 pm

Not that unique, but I think that Goku was at his peak at the Buu arc, and that he had only improved by small numbers from his base strength in the Cell games.
Thus, he had to reach SSJ2 and SSJ3. Otherwise he could just have trained his ass off in those 7 years and stayed away from the risky SSJ3 and defeated Buu with SSJ2.

This leads to the conclusion that I think that most of the villains in DBGT are very weak, or that Goku's base form is occasionally some kind of temporary "Mystic" form, enabling him to access an even greater power than a SSJ4 would have.

Alas, Goku couldn't reach a base strength higher than the one he had in the Buu saga.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:03 pm

Whether unique or not, I tend to use "chi" rather than "ki, simply because "chi" is what is stated in the manga and "ki" is from the anime. I don't mind people using "ki" that much, although I would find it more accurate to use "chi".

Post by **VegettoEX** » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:12 pm

Piccolo Daimao wrote:Whether unique or not, I tend to use "chi" rather than "ki, simply because "chi" is what is stated in the manga and "ki" is from the anime. I don't mind people using "ki" that much, although I would find it more accurate to use "chi".

But... they're exactly the same thing... and it's just that one company (Viz) decided to "translate" (not really a "translation" when it's still a foreign word being "romanized" as it is spoken from an entirely different language...) what was in the original Japanese manga as "chi", rather than what the Japanese actually say... which is "ki"...

It's not really more or less "accurate" one way or the other.

Velasa · Post by **Velasa** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:17 pm

Actually on the main topic with the chi/ki debate, I've always used 'chi' to refer to a particular person's internal strength level and 'ki' to refer to that energy when it's externalized as a physical force. Basically, like the difference between magma and lava.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:28 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Whether unique or not, I tend to use "chi" rather than "ki, simply because "chi" is what is stated in the manga and "ki" is from the anime. I don't mind people using "ki" that much, although I would find it more accurate to use "chi".
But... they're exactly the same thing... and it's just that one company (Viz) decided to "translate" (not really a "translation" when it's still a foreign word being "romanized" as it is spoken from an entirely different language...) what was in the original Japanese manga as "chi", rather than what the Japanese actually say... which is "ki"...

It's not really more or less "accurate" one way or the other.

Maybe in the Dragonball sense they're the same thing, but the actualy Chinese word "Qi" (or "Chi") and the Japanese word "Ki" actually refer to two very different different outlooks on the concepts of "spirit," "mind power," and "life energy."

The most basic way to describe the differences between the two (not taking crackpot fraud examples into mind) is that Qi is generally described in a more tangible way (like the energies from oxygen, food, and sleep) while Ki is more of an intangible "something" more having to do with your mental/spiritual state and how it affects your physical state.

Seems to me that Dragonball takes on a sort of mixed approach. It's hard to explain but that is how I feel about the whole thing. So, I don't really care which word is used in relation to Dragonball.

Bussani · Post by **Bussani** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:28 pm

VegettoEX wrote:
Piccolo Daimao wrote:Whether unique or not, I tend to use "chi" rather than "ki, simply because "chi" is what is stated in the manga and "ki" is from the anime. I don't mind people using "ki" that much, although I would find it more accurate to use "chi".
But... they're exactly the same thing... and it's just that one company (Viz) decided to "translate" (not really a "translation" when it's still a foreign word being "romanized" as it is spoken from an entirely different language...) what was in the original Japanese manga as "chi", rather than what the Japanese actually say... which is "ki"...

It's not really more or less "accurate" one way or the other.

Kendamu says that there is a slight difference in the concepts behind Japanese ki and Chinese chi, if I remember right...but like you say, the name itself is the same thing, written/spoken differently.

I tend to use 'qi' when talking about the real life concept, 'ki' for Dragon Ball and other similar things, but 'chi' for something more...I dunno...Chinese? But Dragon Ball is pretty Chinesey, so...I dunno.

Edit: Oh, he explained it for me.

goku the krump dancer · Post by **goku the krump dancer** » Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:03 pm

I think that Gogeta SSJ4 is kinda like a SSJ8. Only because of his color pattern.(4+4=8

.) I mean he does look cool and everything but, why exactly is his hair red? So does that mean that his base hair color is red also?

BlueSky · Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:06 am

SSj4 apparently has some funny mechanics behind it. It's not visually the same for everyone. Goku and Vegeta's fur and eyes are different colors while in the stage. Gogeta was probably just meant to look a little different.

Piccolo Daimao · Post by **Piccolo Daimao** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:15 pm

Chi, ki...whatever. I thought chi was the word the Chinese used to explain the energy in one's body which they use in Chinese traditional martial arts. Dragon Ball was created by Akira Toriyama, who is Japanese, so I don't know if the chi described in Chinese martial arts is different to the chi (or ki) described in Japanese martial arts. Or if both martial arts are similar, and have minor differences.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:04 pm

Kendamu wrote:The most basic way to describe the differences between the two (not taking crackpot fraud examples into mind) is that Qi is generally described in a more tangible way (like the energies from oxygen, food, and sleep) while Ki is more of an intangible "something" more having to do with your mental/spiritual state and how it affects your physical state.

'Dunno, the difference really isn't that obvious to me... The character "ki" is also used for "concrete" stuff in Japanese ("seiki", kûki", etc)...

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:18 pm

Olivier Hague wrote:
Kendamu wrote:The most basic way to describe the differences between the two (not taking crackpot fraud examples into mind) is that Qi is generally described in a more tangible way (like the energies from oxygen, food, and sleep) while Ki is more of an intangible "something" more having to do with your mental/spiritual state and how it affects your physical state.
'Dunno, the difference really isn't that obvious to me... The character "ki" is also used for "concrete" stuff in Japanese ("seiki", kûki", etc)...

I don't know any "seiki" that are concrete.

正気- true character; true heart; true spirit; sanity; consciousness; soberness

生気- life; vitality; verve; vigor; vigour; animation; spirit

精気- (mind and) spirit; life energy; vitality; essence

All of these things are intangible.

As for "kuuki," I've never seen the "air" meaning used literally. More of a "Kuuki yomenai" sort of social idea.

空気- air; atmosphere

However, I do know that there are examples like "tenki" (weather - 天気) that are more concrete. For that, like I tried to convey before, I was speaking on a really basic level. If you get really deeply into it, there are some overlapping qualities. Combined with modern Western scientific studies and knowledge about body/mind unification, modern Chinese studies from guys like Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming on Qi, and with the extremely nice English explanation on the modern Japanese concept of Ki by Kenji Tokitsu, an independent realistic modern scientific conclusion on the matter would not strictly fall into line with either classical example and would be a bit of a mixture of the two.

Speaking on the most basic terms, though, Qi is based in more tangible ideas and Ki is based on more intangible ideas.