Accuracy of the Dragonbox colors?

[ect5150]

Guys, I'm late to the argument, but I can point out a few flaws in a few arguments here.

1) Some of the DVD screen shots are not being done properly. DVDs do not carry the full luma range as a computer monitor, so you need to adjust the colors on those screen shots from DVDs to adjust for this fact (I noticed a few screen shots had not had this done... I'll try to post a comparison in a minute).

I didn't know this. What is the range out of curiosity? So you mean to say that my graphics card will actually add more colors / try to add better shades of colors?

You would think they would use 0 - 255, but they use 16 - 235. So the highest white value is at 235 and the lowest is at 16 (black). The idea is to push it up to 255 and down to 0. It seems like a small difference, but I can easily tell the difference when I have the options to switch back and forth between them.

I would say the video card "adds" more color, but it should interpolate between the colors. Its also a function of the video renderer. A lot of video players use the Overlay Mixer. I usually go with NVidia cards, and the drivers on the card can correct for it (I don't know about ATI).



I'm not sure, but I think newer video renders may correct for it also. I use Media Player Classic HT and use the newer Enhanced Video Renderer (EVR Custom Pres... all others are supposed to be deprecated at this point). I thought the EVR renderer would correct it as well, but I forget right now. If you play with your settings and get it to go back and forth, you should see the difference.

[Jon Jon]

Interesting, thanks for that.

I'll look into it more in the spring when I build my new computer.

I'd assume ATI would have similar settings, but I've always found nvidia to be better for video (Just little things, really).

We'll see though, since I'm looking into a mid-range Radeon HD 5000 series card, but if I upgrade this christmas I'll be getting a radeon 4650 (nothing really competes with it in its price range, and I assume it'll be able to give my geforce 7800gtx a run for it's money in terms of both gaming and image quality).

EDIT:

I expect the image quality to be leaps and bounds better, but gaming I hope it's better, considerably at that. Ugh, I need to do research XD;

[ect5150]

Can you see the difference? Look at the whites, blacks and the subtitle text yellow (esp. at Vegeta's mouth). But the image on the left appears to be a bit more "washed" each time. Your mileage may vary though.





(Looking at it above, its not as large of a difference as I remember... although I just took these on Win7 and I remember a larger difference on WinXP, but I don't see a large reason why that should make such a difference)

[Jon Jon]

Personally, I prefer the images to the right. I say let the graphics cards do what they want ;D.

Also, it could be due to windows 7 drivers for your GPU?

[ect5150]

Personally, I prefer the images to the right. I say let the graphics cards do what they want ;D.

Also, it could be due to windows 7 drivers for your GPU?

The images on the right are corrected ones (the full range, not the limited range).

As for drivers, its possible. I'm still using the Win7 beta and haven't checked into the issue since I know how to correct it at all.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

The main argument seems to be the greenish sky color during the Goku\Vegeta battle. I'm gonna agree with DBW. I'm pretty sure the color is suppost to signify the time of day. When Roshi and the others come to pick up everyone in the plane, it's almost night. If the sky was green every time we saw it, then yes, it would be a problem.

As you can see when Raditz was talking to Goku in the earlier episodes the sky is blue. See, he's even pointing it out if you can't see it. Thanks Raditz!




I bring nothing to the table

[BrollysKin]

So did TOEI really go through all of the episodes frame by frame?

[MajinVejitaXV]

So did TOEI really go through all of the episodes frame by frame?

I think it was Pony Canyon actually, but yes. A frame-by-frame restoration was done and is documented in the Dragon Books.

-Corey

[Jon Jon]

Yes, thanks Raditz XD

[kei17]

The main argument seems to be the greenish sky color during the Goku\Vegeta battle. I'm gonna agree with DBW. I'm pretty sure the color is suppost to signify the time of day. When Roshi and the others come to pick up everyone in the plane, it's almost night. If the sky was green every time we saw it, then yes, it would be a problem.

As you can see when Raditz was talking to Goku in the earlier episodes the sky is blue. See, he's even pointing it out if you can't see it. Thanks Raditz!




I bring nothing to the table

Since the master films of these episodes are less-deteriorated, even I do not have a problem with that shot. But in a strict sense, according to the cel scans in Complete TV Anime Guide, it must've looked like this originally, though.

[DBZfan29]

The main argument seems to be the greenish sky color during the Goku\Vegeta battle. I'm gonna agree with DBW. I'm pretty sure the color is suppost to signify the time of day. When Roshi and the others come to pick up everyone in the plane, it's almost night. If the sky was green every time we saw it, then yes, it would be a problem.

As you can see when Raditz was talking to Goku in the earlier episodes the sky is blue. See, he's even pointing it out if you can't see it. Thanks Raditz!




I bring nothing to the table

Since the master films of these episodes are less-deteriorated, even I do not have a problem with that shot. But in a strict sense, according to the cel scans in Complete TV Anime Guide, it must've looked like this originally, though.

Is it bad of me to say that the picture you're showing reminds of me of the re-mastered sets and their brightness?

[jjgp1112]

Now, let's not go there. Sure, the colors are similar to the remastered sets, but it's definitely not Seasons 1 & 2 level bright.

[DBZfan29]

Now, let's not go there. Sure, the colors are similar to the remastered sets, but it's definitely not Seasons 1 & 2 level bright.

I know. That picture is just too bright to me. The Dragon Boxes all the way!

[ect5150]

The main argument seems to be the greenish sky color during the Goku\Vegeta battle. I'm gonna agree with DBW. I'm pretty sure the color is suppost to signify the time of day. When Roshi and the others come to pick up everyone in the plane, it's almost night. If the sky was green every time we saw it, then yes, it would be a problem.

I tend to agree with this as well. And I think its worth noting that both sides of the argument have merit (unlike some other arguments the boards have seen).

But my main concern is this - if the deteriorated films led to a green sky, shouldn't we see other green skies in previous episodes where the deterioration was equal to those in question (even all the way back to DB episode 1)?

And to add what was said above, as Roshi and the others search for the bodies of the dead, it does become night. You can see stars in the sky. Apparently they fly thru the night to reach some destination because at the end of episode 36 they see another sunrise.

[Tanooki Kuribo]

I thought that was a screen shot you were showing us, kei17. You just took my image and tamperd with the colors.

[jjgp1112]

I thought that was a screen shot you were showing us, kei17. You just took my image and tamperd with the colors.

You misunderstood him. He was just showing how it probably looked like when it aired.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

The main argument seems to be the greenish sky color during the Goku\Vegeta battle. I'm gonna agree with DBW. I'm pretty sure the color is suppost to signify the time of day. When Roshi and the others come to pick up everyone in the plane, it's almost night. If the sky was green every time we saw it, then yes, it would be a problem.

As you can see when Raditz was talking to Goku in the earlier episodes the sky is blue. See, he's even pointing it out if you can't see it. Thanks Raditz!




I bring nothing to the table

Since the master films of these episodes are less-deteriorated, even I do not have a problem with that shot. But in a strict sense, according to the cel scans in Complete TV Anime Guide, it must've looked like this originally, though.

Close, but not correct. Your right on the money with Raditz's skin tone but because it always changed every few scenes to episodes it was hard to tell(even in the original broadcast and Dragon Box it's apparent)

Also look at the quality of TVs back in 1989, they would never have been able to capture what Toei put on the mast film. The Dragon Box is is accurate in not only clarity but sharpness. I do agree that not all colors are correct as I to have a VHS tape of the Vegeta fight, the sky was not completely blue nor was it green. But looking at these now for a reference isn't going to solve the problem as the vhs tape would no where near the quality of the Broadcast and is even in worse condition than it was 19 years ago. The sky was indeed a bluish tint but the sun was also going down so we would be seeing change in the sky's color so it's not completely blue.

Also Animax colors are not very accurate, there 1996 masters seem pretty damn good but for this Episode the film has deteriorated.

You can use your TV to get the correct colors and I have done so with mine, and I also made it much more clearer than before.

[Daimo-Rukiri]

Ok bumping this. Since the original colors were like a orange red and the vegeta fight had blue sky I tried getting as close to as the original broadcast as possible(using my memory of the broadcast as well)

So here's my take at it.

These are from Toeis R2 singles.

[eledoremassis02]

Here's some screen shots for anyone who wants to compare I find this stuff interesting

Episode 264:






Episode 280:

[Metalwario64]

Was the 4-year bump really necessary?