Schemmel: "The Ocean Group is doing their own dub"

[bkev]

Wonder if this could explain the severity of the edits... I understand the Westwood dub also contained more edits than the FUNi TV one produced for Cartoon Network in the US?

[Dayspring]

So what's with the rumor that Ocean handled the video editing for the TV broadcast versions? Were they indeed credited for this (on the TV broadcast version; please don't check your DVD's credits)?

Its interesting that Funimation are still working with Ocean if that is the case, it may also explain how Sean has seen the Ocean Kai dub.

Guy was just a bit confused, just funny how he went on about changed music and scripts like he actually previewed some material.

Ocean Productions

Yeah, doesn't look like Schemmel knew jack about shit. I started a new thread over here regardng Ocean's involvent: http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopi ... 16&t=13412

[Dayspring]

Wonder if this could explain the severity of the edits... I understand the Westwood dub also contained more edits than the FUNi TV one produced for Cartoon Network in the US?

It does and doesn't. FUNi indicated which edits to be made (or at least a clear set of rules to follow regarding edits) and simply outsourced the editing process rather than use an in-house editor. So Ocean either had very little say in what was to be changed, if any at all. They just did what they were told to.

[Greenman]

Exactly. This is the ''dub version'' Ocean was rumored to be making, so that means nothing is currently being made by them, be it for Canadian TV or otherwise.

That's the part that confuses me. How do we know this is the dub version Ocean was rumored to be making? Schemmel mentioned replaced music (and possibly other stuff I cant remember).

[dagame10k]

Interesting that they'd outsource the TV editing to another company. But does Ocean editing the TV version of FUNimation's dub really mean for sure that there won't be an Ocean dub on Canadian TV?

No, but it does mean that no such one exists right now, at least.

Exactly. This is the ''dub version'' Ocean was rumored to be making, so that means nothing is currently being made by them, be it for Canadian TV or otherwise.

However, the odds of Canadian TV picking this version of Kai up have drastically increased, since it means the more profitable ''original FUNimation version'' of Kai is now at least partly Cancon.

Unfotunately, Anime on Canadian TV pretty much died when YTV got rid of Bionix, Teletoon or any other TV station seem interested.

Exactly. This is the ''dub version'' Ocean was rumored to be making, so that means nothing is currently being made by them, be it for Canadian TV or otherwise.

That's the part that confuses me. How do we know this is the dub version Ocean was rumored to be making? Schemmel mentioned replaced music (and possibly other stuff I cant remember).

Quoted from the previous thread

Check under the wall post made by Subzero Ice. Schemmel left these comments:

Seán Schemmel Here is why the Ocean group dub will suck. And it has nothing to do with the actors as I have enormous respect for all of them. As far as I know, the Ocean group dub is going to have this really shitty music (some of which I have heard) and a whole host of added sound effects such as "doinks" and "boinks" and even in one scene, where Bulma ... See Moresimply turns her head in a conversation you hear a "whoosh" sound ala a bad martial arts movie. We are giving you the purest DBZ experience possible, and if you don't like that, then you don't like DBZ.

Seán Schemmel yep. same time as ours. it's all about money people. even for Toei...

I'm...a wee bit perplexed by what this means. O.o

Schemmel heard Ocean and thought they were dubbing it, what he didn't know was they were editing his very own material, thought Ocean was still only a recording studio company.

[penguintruth]

What about that "really shitty music"? Is he thinking of Yamamoto's score? That would be pretty funny, given his comments on the newest video with him and Sabat about how great it is.

[bkev]

He did say "Canadian music" and had previously praised Yamamoto's work, so I doubt that's the case. Unless he was being told to praise it, which goes against all his more recent comments.

[Greenman]

Schemmel heard Ocean and thought they were dubbing it, what he didn't know was they were editing his very own material, thought Ocean was still only a recording studio company.

But he says he's heard the Ocean dub. The "really shitty music" and added sound effects doesn't jive with the FUNi TV broadcast.

[penguintruth]

Is he just making up stories or was there some sort of Ocean dub that was scrapped?

[Super Sayian Prime]

It would be pretty funny if by "crappy music" he meant Vic's opening.

[Dayspring]

The themes were redone in English, weren't they? That would be the "shitty music" in question.

@dbgame10k: Anime aimed at younger audiences is seeing a rebirth thanks to the success of the new Beyblade series. Basically if it isn't handled by Nelvana, Canadian broadcasters don't give a damn (especially Corus-owned stations like YTV and Teletoon, since they also own Nelvana), while Nelvana only handles children's anime. The only exceptions are certain majorly popular 4Kids anime on YTV like Pokemon.

[Metalwario64]

The themes were redone in English, weren't they? That would be the "shitty music" in question.

I thought it was "shitty Canadian music".

[Super Sayian Prime]

If someone thinks Blue Water is the pits, I wonder what they think of Odex...

[Super Sayian Prime]

Why does a company located in Fort Worth, Texas hire a Vancouver based studio for video editing? It's not like the Canadian dollar is at a really low point either.

In that credit sequence, outside of Ocean Productions, Diana Gage, and Dennis Hrehoriac, I don't actually see any leads resulting back to Canada. Heck, the studio credited for the video post production is located in New York if my Google skills aren't failing me. Something isn't right here.

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

It's interesting to see Ocean Group in the credits however there is one problem with the video. Kai's ending theme song and credits are never shown on Nicktoons. Nicktoons shows the next episode preview cuts to commercial and then Avatar starts. Believe me, I've been watching for four days now at not once have I seen the ending credits. Can someone with the Blu-ray/DVD home release confirm that Ocean is credited in the ending credits?

[Super Sayian Prime]

It's interesting to see Ocean Group in the credits however there is one problem with the video. Kai's ending theme song and credits are never shown on Nicktoons. Nicktoons shows the next episode preview cuts to commercial and then Avatar starts. Believe me, I've been watching for four days now at not once have I seen the ending credits. Can someone with the Blu-ray/DVD home release confirm that Ocean is credited in the ending credits?

It's from either the late night broadcasts, or the streams on Nicktoon's website. They aren't credited on the home releases IIRC, which would make sense, as the home releases wouldn't need editing, being "uncut" and all...

[penguintruth]

If someone thinks Blue Water is the pits, I wonder what they think of Odex...

Not even on people's radar enough to be considered bad. Like AnimEigo dubs. They're terrible, but nobody notices, because nobody even buys AnimEigo products anymore.

[Super Sayian Prime]

If someone thinks Blue Water is the pits, I wonder what they think of Odex...

Not even on people's radar enough to be considered bad. Like AnimEigo dubs. They're terrible, but nobody notices, because nobody even buys AnimEigo products anymore.

The only really good thing to come out of Geneon's demise was that those Odex dubs would go back into obscurity.

And that a bunch of series would be released at sub $200 price points for complete collections.

[RazorX]

Ocean Productions being credited for video post production in the TV broadcast version has brought about discussions in various topics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9lI82zt5JM

At around 0.18 you can see Ocean Productions Inc being credited for the video editing and post production. This has increased the chances of an Ocean dub of Kai. Why? Allow me to explain. This will be a bit lengthy which is why I started this topic:

First of all, think back to Dragon Ball Z. From the Android episodes onwards, there have been 2 dubs, one by The Ocean Group (original voice actors from the Saiyan and Namek episodes) and the other by Funimation Productions. (With their in house cast, taking over from the Ginyu episodes)

Now the video for the episodes was the same for both versions. It was assumed that Funimation did the video editing for the TV broadcasts of Dragon Ball Z and that video was used for the Ocean Group dub, which was recorded at Westwood Studios, Airwaves studios and had its post production done at Ocean Studios.

We may assume that Ocean edited those DBZ episodes and Funimation used them, but there's a slight problem with this theory. In the last few episodes of Z, Ocean's dub did not use the same video as the Funimation dub, they got video for those episodes from AB Groupe. (European license holders of the Dragon Ball franchise who are believed to have hired Ocean for the DBZ Android-Buu episodes) The most likely reason was that those episodes were not done in time and Ocean didnt want to wait, so if Ocean really did the video editing for the TV episodes of DBZ, why would they have got AB's videos for those final few episodes?

Now, the fact that Funimation's TV version of Kai has credited Ocean for the video post production raises some questions, one of which being, why would Funimation go all the way to Canada just for the video post production? Surely its cost effective to use a local company, plus Ocean are likely to be more expensive even without all the travel costs (And Funimation split with Ocean originally to avoid those travel costs as well as the expensive talent of the Ocean actors)

If Funimation did the video editing for the DBZ episodes themselves, they could've done so again with Kai.

So here's one explanation. The Ocean Group, now known as Ocean Productions, are indeed producing their own dub of Dragon Ball Kai for TV broadcast. And as we know, they have to edit the video in order to meet the requirements of TV stations wanting to aim the show at a certain market. So Ocean have to do editing and video post production either way you look at it. Funimation must've seen this and thought, well if Ocean are editing the episodes, why don't we use their video instead of going through the whole editing and post production process ourselves, and pay Ocean for using their video. Now you must be thinking that I mentioned earlier that Ocean are likely to be more expensive than a local company even excluding the travel costs, but lets look at it from Ocean's perspective.

Ocean have to go through the recording, editing and post production process for whoever may have hired them to produce a dub of Kai. They have (or will have) the finished product sitting there with them and Funimation comes along. Funimation and Nicktoons are going to broadcast that exact same show, so Funimation negotiate a deal with Ocean which is likely to be cheaper than if Ocean had to edit the episodes from scratch. So for Ocean, its basically money for doing very little extra, bring the costs, and thus the price, down to a level which is probably cheaper than if Funimation edited the video themselves or hired a local company to do it. You dont get these situations every day (2 companies producing different dubs of the exact same show at the same time), so when they arise, you take advantage of it.

Ocean gets additional revenue for a product they had to produce for someone else, Funimation gets a finished product cheaper due to the product already being pretty much fit for broadcast, it works out for both of them.

Of course, they may have had to get the permission of whoever are hiring Ocean to produce a dub of Kai to use it (Most likely AB Groupe or perhaps even Toei Animation themselves)

Now, Sean Schemmel, Funi's voice actor for Goku, mentioned the Ocean dub and some elements of it. Some people are saying that Sean may have been talking about the TV broadcast of the Funimation dub which Ocean edited, but this doesnt make sense. Aside from the points already mentioned above, I'll explain why.

Sean mentions replaced music, and his dislike for it. The broadcast version of Funi's Kai dub uses the original Japanese music, so Sean cant have been referring to the Funi TV version. Some people suggest Sean was talking about Vic's opening, but thats also very unlikely. Sean says "shitty" and I dont think he'd openly describe a fellow voice actor's opening song as shitty before it was even shown, even if he hates it. Plus he specifically mentions "Canadian" music. The music Ocean used for their Westwood Studios DBZ dub could be classed as "Canadian" because it was made in Canada. Sean stated that he has heard the music and he said that Ocean are dubbing the episodes the same time as Funimation.

Another thing, Sean also mentions that the Ocean dub of Kai has additional sound effects, he specifies "doins" and "boings" and a "whoosh" as Bulma walks past or turns her heard. Clearly those added sound effects are not in either of Funi's dubs. And those of us who have seen the Westwood Ocean dub, know that it has added sound effects, quite a lot of them actually. So that fits in with a possible Ocean dub like a glove.

So, in my view, the fact that Ocean Productions are credited for the video post production actually increases the likelihood of an Ocean dub of Dragon Ball Kai with the Vancouver voice cast for stated reasons. The fact that Ocean did the editing and post production of the Kai episodes for Funimation may explain how Sean Schemmel was able to sample some of Ocean's own dub of Kai.

Edit: Sean also mentions that his criticisms of the Ocean dub have nothing to do with its cast, whom he has great respect for. Why would he go out of his way to clarify that if the dub was the Funi dub and not Ocean dub?

Edit Edit: Sean also says its all about the money, even for Toei. If Toei can get license money for 2 versions of the same language for their DB Kai Anime, thats pretty good for them, that itself may have been one of the attractions of having 2 English DBZ dubs as well.

Edit Edit Edit: I noticed that the TV broadcasts of Funi's dub of Kai are brighter more saturated than their DVD/Blu Ray releases. If Funimation had asked Ocean to edit the video from scratch, why would they have brightened it up? This also suggests that Funi simply used Ocean's video for TV broadcast and used their own video for their DVD/Blu Ray releases. (Yeah the points keep coming once you think about it)

Edit Edit Edit Edit: (I know, another point, but its worth it) Another factor to consider is the fact that Dennis Hrehoriac is credited as the producer. Dennis Hrehoriac was the producer for the Blue Water dub of Dragon Ball (He may have been a producer for the Ocean DBZ dub but Ocean's ending only credited the English musical score composers and some of the Japanese staff so we wernt given the producer credits for them) Why would Dennis Hrehoriac, someone who worked on Blue Water Dragon Ball, be credited as producer of all posts? Maybe he was/is the producer for the Ocean dub of Kai.....

[Dayspring]

Why does a company located in Fort Worth, Texas hire a Vancouver based studio for video editing? It's not like the Canadian dollar is at a really low point either.

In that credit sequence, outside of Ocean Productions, Diana Gage, and Dennis Hrehoriac, I don't actually see any leads resulting back to Canada. Heck, the studio credited for the video post production is located in New York if my Google skills aren't failing me. Something isn't right here.

Outsourcing isn't just done to take advantage of another country's weaker economy. Plus it's a long-term marketability thing. With a Canadian company being involved, their odds of being able to sell it to Canadian broadcasters skyrockets. So it's just a matter of going outside the company for the editing, whereas choosing the Canadian company opens more doors for them.

I also find it odd that Sean Schemmel would have access to the final draft of a competitor's dub. It doesn't make sense that they would plug it directly to him. Plus why the hell would Schemmel's higher ups make him stop talking smack about it?