Dragonball Kai (FUNimation English) Dub: General Discussion

[penguintruth]

I don't see a lack of explanations. I just see reiterations of the same debates that nobody gains any ground on.

But this is a thread for discussion and debate, so what's the problem with that? That's pretty much the entire point of having a forum, to discuss, not to have everyone post just how great everything is all the time. That's sucking up. If you want to do that, Sean Schemmel has a Facebook fan club full of suck-ups, apparently.

Just because some of you can't handle discussions, doesn't mean we should all stop having them. You don't like the debate? Stay out of it. Otherwise, it's like going into a hospital and complaining about all the sick people.

[DB_Fan1991]

Look guys, all I've been hearing as of recently in this thread is:


Forum poster A: X actor is a good Goku, he captures all sides of his personality well.

Forum poster B: Nuh uh, X actor sucks as Goku and Y actor is ten times as better than X actor can ever hope to be.

Forum poster A: Care to explain why you think Y is a better Goku?

Forum poster B: He just is.

Forum poster A: That's not an explanation.

Forum poster B: Your mother.


I'm no mod, but it's really childish and needs to stop. We're going round in circles and I'm seriously getting dizzy.

Thank you, I'm glad I wasn't the only one getting dizzy.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

Look guys, all I've been hearing as of recently in this thread is:


Forum poster A: X actor is a good Goku, he captures all sides of his personality well.

Forum poster B: Nuh uh, X actor sucks as Goku and Y actor is ten times as better than X actor can ever hope to be.

Forum poster A: Care to explain why you think Y is a better Goku?

Forum poster B: He just is.

Forum poster A: That's not an explanation.

Forum poster B: Your mother.


I'm no mod, but it's really childish and needs to stop. We're going round in circles and I'm seriously getting dizzy.

Heh, that's this place for ya. Don't you just love it? Same thing over and over.

[Ultimate_DB_Fan]

f the DBZ dub to hear Gokuh say "Ain't"?

Probably not, but does him not saying that REALLY irk you...? Jeez...

[DB_Fan1991]

Look guys, all I've been hearing as of recently in this thread is:


Forum poster A: X actor is a good Goku, he captures all sides of his personality well.

Forum poster B: Nuh uh, X actor sucks as Goku and Y actor is ten times as better than X actor can ever hope to be.

Forum poster A: Care to explain why you think Y is a better Goku?

Forum poster B: He just is.

Forum poster A: That's not an explanation.

Forum poster B: Your mother.


I'm no mod, but it's really childish and needs to stop. We're going round in circles and I'm seriously getting dizzy.

Heh, that's this place for ya. Don't you just love it? Same thing over and over.

It's quite irritating at times actually, and there is too much bickering over the dub even though I admit that the DBZ dub was bad.

I don't see a lack of explanations. I just see reiterations of the same debates that nobody gains any ground on.

But this is a thread for discussion and debate, so what's the problem with that? That's pretty much the entire point of having a forum, to discuss, not to have everyone post just how great everything is all the time. That's sucking up. If you want to do that, Sean Schemmel has a Facebook fan club full of suck-ups, apparently.

Just because some of you can't handle discussions, doesn't mean we should all stop having them. You don't like the debate? Stay out of it. Otherwise, it's like going into a hospital and complaining about all the sick people.

I'm not trying to start a fight, but here's my opinion. As if you're one to talk. Most of the fights in these threads happen because you say something to piss off someone else just in the intention of pissing someone off.

Yes we understand you hate Sean Schemmel in everything he does (except Onsokomaru). Still saying Scott McNeil is the better Piccolo in English even though Sabat improved in Kai (granted he did great back in the old days, but still Sabat is Piccolo to me even though McNeil was great in fact the only voice I could tolerate in the Ocean dub.), yeah that's going to start a fight for sure as everyone else thinks he has improved.

Telling me that 90% of the dub cast sucks. Maybe you need to get off the crazy train (props to the great Ozzy Osbourne.) and open your ears a little bit as it seems you're not watching the same dub I am. I am one dub fan you do not want to piss off, and no I'm not a "Hardcore Faulconer/Menza fan" at all I am a fan of the dub with Japanese music track. It's combining the best part of the Japanese version (the music) and the best part of the English version (the voices). I will admit to you that the DBZ dub was not all that great, but I still enjoyed it for the story you know the one thing that never changes in foreign translations. Some dub fans may let it slide, but I don't.

Not everyone on Sean's Facebook fan club are suck-ups. We simply enjoy his work nothing more, nothing less. Another thing that really pisses me off is when you say the Japanese version is better and state that like it is a fact granted the Japanese version is the original sometimes the original is not always better. How would you like it if Darth Vader was voiced by Nozawa in the Japanese dub of Star Wars? I know I wouldn't. That's how I feel about her Goku I don't think that the protector of the world with huge muscles should have the voice of a woman it sounds unnatural. Honestly Toei should have given Goku a male voice in the 23rd Tenka-Ichi saga of the original Dragon Ball. Every single other dub corrected this mistake by giving him a male voice in that saga however I think the French dub continued using a woman for Goku until the beginning of DBZ. I would call you an elitist snob, but I'm not as I am not that mean or cold hearted of a person to do that. I will leave you with this, could you please stop the mindless bickering with other people as it's giving me and everyone else a headache. Discussion is fine, and I'm all for it, but when it turns into a Nozawa VS Corlett VS Kelamis VS Schemmel argument it gets out of hand and unnecessary.

Thank you for taking the time to read this. This is not meant to start any fights I'm just a little annoyed by the mindless bickering.

[penguintruth]

The only reason why you think I'm saying things just to piss people off is because you disagree with my opinions. I have been thorough, I have been forthcoming, I have been entirely consistent with my opinions. I have praised the dub where I thought it has improved (and I have done this quite a few times). I have explained throughly, with great effort, and numerous times, why I prefer one voice to another.

The problem is that you're doing exactly what I'm being accused of, being unable to handle differing opinions. You also seem to be speaking for "everyone" when it's really a few people who disagree with me. I have no doubt that in some opinions I am in the minority, but it's not to the degree you figure.

As for your opinion of Nozawa's Goku, it's patently absurd. The reason why I would be upset if Nozawa voiced Darth Vader is because Darth Vader is a dark, evil character who is supposed to sound intimidating. But you see, you're arguing my point for me, because Son Goku is a hillbilly manchild and Nozawa's Goku doesn't just sound right as far as tone of voice, but the subtleties in her performance captures his way of life, his personality and education (or lack thereof). I don't know what kind of character you think Goku is, but Schemmel's Goku sure isn't the character in Dragon Ball Z.

He sounds unnatural with Nozawa's voice? That's the point. Goku is entirely about personality trumping physicality. That's the entire point of the character of Goku, a character whose personality trumps expectations. He isn't the type of person you would expect to be a martial artist or a defender of the world, because when you meet him, he's kind of a dense guy who just enjoys a good fight now and then. If you think Schemmel's voice is more appropriate for that than Nozawa's, then we're on entirely different wavelengths.

And you know, yes, of course they could have gone with a male voice actor for Goku when he was an adult. But they already had a perfect Goku voice that still fit the personality and the style of Goku perfectly. Certainly better than some gravelly, stiff superhero voice, that's for sure.

You keep thinking I'm some simple-minded imbecile who can't defend his opinions. I do so constantly, but you and some others have so conveniently chosen to ignore that because it doesn't fit into your little preconcieved notion of me as a troll. And I'm not playing the victim, because I don't really care. It amuses me. You're only making yourself look silly by underestimating me.

You can't stand the bickering? Stay out of the thread. Nobody's forcing you to post in the discussion. Discussions breed debate. If you dislike the debate, go to another thread, or bring up something different. Nobody's putting a gun to your head, demanding you engage me in argument. There are plenty of other discussions going on here.

[DB_Fan1991]

The only reason why you think I'm saying things just to piss people off is because you disagree with my opinions. I have been through, I have been forthcoming, I have been entirely consistent with my opinions. I have praised the dub where I thought it has improved (and I have done this quite a few times). I have explained throughly, with great effort, and numerous times, why I prefer one voice to another.

The problem is that you're doing exactly what I'm being accused of, being unable to handle differing opinions. You also seem to be speaking for "everyone" when it's really a few people who disagree with me. I have no doubt that in some opinions I am in the minority, but it's not to the degree you figure.

As for your opinion of Nozawa's Goku, it's patently absurd. The reason why I would be upset if Nozawa voiced Dearth Vader is because Darth Vader is a dark, evil character who is supposed to sound intimidating. But you see, you're arguing my point for me, because Son Goku is a hillbilly manchild and Nozawa's Goku doesn't just sound right as far as tone of voice, but the subtleties in her performance captures his way of life, his personality and education (or lack thereof). I don't know what kind of character you think Goku is, but Schemmel's Goku sure isn't the character in Dragon Ball Z.

He sounds unnatural with Nozawa's voice? That's the point. Goku is entirely about personality trumping physicality. That's the entire point of the character of Goku, a character whose personality trumps expectations. He isn't the type of person you would expect to be a martial artist or a defender of the world, because when you meet him, he's kind of a dense guy who just enjoys a good fight now and then. If you think Schemmel's voice is more appropriate for that than Nozawa's, then we're on entirely different wavelengths.

And you know, yes, of course they could have gone with a male voice actor for Goku when he was an adult. But they already had a perfect Goku voice that still fit the personality of Goku perfectly. Certainly better than some gravelly, stiff superhero voice, that's for sure.

You keep thinking I'm some simple-minded imbecile who can't defend his opinions. I do so constantly, but you and others have so conveniently chosen to ignore that because it doesn't fit into your little preconcieved notion of me as a troll. And I'm not playing the victim, because I don't really care. It amuses me. You're only making yourself look silly by underestimating me.

You can't stand the bickering? Stay out of the thread. Nobody's forcing you to post in the discussion. Discussions breed debate. If you dislike the debate, go to another thread, or bring up something different. Nobody's putting a gun to your head, demanding you engage me in argument.

I can handle different opinions very well, but I think this mindless bickering was getting out of hand. Believe me I had to go through a lot in High School because of other people's different opinions. It only looked like you were pissing people off you may not have I don't know, but the way you say things do piss people off just saying. I am not speaking for everyone I am only speaking from what I have observed in this and other threads.

To be fair in Kai I've heard Schemmel say Ain't, and in episode 17 he said that's mah boy in a very hick way. Yes Schemmel didn't sound hick in the original FUNi in-house dubs I will give you that. Also to be fair Schemmel was the first Goku I heard, and with me I associate a character with the voice I first hear, so in Goku's case it's Schemmel all the way now had I heard Nozawa first my opinion might be different. Also I understand what you mean by not expecting Goku to be a martial artist or defender of the world as when I first saw Dragon Ball (which was almost 2 years ago by the way) I didn't know the story yet, and thought Goku was just some adorable little kid.

At least you agree with me about Nozawa sounding wrong as Darth Vader. I also appreciate the fact that you admit that Toei could have went with a male seiyuu for Adult Goku, but they didn't, and so we have to accept Nozawa in the role.

The only reason I think you're a simple-minded imbecile that can't defend his opinions as you say is because that's what it looks like to me, but if you say that you're not then I believe you. I admit I did go a little out of hand a bit, so my apologies for that.

I am responding to you in a very civil manner, I am not bickering just giving my honest thoughts. I never even intended to start an argument in the first place as I stated in my previous response, and I never called you a troll. What I said may have made me seem like I hate the Japanese version, but that's not the case. It's not what I would default to, but I do respect the fact that it was made there, and respects anyone who has their opinions on it from this day forward, so thank you penguintruth for showing me your perspective on this. Now I know what you're talking about, and I respect your opinions from this day forward.

[ohaimynameiserik]

Of course Sean Schemmel's fan club is full of people who like his work.

It's a damned fan club.

Also, yes, we've realized that penguintruth is only here to be an ass to anyone who has a positive opinion of the dub voice actors. Pointing it out won't change it, but instead start back and forth multiple paragraph long pointless posts. (See above)

[penguintruth]

I am responding to you in a very civil manner, I am not bickering just giving my honest thoughts. I never even intended to start an argument in the first place as I stated in my previous response, and I never called you a troll. What I said may have made me seem like I hate the Japanese version, but that's not the case. It's not what I would default to, but I do respect the fact that it was made there, and respects anyone who has their opinions on it from this day forward, so thank you penguintruth for showing me your perspective on this. Now I know what you're talking about, and I respect your opinions from this day forward.

Very well. I suppose if it comes down to a simple, fundamental difference of opinion, I can probably learn to respect your opinions, too.

[Gaffer Tape]

Also, yes, we've realized that penguintruth is only here to be an ass to anyone who has a positive opinion of the dub voice actors.

Hmm. I never realized that. To me he's a somewhat ascerbic guy with strong (but well-backed up) viewpoints whose mere voice of dissent is enough to get certain people's panties in a wad. I don't think he's an ass in the least.

[DB_Fan1991]

I am responding to you in a very civil manner, I am not bickering just giving my honest thoughts. I never even intended to start an argument in the first place as I stated in my previous response, and I never called you a troll. What I said may have made me seem like I hate the Japanese version, but that's not the case. It's not what I would default to, but I do respect the fact that it was made there, and respects anyone who has their opinions on it from this day forward, so thank you penguintruth for showing me your perspective on this. Now I know what you're talking about, and I respect your opinions from this day forward.

Very well. I suppose if it comes down to a simple, fundamental difference of opinion, I can probably learn to respect your opinions, too.

Thank you I'm glad this misunderstanding on my part has been resolved.

Also, yes, we've realized that penguintruth is only here to be an ass to anyone who has a positive opinion of the dub voice actors.

Hmm. I never realized that. To me he's a somewhat ascerbic guy with strong (but well-backed up) viewpoints whose mere voice of dissent is enough to get certain people's panties in a wad. I don't think he's an ass in the least.

Exactly I have to agree. He has very good opinions it's just that I used to think he was an asshole just by "badmouthing" the dub, but that's not the case he just favors the Japanese version, and that's perfectly fine. He gives the dub credit where it's due especially for Kai I mean look at his review of the first 13 in his signature to see what I mean.

[Big Momma]

Is it okay that I love both Kelamis AND Schemmel?

[DB_Fan1991]

Is it okay that I love both Kelamis AND Schemmel?

I see no problem with that. Thank you for your opinion.

[ohaimynameiserik]

Well I should probably point out that my post was slightly exaggerated. Though I can't really expect that to take place through text alone. I know our good friend penguintruth is not just a generic troll.

At the same time though, I feel that if you're being a jerk I won't take your opinion too seriously, no matter how backed up you may think it is.

Though I fail to see how "X is far superior to Y. Y is just absolutely cringeworthy and terrible." could be considered "backed up".

Let's just be done with this before it goes off topic any further.

Is it okay that I love both Kelamis AND Schemmel?

Absolutely. I like them both as well.

[MR.Mark]

Just the other day I was having a discussion with my wife about the whole how Goku should be portrayed in English. Her feelings are, when she hears Nozawa's adult Goku , she hears a characters voice above all else. She says she doesn't hear a woman at all, or a boy, sure it's high pitched , but it can also sound incredibly masculine, especially when Son is calm. Basically she hears Goku, the character , it just is what it is , I fully agree with that assessment.

Sean's Goku can sound incredibly high pitch at times, then gets macho when serious stuff goes down, kinda sounds like how Nozawa portrays the character to me. I think the biggest thing going against Sean are the writers that didn't want to bother to properly translate how Son should speak, and certain vocal direction.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with Goku sounding like a man in an English adaption, Goku is a man at this point in the story. The situation outside of Japan with Son Goku is different, completely different circumstances. Nowzawa came along and captured Goku so well she touched peoples hearts and through her talents she managed to age and endure playing the character making Son Goku an icon, and I frankly wouldn't have it any other way. Like my wife says, it's not Nozawa, it's Goku, it's not a woman doing the voice that I hear, but the high pitched voice of Son Goku. It is what it is.

That kind or circumstance should not be expected to be replicated in an English dub. Most American people weren't even introduced to the character when he was a child, so the English dub had the luxury to make the main focus of adult Son Goku's character come though in performance and dialogue. Unfortunately to this day he has not been 100% nailed, but it has little to nothing to do with the fact that Goku never had a high pitch to the point of cartoonyness voice.

Which brings me to the subject of Masakox again, when Masako Nozawa can make a man sound like a wimp, you're turning the happy high pitch Goku dial up far too much. I'm sorry, but a lot of times Masakox's Goku sounds high pitch in a wussy prepubescent way. You haven't been paying much attention to Nozawa's performance if you honestly think she sounds like that. Want a recent example? look no further than Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DI7evOlG1ZE

Go to 4:24 where Goku raises his ki in front of Tarble, does that sound like some high pitch happy voice to you? That was just plain intimidating, in fact it's one of my favorite "power up" performances Nowzawa has done. I just can't picture Masakox emulating sounds like that, sorry. Yes, there's a limit to how deep Goku can go before it's wrong (come magic cloud), but there's the other extreme when he's portrayed in English too.

If you really wanted to channel Nozawa into an English adult Goku without dialing up the pitch to young boy levels. Just find a guy with youthful but masculine voice, with a slight gentle boyish rasp. Yes you heard me, I'm suggesting Adult Goku should sound ever so slightly raspy. Every English Goku, with the exception of Kirby Marrow, (who sucked as Goku anyway) have all sounded like versions of Goku that originated from Ian Corlet, only with different variation on pitches. Even Masakox has that Ian sound in his Goku. I know it's Ironic that the very thing I complain about in a lot of FUNI voices, raspyness, is what I'm suggesting an English adult Goku to have. But I honestly hear it when I think of a Nozawa-BUT male Goku voice in English. A gentle boyish ruggedness to go along with his simple dialect and bad manners. I guess I just think outside the box, more on the performance side of things.

[linkdude20002001]

Probably not, but does him not saying that REALLY irk you...? Jeez...

I was only using ain't as an example. I don't care about that word in particular, but Gokuh should speak like Gokuh: like a hick. Chichi, the Ox Demon-King, and especially Yajirove should sound even more like hicks than Gokuh. And Gohan should sound polite and educated. It's funny to watch in Japanese, 'cause you've got an adult-like son, and a child-like father.

[jjgp1112]

I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who sees how similar Schemmel is to Ian Corlett. Schemmel actually sounds like a higher pitched version of Corlett, and a lot of Corlett's little nuances remind EXACTLY of Schemmel, like the way he says "huh?" and other little things.

[penguintruth]

I've always felt like Schemmel's Goku was similar to Corlett's. I just didn't think of it as necessarily a positive thing, being more of a Kelamis guy. Actually, some parts of his Kai performance come across to me as a better version of Corlett's Goku.

(Maybe I should change that part of my signature.)

[MR.Mark]

Well, ofcourse Seans Goku is similar to Corlett's, he never would of been hired back in the day otherwise. FUNI were after sound-a-likes and Sean has that quality to his voice, he always had it. It was the same reason Peter was hired to take over for Ian. I hope one day they think outside the box and rethink Goku in English and we can finally get a version that is not a variation of some other persons voice.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Is it okay that I love both Kelamis AND Schemmel?

Of course it is, but I personally don't like Kelamis' Goku. Yes, his Goku (and MasakoX's, for that matter) sound goofy and high pitched. They get that part right, but there's many other sides of Goku's personally that they frankly don't get at all.