My tribute to DBZ

[tarsonis]

Yeah I agree with you. For example on IMDb there was some guy reviewing DBZ and said it sucks, he said he´d watched about 10 minutes and (get this:) HE DIDN´T GET THE PLOT!!! Ummm... OFCOURSE he doesn´t get the friggin plot!!

That is sad..sad and disheartening. But hey, the imdb boards are filled with whiny egomaniacs, so it's to be expected.

[Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan]

Yeah I agree with you. For example on IMDb there was some guy reviewing DBZ and said it sucks, he said he´d watched about 10 minutes and (get this:) HE DIDN´T GET THE PLOT!!! Ummm... OFCOURSE he doesn´t get the friggin plot!!

That is sad..sad and disheartening. But hey, the imdb boards are filled with whiny egomaniacs, so it's to be expected.

Yeah I guess but still, it´s just stupid...!

[Jerseymilk]

This is the way I approach anime nowadays. I'll read reviews sometimes, from REPUTABLE sources, just to get an idea of a series I'm interested in. However, I wait to see all or most of the anime myself before I decide to judge it or not. A lot of people don't seem to do that.

[Mirai Trunks´s Nr. 1 fan]

This is the way I approach anime nowadays. I'll read reviews sometimes, from REPUTABLE sources, just to get an idea of a series I'm interested in. However, I wait to see all or most of the anime myself before I decide to judge it or not. A lot of people don't seem to do that.

Yeah I agree, it can also be reverse and you see a single good episode, say the series rocks and then the rest of the series just sucks!

[kenisu3000]

One thing that DOES bother me about DBZ animation is triangle guy™ . I hate when you have 3-4 amazingly animated episodes and then suddenly the next one is done so poorly by that cheap outsourced animation studio.

I've seen mention of this "Triangle Crap Guy" on other threads, but I'm still unfamiliar with who you're talking about. Enlighten me - give me an example episode animated by him/his studio.

[Li'l Lemmy]

I've seen mention of this "Triangle Crap Guy" on other threads, but I'm still unfamiliar with who you're talking about. Enlighten me - give me an example episode animated by him/his studio.

I think No. 1 Fan might mean whichever studio animated episodes like the one where Goku explains Super Saiya-jin 3 to Trunks and Goten, or the one in which Buu makes a house out of people.

I'm trying to think up some ones from other sagas . . . it's hard to tell with the Frieza saga since towards the middle some of that animation tends to mesh together. Hmm, Cell saga . . . oh, the episode just before the episode where Gohan finishes off Cell for good. Goku contacts him telepathically.

At least I think this is the studio in question . . .

As for the actual topic at hand, I'll just look at whatever comes on and make my judgement based on that. Not really the sort who's into reviews 'n such.

(Li'l Lemmy, at least *trying* to stay on-topic.)

[Detective X]

I made a topic a long time ago explaining the different artists of Dragonball.

Triangle Crap Guy is in here. With pictures, even!

http://db.schuby.org/daizex/viewtopic.php?t=892

[Adnan]

I brought up Triangle Guy in this thread.

Perfect examples of this are episode 156 (155 and 157 are amazingly animated however) when Vegeta starts fighting Cell, 2nd form.

Episode 161 when Vegeta kicks Perfect Cell on the neck and Cell's unaffected. What's funny is that you can really tell the difference in ep 162 'cause there's a flashback of that kick from 161.

Also episodes 186 (the episode when SSJ2 Gohan starts to fight cell) and 190 (when Gohan and Cell powerup their Kamehamehas) demonstrate triangle guy's awesome animation talents .

If I'm not mistaken, triangle guy is actually an outsourced South Korean animation studio. I wish they'd only use that studio in the filler episodes but examples above show that he also comes up at the most inconvenient times!

And Detective X, one of the images in that thread is wrong. I don't believe that screenshot of Vegetto (when Buu enters his body) comes from triangle guy. If I remember correctly, that episode was actually well drawn. In the Vegetto arc, the only one done by triangle guy is the very first episode (ep 269) when Vegetto fights Buu in normal mode (and turns SSJ at the end).

[kenisu3000]

Oh, okay, thanks. Now back to our regularily scheduled topic.

Another thing I love about DB/Z/GT are the little nuances in each characters' expressions. One example is when Vegeta goes psycho on Cell for killing Trunks at the Cell Games. He charges forward, and Cell makes this expression (with his nose turned up) that just says a million words.
Obviously, the most prominent ones are the angry looks, but you also have the outbursts made by the characters when, for example, they first find out Goku has a son. I *love* that!!

[Detective X]

I don't believe that screenshot of Vegetto (when Buu enters his body) comes from triangle guy. If I remember correctly, that episode was actually well drawn. In the Vegetto arc, the only one done by triangle guy is the very first episode (ep 269) when Vegetto fights Buu in normal mode (and turns SSJ at the end).

Nope, that's Triangle Crap Guy. I guarantee it. Some episodes are split between animators. But that cel is indeed from TCG.

[Adnan]

Obviously, the most prominent ones are the angry looks, but you also have the outbursts made by the characters when, for example, they first find out Goku has a son. I *love* that!!

I love the scene when Goku tosses a potara to Gohan and the look on Goku's face when Gohan doesn't catch it. I guess the expression is similar to what you described.

Plus it's funny how Goku begs Buu in that scene... Hilarious!

Nope, that's Triangle Crap Guy. I guarantee it. Some episodes are split between animators. But that cel is indeed from TCG.

Well if that's the case, it's certainly better drawn than the rest of the crap. The face isn't all screwed up as it usually is.

[DBW]

I brought up Triangle Guy in this thread.

You guys do of course realize that these episodes aren't animated by a single guy...

Anyways, these people here would be the ones you're looking for:


That image is taken from the episode 190 credits. The exact same people were also credited in episodes 156, 161, and 186. And yes, episodes 155 and 157 were animated by different studios/people.

I'm far too lazy to translate all those names (I also suck at translating names), but a studio called "Last House" seems to be at the root of the problem. They're the top credit for the genga animation (left). Another notable thing is that there are only 2 Toei representatives in the genga credits, while other studios usually have 4 to 8. Also, every time Last House does an episode, we get the same "moving animation" credits (on the right) as well.

Of course, you also shouldn't get the idea that there are only a select few who animated DBZ. There are also further animation credits following these ones (including background, effects, finishing touches, etc.). Not to mention there are at least a dozen or so genga studios alone who worked on the series, and probably several hundred Toei animators who are personally credited throughout. The pattern seems to be a loop between 4 studios at a time (each one doing a different episode within the string of 4 episodes). It's kind of rare, but occasionally a studio will do 2 episodes in a row (Studio Cockpit, a genga studio, seems to do this the most). Also, sometimes there won't even be a studio for the genga, and it will just be Toei animators who worked on the episode (episode 64, which looks freaking *awesome* is a perfect example of this). There will also sometimes be studios credited for the moving animation, so it's all really a mixed bag when it comes to stuff concerneing the animation of episodes.

[Adnan]

I brought up Triangle Guy in this thread.

You guys do of course realize that these episodes aren't animated by a single guy...

Of course we do. I even stated in my last message that it was an outsourced South Korean studio. "Triangle guy™" is just easier to say .

But thanks for that detailed info. Very fascinating.

[Sun_Wukong]

Wow, they must be a complete moron. Understanding a series's plot by watching one episode? You cant even do that with most American tv. -_-

[Adnan]

Wow, they must be a complete moron. Understanding a series's plot by watching one episode? You cant even do that with most American tv. -_-

Not all the time. A lot of US cartoons (and shows in general) follow the intro-plot-conclusion structure within the same episode. In other words, as the episode begins a new villain is introduced and by the end of the episode he's defeated. The next episode has no connection whatsoever with the previous one (unless it's a two-parter). So even if you watch an episode at random it doesn't really make a difference. The downside to this though is that there's very little character development throughout the series because they keep jumping from one short story to the next.

In DBZ on the other hand, you have dozens of episodes forming one big arc so if you just watch an episode at random you won't be able to fully appreciate it.. It's like picking up a book and starting to read it from the middle.

For any Star Trek fans here, the best comparison would be TNG to DS9. While TNG followed the intro-plot-conclusion approach in each episode, DS9 had a more arc-like structure where stories and plots were developped over a span of several episodes (or entire seasons). As a result of this, DS9 had better character development with deeper and more complex storytelling, but you had to watch the show regularly to truly appreciate it.

[Bejiita]

I'm glad many notice the differences in the artists.

Here's my view on artists, I did find a website with an episode guide which had the names of each artists for each episode.

The saiyan saga had some early episodes drawn by multiple people, but after it's one artist to an episode.

Ok, I can see who Trianglal crap is, and I think that name is jokes, triangle crap... He really is a triangle crap artist.

Anyway, triangle crap does do crap drawings, Watching Frieza get sliced in 2 looked good in the episode, but when the next episode starts with Trunks hurtling down to chop him in half (this is, however, the Japanese version) it's some shit picture.

I think the guy who does the no-shading is crap to sometimes, like the episode where the Z Sword is pulled out, he does too many bent faces, and tries to maintain the old rounded edged style Toriyama used to do, but it don't suit the new episodes, because Toriyama himself was asked to make he's pictures more angular for later episodes because they were easier to animate.

I like the artist who done the final Cell episode (he's also the one who done SSJ Gotenks and Super Gotenks Buu Vs Gohan. Infact, when Gotenks goes SSJ that was taken form the manga, which is why it looks awesome, as soon as you see Gotenks again from straight on, it's looks dumb, this picture wasn't in the manga, so he used he's own interpretion on how he looks.

Also, the episode where Vegito fight Buu in no SSJ form is all filler, this is the no-shading guy, he tried he's best for this one, he also done True Saiyans fight alone, he does the SSJ eye pupils way to large. He seems to have a sloppy style, but he is good at drawing the fights in motion.

Bye.

[DBW]

I did find a website with an episode guide which had the names of each artists for each episode.

The saiyan saga had some early episodes drawn by multiple people, but after it's one artist to an episode.

Those are the bijutsu "fine art" credits. They have little to do with the final animation you actually see on screen. The credits you want to look for are the genga "original image" credits, or the Animation Production Supervisior (right after fine art and before the director credit), who is always one of the Toei genga artists credited beforehand (usually immediately following the genga studio credit).

[mangafan]

My god, this is sad. People watch the freekin' ugly first episode and jump to conclusions. Whatever, they can go get themselves screwed.

[Son_GokouSSJ4]

It doesn't matter what you say. Today's generation of anime fans are spoiled and only like whatever is the hottest and newest property of the time. I don't waste my breath on them and don't even consider them genuine anime fans. It's really sad nowadays when you look at how fans rave about this series and that series, when the majority of them are just mediocre.

Man you are SO right! I tell you guys...I've had the most horrible discussions with 'fans' because of this topic. They keep on trying to put down the dragonball series and they talk as if they were the greatest experts of all time. I mean...when people tell me that dragonball is a 'plain' anime with no plot..I mean come on! No plot?! I suppose Naruto then has a brilliant plot worth an oscar! I've been a Dragonball fan for like 13 years now, I've watched loads of other anime's and let me just tell you that dragonball will forever be in my heart because it set a mark for me in every aspect you may think of! The innocence of Gokou...his will to fight and make things better not because he had something in for him...but just because it was the right thing to do! He changed my life and for that I will be forever grateful...and those who may think that I'm crazy...I am...and for those who think that they've seen sooooo many series and think they have the right to bash Dragonball... they can kiss my ass!
nuff' said!

[laserkid]

People can be like that, but really we all have our limits for older stuff, while I can put up with and really enjoy old 80s toons like He Man (get it on DVD now ) a lot of 70s toons raise my ire.

One thing though on the episodic versus arc driven shows, even episode driven stuff will occasionally throw a wrench in everything and change it all - examples in the aforementioned TNG include but are not limited to the ENTIRETY of the Borg storylines - the introduction, the assimilation of Picard., the one they saved, and even the story arch with Lore involving them, to stuff as simple as Geordi’s meeting the woman who designed the Enterprise once as a hologram and later on its own. Even the Klignon storyarchs take unexpected turns as they went along. Episodic in nature does not necessarily mean no plot. Heck even old school He Man (sorry been on a complete and total high for it since the 10 best DVD came out) has ongoing plots even with an episodic nature and a toy company keeping them from doing anything too deep they still managed to sneak in storyline dynamics such as Teela's mother being the sorceress, and even how the Sorceress well...became the sorceress. Don't even get me started on the whole Horde/She Ra plot either.

While I too prefer story arch driven plot, episodic plot can and does expand beyond its initial storylines.