Sub Fans: What's Wrong with Your Version?

[rereboy]

Same problem. Batman had many incarnations.

Look, if 10 years or 20 years from now, there is a true remake/retelling of dragon ball, it would be natural to replace Goku´s voice, as well as others, and maybe even give him more than one voice. And after that, people would not be able to relate just one voice to Goku like before. So if yet another incarnation of goku came around later, there wouldn`t be any problem in using whatever voices they wanted.

Its a very different thing from that to follow a show of original characters (which did not exist before) for 8 years or so and, suddendly, change the voice of the main character that people are more than used to. Its common to keep the same the voice, even if the character gets older, in order to not allienate the public of the show.
If Family guy was still on in 5 years time and they decided to make stewie or Chris a full adult and change his voice, do you think the public would like it? Or Bart? Its the same thing.

[TonyTheTiger]

Same problem. Batman had many incarnations.

That's an unfair dismissal considering Kevin Conroy has been playing Batman for nearly as long as Nozawa has been Goku. In fact, Conroy had played Batman as a regular staple for a longer period of time since the DC Animated Universe lasted 14 years. Hell, people who regularly read comic books almost exclusively say they hear Kevin Conroy's voice in their heads when they read Batman. So, no, you can't dismiss it because Batman had prior incarnations.

And what are you talking about? Chris and Stewie Griffin are both played by adult males. That's apples and oranges.

[rereboy]

Same problem. Batman had many incarnations.

That's an unfair dismissal considering Kevin Conroy has been playing Batman for nearly as long as Nozawa has been Goku.

It was not the only voice of Batman. Like I said, even one more incarnation or one other voice apart from the original its enough for the public to not be nearly as protective of the voice as it is in other cases.

And Batman has been around for many decades. The public knows this and they know that the character will continue to be around for many more, with many incarnations, with many voices. This fact alone is enough to make the public dismiss any voice as the THE only voice of Batman.

This is certanly not the case with Dragon Ball or the Simpson or Family Guy, which so far, only have one incarnation, which makes the public have the feeling of THE voice of the character.

[TonyTheTiger]

Same problem. Batman had many incarnations.

That's an unfair dismissal considering Kevin Conroy has been playing Batman for nearly as long as Nozawa has been Goku.

It was not the only voice of Batman. Like I said, even one more incarnation or one other voice apart from the original its enough for the public to not be nearly as protective of the voice as it is in other cases.

You clearly don't know much about that Batman fanbase.

But this is an unnecessary tangent. I already pointed out the coincidence.

[rereboy]

...

Look... I´m fed up with this argument... I`ve presented my point of view very clearly. There are several examples of cartoon characters keeping their voices (even though they age) around the world in order to not allienate the public which is used to that voice and don`t picture any other for that character.
This will even be much more evident if that voice is the only voice that the character ever had (if you think that the Batman fans are protective of his voice, imagine if that was the only voice the character ever had, EVER). As long as the people in charge of the casting feel that the voice will still work (and they think if the voice will work for the show overall, and not purely as a realistic voice), they almost always keep it.

Its very easy to understand this. And I really can`t understand why you seem to not understand this point of view. But, anyway, I will not discuss it further.. Its already very clear for those who want to understand what I was trying to say.

[TonyTheTiger]

Way to be overly defensive?

I was just explaining that people are really, really hardcore about Batman's voice (which I only mentioned in passing) before you needed to get in a number of aggressive last words. Don't take things so personally and GGPO.

...


I'm going to skip over this nonsense and get back to what I was trying to point out before this bizarre tangent.

Here's the issue as I see it. Goku started out as a kid. Most young boys are played by women. If the story started with Goku already grown up it's highly unlikely they would have cast Nozawa. But because Nozawa had already been playing the character as a kid they kept her. Therefore, if you followed a "no recast" rule, any male character who had started out as a young boy will be voiced by a female while any male character who started out fully grown will be voiced by a male. Whether or not that's appropriate...well...I don't know. But if there is such a rule that's pretty much how things will go.

I'm not saying keeping Nozawa was a bad choice. I like her as Goku. But this is one of those suspension of disbelief situations when we realize that the men who we watched grow up from childhood just happen to have higher pitched voices. Meanwhile, all the men who we were introduced to as fully grown adults just happen to be voiced by males. What a coincidence! You can't really dwell on this stuff or you ruin the viewing experience.

[rereboy]

I don`t really like to be dragged to arguments about simple and easy to understand points that I merely mentioned. I mean, c`mon, I think its easy enough to understand what I was trying to say... Because of the circunstances of Dragon Ball (original characters who never had a previous voice), people really relate their voices to the characters and, of course, in those cases, whenever possible, they (the casting) really want to keep those voices.

It feels so completely unnecessary to start an argument/discussion about it that I even lose my cool.

[VegettoEX]

Less eye-rolling and sarcastic delivery, folks. Be super-cool, or please don't post!

[TonyTheTiger]

I don`t really like to be dragged to arguments about simple and easy to understand points that I merely mentioned. I mean, c`mon, I think its easy enough to understand what I was trying to say... Because of the circunstances of Dragon Ball (original characters who never had a previous voice), people really relate their voices to the characters and, of course, in those cases, whenever possible, they (the casting) really want to keep those voices.

It feels so completely unnecessary to start an argument/discussion about it that I even lose my cool.

Let me ask you something. Would you deny that the reason for that is merely because they didn't recast?

This is why I'm always somewhat skeptical of these "should they have done X?" discussions. Because if they actually had done X then we would probably have accepted that as the norm.

Let's assume they did recast back in 1989. Had that happened would we be asking today "should they have kept Nozawa for adult Goku?" We're obviously going to give deference to whatever it is we're used to. If we had gotten used to a different actor for adult Goku we probably would be thinking, "Whaa? Nozawa as an adult male? Are you crazy?" You actually can see this minor phenomenon whenever there's any recasting. Or, hell, even when it's the same actor just trying a new delivery. Look what's going on with Kai as we speak.

That's why I feel like you can't take this stuff too seriously. Characters are going to sound one way or another and it's not always going to be logical. It's just going to be how it is because those were the casting decisions. It's like watching a movie about a family and then noticing that there's no way any of these people could actually be related. It's not worth dwelling on. Goku sounds the way he sounds. If he sounded differently then that would be the way he sounds. I don't think there's a "right" way to do it. There's just "the way they did it when they did."

Less eye-rolling and sarcastic delivery, folks. Be super-cool, or please don't post!

Heh, no problem, but the eyeroll had nothing to do with that argument. I was making a point about voice casting in general and how when you analyze it it's totally worthy. But, yeah, no worries. It's done.

[Gaffer Tape]

That's why I feel like you can't take this stuff too seriously. Characters are going to sound one way or another and it's not always going to be logical. It's just going to be how it is because those were the casting decisions. It's like watching a movie about a family and then noticing that there's no way any of these people could actually be related. It's not worth dwelling on. Goku sounds the way he sounds. If he sounded differently then that would be the way he sounds. I don't think there's a "right" way to do it. There's just "the way they did it when they did."

I'm in total agreement with this. There's always a level of suspension of disbelief. It's not real. It's actors, and it's drawings. No matter what way you come at it, there's going to be something unrealistic about it because there's almost no real way to exactly recreate these same kinds of conditions of "puberty" in a recording studio. Like you say, there's not "right way," there's just "the way it is." Doesn't mean you have to like it, but it's no more silly or inaccurate than any other way.

[TonyTheTiger]

Exactly. It's why when people say how Nozawa shouldn't be adult Goku because it's not realistic, well, neither is casting an adult female as a young boy anyway. But casting directors do it anyway because casting actual young boys creates lots of problems. There are child labor laws, maturity concerns, and a number of other nagging issues most producers just don't want to deal with.

Flounder in The Little Mermaid and Skippy Squirrel in Animaniacs were both played by boys who ended up going through puberty during development. So in subsequent recording sessions they had trouble matching earlier voice recordings. It wasn't necessarily a worse choice. In fact, I like the added bit of "realism" of having young boys play young boys. But these are cartoons. Do we really want to go down the path of analyzing how puberty affects a cartoon character?

You can say Nozawa's adult Goku is not what Goku would sound like after going through puberty. Of course if you recast you could just as easily say adult Goku's voice would not be the resulting voice of young Goku after going through puberty. Regardless of what voice we get as a character ages, it's not going to be realistic. The only "realistic" alternative would be if they had cast a young boy who happened to go through puberty at the same time Goku grew up. Maybe that would be ideal but it would be nearly impossible to orchestrate.

But at the same time to say that keeping Nozawa (or anyone for that matter) is such an obvious choice, it's really not. It could swing either way. Disney recast both Simba and Nala in The Lion King and that was a voice swap that happened over the course of 5 minutes. You'd think it would be jarring but I didn't hear anybody complaining from the audience. You just accept the voice because that's what they gave you.

If we're going to say that Toei made the "right" choice with Goku then are we going to say that Disney made the "wrong" choice with Simba? I think that's ridiculously unfair. They just made choices. Neither right nor wrong.

[JulieYBM]

So is the point of the discussion being had in regards to Nozawa voicing Gokû basically dub fans (fans who grew up with an adult Gokû played by a male, it doesn't even matter which dub) believing they know better than the people who created the series that their preffered dub is based on? In more simple terms: "fans smart, people who made their show dumb?"

That seems to me what these discussions always boil down to. I could apply it to many other examples, too. Just look at all of those "Kevin Conroy is Batman" arguments. He's four different Batman characters (five if you include Justice Lord Batman). Tim Daly is three different Superman characters (four if you include the alternate reality Superman he played in that one episode of Superman: The Animated Series where Lois winds up in an alternate reality where she was dead). There is no universal voice for Batman because different actors for different versions are always being casted in the original productions.

There will likely be a very sad day when an original production casts a Gokû not played by Nozawa. That will be said new actor's Gokû, their role. Not Nozawa's, theirs that they deserve to be recognized for or criticized for. The actor is a very key part of creating a character, that's why Nozawa was kept when Gokû turned nineteen. After one hundred thirty episodes she was the best actor for the job and continues to be.

Let's take Dragon Ball Kai for example. Mr. Masaharu Satô voices Muten Rôshi. Previously, in Dragon Ball Z he was voiced by Kôhei Miyauchi for the first two hundred sixty-six episodes and then Hiroshi Masuoka for #288-291. As much as I dislike Masuoka's work, those are his episodes. Not Miyauchi's, not Aikawa's, not Satô's.

So thank God Kai is Satô's, rather than Aikawa or Masuoka. :p

[penguintruth]

Why would you assume that? Please re-read the thread title. I don't like the dub, but Schemmel's Adult Gokū is far more suiting than Nozawa's.

Yeah, a voice with no personality or charm to it at all by a guy who can barely act is so much better than a brilliant performance that brings the character to life.

You're right, it is unlikely an adult man of Goku's body would have a voice like Nozawa's voice for him. And it's sort of a cartoony character voice. But this isn't any other character. This is Son Goku. He's all about being different from everybody else. You can't really apply the same standards to Goku that you do to other characters. He's not like the others, so he needs to be treated differently.

It's not hypocritical for me to expect the other characters to have natural voices and Goku not to. Because his voice is natural for him.

[AgitoZ]

Why would you assume that? Please re-read the thread title. I don't like the dub, but Schemmel's Adult Gokū is far more suiting than Nozawa's.

Yeah, a voice with no personality or charm to it at all by a guy who can barely act is so much better than a brilliant performance that brings the character to life.

Thank you someone who agrees with me. I know Nozawa is not realistic but how is Schemmel any better. I would still like to know Piccolo Daimaoh's reasons for preference of Schemmel.

[Rocketman]

So is the point of the discussion being had in regards to Nozawa voicing Gokû basically dub fans (fans who grew up with an adult Gokû played by a male, it doesn't even matter which dub) believing they know better than the people who created the series that their preffered dub is based on? In more simple terms: "fans smart, people who made their show dumb?"

The guys who made the show made Garlic Jr and GT.


So...yes?

You're right, it is unlikely an adult man of Goku's body would have a voice like Nozawa's voice for him. And it's sort of a cartoony character voice. But this isn't any other character. This is Son Goku. He's all about being different from everybody else. You can't really apply the same standards to Goku that you do to other characters. He's not like the others, so he needs to be treated differently.

And Tullece and Bardock?

[penguintruth]

And Tullece and Bardock?

It's a thematic thing with them, linking with Goku, but if they had different VAs, I wouldn't mind.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Nozawa's Burdock and Tullece voices are freakin' sexy, anyway. Tullece in particular sounds very manly!

[Cowboy Dev]

Why would you assume that? Please re-read the thread title. I don't like the dub, but Schemmel's Adult Gokū is far more suiting than Nozawa's.

Yeah, a voice with no personality or charm to it at all by a guy who can barely act is so much better than a brilliant performance that brings the character to life.

Thank you someone who agrees with me. I know Nozawa is not realistic but how is Schemmel any better. I would still like to know Piccolo Daimaoh's reasons for preference of Schemmel.

Blame it on that mindset that physically strong-looking males = Macho Manly Badass. These people failed to understand personality > physicality. Son's not Superman, he's Huckleberry Finn minus the drunken Dad and black best friend.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Son's not Superman, he's Huckleberry Finn minus the drunken Dad and black best friend.

Uh... hate to break it to you, but Mr. Popo is black, not blue. Don't watch the CW4Kids version of the show.

(Also, Goku's father is a brilliant, drunken scientist.)

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Thank you someone who agrees with me. I know Nozawa is not realistic but how is Schemmel any better. I would still like to know Piccolo Daimaoh's reasons for preference of Schemmel.

Have you not been reading my posts on this thread? Schemmel's Gokū sounds age appropriate. It also sounds believable. As in, I can believe that voice is coming out of that mouth.

Blame it on that mindset that physically strong-looking males = Macho Manly Badass.

I wouldn't want Gokū to be voiced by Hulk Hogan.

Son's not Superman,

And I wouldn't want him to have a voice like Superman, either.

And Tullece and Bardock?

But Rocketman, remember: "personality > physicality". Despite they've probably killed millions of people each.

You're right, it is unlikely an adult man of Goku's body would have a voice like Nozawa's voice for him. And it's sort of a cartoony character voice. But this isn't any other character. This is Son Goku. He's all about being different from everybody else. You can't really apply the same standards to Goku that you do to other characters. He's not like the others, so he needs to be treated differently.

Batman's different to a lot of people aswell. He's a crime fighting genius who has a giant mansion and frickin' secret lair.