Ocean Studios' "Dragon Ball Kai" Dub Turns 16; Still Unreleased

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

I don't see why Canada should get their own dub, just because children hated Season 3 ten years ago.

Because they can.

The DBZ series was a big deal for the Vancouver cast. Throughout its duration, it used some of Vancouver's best veteran actors. It brought in a lot of money, and that's ultimately what this is about.

If Canada has the will and the means to produce its own dub, there's no real reason why it shouldn't. Plus, again, the DBZ dub was for international audiences (i.e. outside of Canada), and Kai will presumably be the same. The first 60 episodes of the Airwaves/Ocean DBZ dub never even aired in Canada. For reasons that are beyond the scope of this discussion, FUNimation's Dragonball properties are not sold to Europeans. The Canadian dub was a cheaper alternative that gave international audiences what they wanted (the original cast back). It was an easy sell. While it is now many years later, and yes, FUNi's product may have improved, it doesn't change anything. The Dragonball Z property has long been a big deal in Vancouver and by all accounts, the actors were pissed when they were screwed out of getting to dub Dragonball and Dragonball GT by Ken Morrison.

The quality of FUNimation's product is irrelevant, and always has been. It's about money. It isn't even so much that Canada wants its own dub, it's that there is enough demand coming from somewhere for a non-FUNi dub and a host of professional actors who want to do it. It just so happens that those actors are based in Vancouver.

And on a more personal level, I consider it better to have two dubs than one. No point in limiting your options if you don't have to.

[RazorX]

I think some people don't realise the importance of the Ocean dub. There are fans in UK and Europe who probably only saw DBZ on TV, therefore the Ocean dub is the only dub they know and they most likely won't like the Funimation voices. Just because Funi may have improved compared to their previous dub, doesn't mean they're in Ocean's league, far from it. Why should fans of the Ocean dub be content with Funi's dub just because some people are expressing the mentality of "Why should the Ocean dub of Kai air in country '1' when country '2' didn't get it" and that comes across as selfish. The irony is that the people who are coming across as expressing this attitude (not just on this forum) probably won't even be able to watch the Ocean dub legally, unless they purchase DVD/Blu rays of it, if it gets released on those mediums.

To put things in some form of perspective, some of you may not be aware of this, but in the United Kingdom, when the new Fusion episodes started airing, it was the Funi dub. For most sagas prior to that it was Ocean. When the Funi dubbed Fusion episodes started, there was an outcry and Toonami lost viewers, fact. As a result, Toonami lost money. People stopped watching DBZ simply because they hated the Funi voices, it was like the season 3 mess all over again. Some weeks later the Funi dubbed Fusion episodes were permanently repaced by the Ocean dubbed Fusion episodes. Clearly Toonami (Or CNX as it was when this situation occured) saw the benefits of getting the Ocean dub of those episodes (re-attracting lost viewers) outweighed the cost.

Some people underestimate Funimation's ability to put viewers off, and underestimate Ocean's ability to attract viewers. If Dragon Ball Kai is to reach the pinnacle of success worldwide, it needs the Ocean dub. Whoever is producing the Ocean dub probably saw that.

I don't ordinarily agree with Piccolo Daimaoh, so you know we must be right.

You're both wrong

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Because they can.

Again, so can Australia. Even New Zealand can, for that matter. Using "just because they can" as an argument is stupid.

The DBZ series was a big deal for the Vancouver cast. Throughout its duration, it used some of Vancouver's best veteran actors. It brought in a lot of money, and that's ultimately what this is about.

If this is about money, then it can be saved by just airing FUNimation's dub.

If Canada has the will and the means to produce its own dub, there's no real reason why it shouldn't.

Yes, there is. See above. They are to produce something that essentially already exists. That's like New Zealand manufacturing Vegemite, instead of importing it from Australia.

While it is now many years later, and yes, FUNi's product may have improved, it doesn't change anything.

Of course it does. Kai is being marketed to today's generation of children, who have probably never seen any Dragon Ball before. They are not going to care whether the voices they're hearing are American or Canadian.

And on a more personal level, I consider it better to have two dubs than one.

The last thing the Dragon Ball fanbase needs is an influx of "FUNi vs. Ocean" wars.

I think some people don't realise the importance of the Ocean dub. There are fans in UK and Europe who probably only saw DBZ on TV, therefore the Ocean dub is the only dub they know and they most likely won't like the Funimation voices. Just because Funi may have improved compared to their previous dub, doesn't mean they're in Ocean's league, far from it. Why should fans of the Ocean dub be content with Funi's dub just because some people are expressing the mentality of "Why should the Ocean dub of Kai air in country '1' when country '2' didn't get it" and that comes across as selfish. The irony is that the people who are coming across as expressing this attitude (not just on this forum) probably won't even be able to watch the Ocean dub legally, unless they purchase DVD/Blu rays of it, if it gets released on those mediums.

How many times does this need to be said? Kai's target audience on TV is young children of today. Not people in their twenties, who grew up watching Dragon Ball Z on Toonami. All of this "the FUNi dub was not well received in Canada" bullshit is irrelevant now. That happened ten years ago. I reiterate: new target audience with little to no familiarity of the show in general.

[RazorX]

Because they can.

Again, so can Australia. Even New Zealand can, for that matter. Using "just because they can" as an argument is stupid.

If they can, they should. The more English dubs of DBZ Kai, the better.

But I doubt it would be feasible for them, they'd need to license the show then find a studio to dub it.

If this is about money, then it can be saved by just airing FUNimation's dub.

The more satisfied consumers you have, the more money you'll make. Ocean provides the most satisfied consumers if we go by the DBZ dubs, no reason why they won't for Kai. There's more need for an Ocean dub of Kai than a Funi dub.

Yes, there is. See above. They are to produce something that essentially already exists. That's like New Zealand manufacturing Vegemite, instead of importing it from Australia.

If we can have Ocean, there's no reason to settle with Funimation, which will be seen as inferior by most of Ocean's target audience.

Again I ask the question, why should Ocean fans have to put up with Funi's dub if they can get the Ocean dub?

Of course it does. Kai is being marketed to today's generation of children, who have probably never seen any Dragon Ball before. They are not going to care whether the voices they're hearing are American or Canadian.

There's no doubt that a big chunk of the audience for Kai is made up of existing DBZ fans.

The last thing the Dragon Ball fanbase needs is an influx of "FUNi vs. Ocean" wars.

Who cares about that. The real product of substance is the Ocean dub. If it means some people will rage with each other over the internet, I don't give a damn.

How many times does this need to be said? Kai's target audience on TV is young children of today. Not people in their twenties, who grew up watching Dragon Ball Z on Toonami. All of this "the FUNi dub was not well received in Canada" bullshit is irrelevant now. That happened ten years ago. I reiterate: new target audience with little to no familiarity of the show in general.

I am unconvinced by this. That would mean Kai would have to make DBZ a success from scratch, which it could but I'm fairly certain that Toei had DBZ fans in mind as well as new fans when producing Kai. That also explains why Funi was reluctant to drop certain dub terms and recast more characters, they, and Ocean, most likely have the DBZ fans in mind as well as new fans.

[Ussj Future Trunks]

That would be something, wouldn't it? "Oy mate! I be goin' Super Saiyan 2 roight naow!"

Um we don't talk like that. Jeice is a stereotype. I for one don't go saying "Oi Mate!". I consider it rude. Just call people by their name, you know? I think an Australian dub would just be similar to the American/British ones but with our own accents and slang.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

Again, so can Australia. Even New Zealand can, for that matter. Using "just because they can" as an argument is stupid.

No, actually, it's pretty valid. That's what you don't seem to understand.

Canada has a well-established and lucrative voice acting industry. Australia does not. If Australia had one, maybe you'd get your own dub as well. But also, from a pure rights perspective, FUNimation seems to have more of a stronghold in Australia than it does in Canada.

And again, the international dub is not just for Canada. Why is that so hard to understand?

If this is about money, then it can be saved by just airing FUNimation's dub.

Again, you fail to understand. It isn't about saving money, it's about making money. Why shouldn't the Ocean dub be made if there is money to be made from it? Why should FUNimation get all the money if there is a cheaper alternative out there for networks to purchase? In 2001, FUNimation sold season 5 of DBZ to Cartoon Network for $10 million US. The Ocean dub was reportedly significantly cheaper than that, thus more appealing to other networks to buy. Kai will undoubtedly be the same.

Yes, there is. See above. They are to produce something that essentially already exists. That's like New Zealand manufacturing Vegemite, instead of importing it from Australia.

Yes, it may already exist, but it doesn't change anything. You had multiple Spanish and Portugese dubs of Dragonball Z back in the day (Spain, Mexico, Portugal, Brazil, etc.), and it's slowly looking like the same thing will happen with Kai. Several international dubs have already been announced. Were the alternate DBZ dubs redundant as well?

Of course it does. Kai is being marketed to today's generation of children, who have probably never seen any Dragon Ball before. They are not going to care whether the voices they're hearing are American or Canadian.

No, it doesn't. This is about making money. The company producing the alternate Kai dub doesn't give a rat's ass whether FUNi's product is of better quality nowadays. They want to do one themselves because they have paying customers (Canadian and European networks) who will buy it.

How many times does this need to be said? Kai's target audience on TV is young children of today. Not people in their twenties, who grew up watching Dragon Ball Z on Toonami. All of this "the FUNi dub was not well received in Canada" bullshit is irrelevant now. That happened ten years ago. I reiterate: new target audience with little to no familiarity of the show in general.

Again, you really don't seem to understand. It may be marketed to children, but Canadian and European children are not American children. They don't all need to see FUNi's dub just because you say so. Another dub is being produced because a studio that just happens to be based in Canada has the legal go-ahead to do it, and wants to make money. Period.

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

But I doubt it would be feasible for them, they'd need to license the show then find a studio to dub it.

I know. I'm saying that we don't produce our own dubs, we simply use pre-existing dubs from the U.S and sometimes Canada. We have the money and means to do them, we just don't bother since other countries are already doing them.

The more satisfied consumers you have, the more money you'll make.

True. But producing something yourself just to bring in a few more potential consumers, is not worth it. Canada should just air FUNimation's dub, and risk pissing off some Ocean dub fans on the internet.

Ocean provides the most satisfied consumers if we go by the DBZ dubs, no reason why they won't for Kai.

Because that was a long time ago, and under different circumstances. I guarantee that if Canada airs the FUNimation dub, ten-year-olds won't boycott it, à la Season 3.

There's no doubt that a big chunk of the audience for Kai is made up of existing DBZ fans.

Agreed. But the audience for the show on TV is almost completely made up of new fans, who didn't see the show on Toonami.

I am unconvinced by this.

I said the target audience on TV, where the show is edited. The target audience for the DVDs is obviously older fans, since it's uncut.

It isn't about saving money, it's about making money.

By saving money, you can make more profit. Simple, no?

Why shouldn't the Ocean dub be made if there is money to be made from it?

There's also more money to be made, by just using FUNimation's dub.

Kai will undoubtedly be the same.

Really? The same as ten years ago? FUNimation has changed since then.

Yes, it may already exist, but it doesn't change anything. You had multiple Spanish and Portugese dubs of Dragonball Z back in the day (Spain, Mexico, Portugal, Brazil, etc.), and it's slowly looking like the same thing will happen with Kai.

There were two Spanish dubs because there is enough differences between Latin American Spanish and Castillian Spanish, to warrant two dubs being made. Canadian English and American English are virtually the same thing (I can't tell the difference, myself).

Were the alternate DBZ dubs redundant as well?.

Yep. Especially when the scripts were almost identical.

They want to do one themselves because they have paying customers (Canadian and European networks) who will buy it.

Does Ocean even have the rights to distribute the DVDs in Canada and Europe?

Again, you really don't seem to understand. It may be marketed to children, but Canadian and European children are not American children.

Canadian childrens' ears won't burst if they hear characters on a cartoon show speaking with a different accent. Us Australians didn't seen to mind.

[Adamant]

Which brings me back to my other point. That was all the way back when Z was airing on TV. We're talking about Kai, now. Kai is airing on TV for children who have probably never seen any Dragon Ball before. Children who weren't pissed off at the cast switch and don't have a preferred English dub, unlike us hardcore fans.

Isn't this the exact opposite of the rationale for why they can't toss out Sabat, Schemmel and friend and cast more fitting VAs in their place?
Why can you get your shitty Vegeta voice you grew up with, while Ocean Land people can't get the shitty Vegeta voice THEY grew up with?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Isn't this the exact opposite of the rationale for why they can't toss out Sabat, Schemmel and friend and cast more fitting VAs in their place?

I thought it was because Sabat and Schemmel didn't want to give up the roles they've been doing for so long. Also, Sabat is the director and he and Schemmel are friends.

[Attitudefan]

Which brings me back to my other point. That was all the way back when Z was airing on TV. We're talking about Kai, now. Kai is airing on TV for children who have probably never seen any Dragon Ball before. Children who weren't pissed off at the cast switch and don't have a preferred English dub, unlike us hardcore fans.

Isn't this the exact opposite of the rationale for why they can't toss out Sabat, Schemmel and friend and cast more fitting VAs in their place?
Why can you get your shitty Vegeta voice you grew up with, while Ocean Land people can't get the shitty Vegeta voice THEY grew up with?

Because the world is shit, that's why!
But doesn't Kai cater to the hardcore fans, I mean would first time viewers understand the sense of "KAI" or "The way it was meant to be seen!"
Hardcore fans want it, Kai is for everybody but, if it's about money then who will be buying the DVD's/merchandise? The hardcore fans.

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

By saving money, you can make more profit. Simple, no?

That logic doesn't exactly follow. How would the Canadian company be making a profit by not making and selling their own dub to TV networks?

And the networks who purchase the alternate Kai dub will presumably be saving money by purchasing a cheaper alternative than the FUNi dub. They'll get the same audience either way (children, as you keep going on about), the same money from advertisers, but it costs less for them to purchase the rights to air the show than it would if they bought the FUNimation version. For the networks, there really is no benefit in buying FUNi's product whatsoever if a less costly version is available.

There's also more money to be made, by just using FUNimation's dub.

That...really doesn't make sense. At all. How exactly would I be making more money by buying someone else's property when I can buy another's nearly identical property for less money? Again, the logic doesn't add up.

Really? The same as ten years ago? FUNimation has changed since then.

Kai will undoubtedly be the same in terms of being the less expensive alternative for the networks to purchase. It's as simple as that. Again, the improved quality of FUNi's product is irrelevant to these matters. Money talks.

Does Ocean even have the rights to distribute the DVDs in Canada and Europe?

The alternate dub is for television broadcast only, so talk about DVD sales is irrelevant.

Canadian childrens' ears won't burst if they hear characters on a cartoon show speaking with a different accent. Us Australians didn't seen to mind.

No, although it seems that you have a problem with the fact that both America and Canada have their own dubs, but you do not. Maybe you'd feel differently if Australia had its own dub as well.

[penguintruth]

A whole boatload of cartoons aired in America are dubbed in Canada, and visa versa. I don't see the big deal behind airing Funimation's Kai dub overe there and calling it a day.

[Adamant]

And I don't see the big deal about kicking out the entire Funi DBZ cast and hiring a new Kai cast that actually fit their roles.

So how is this any different, anyway? US nostalgics and Canadian nostalgics alike apparently both want their old shitty Z dub cast from their childhood in Kai, so why should only one of these groups get it?

[Dark Vegeta-Sama]

A whole boatload of cartoons aired in America are dubbed in Canada, and visa versa. I don't see the big deal behind airing Funimation's Kai dub overe there and calling it a day.

Because a Canadian-based company that has the means to produce its own dub wants to make money just as much as FUNimation does.

Seriously, this isn't hard to figure out. You may feel that it's unnecessary, but the why is very simple: FUNimation isn't the only company that wants to make profit.

It isn't any more complicated than that.

[Mewzard]

Because it's entirely unnecessary. It would cost a lot less to license an already existing dub than it would be to license the series, pay translators, a director, many actors, and put time and money to put out a good release. Unless Funi's just going to rip off Canada, but I doubt they'd charge too much more than what Nicktoons and CW gladly paid and are getting high ratings for.

Kai got a dub cast that fit their roles (minus one or two iffy roles, but that's going to happen in any series).

Any network that airs Kai is going to get quite a profit from high ratings, there's the money right there. Even if there is a dub for Canada, I believe Funi owns the North American Broadcast rights, so they'd have to sell Funi Kai, wouldn't they? This would just confuse a bunch of kids who just want to watch the series they just discovered and like.

The fact that a good English dub exists should be enough. There doesn't need to be two dubs (it's not like Chinese, with Mandarin, Cantonese, etc).

[Adamant]

Kai got a dub cast that fit their roles (minus one or two iffy roles, but that's going to happen in any series).

No, it got largely the same dub cast as the Z dub, where they picked cheap actors off the street and told them to imitate the old cast, which wasn't really cast to fit the roles either. We're not talking about a random Funi dub fan's nostalgic fondness for these actors here.

[Mewzard]

Kai got a dub cast that fit their roles (minus one or two iffy roles, but that's going to happen in any series).

No, it got largely the same dub cast as the Z dub, where they picked cheap actors off the street and told them to imitate the old cast, which wasn't really cast to fit the roles either. We're not talking about a random Funi dub fan's nostalgic fondness for these actors here.

If you haven't noticed, many of the original actors have come to their own as actors, and have been in many a good dub. It's been a LONG TIME since it was imitation voices.

[penguintruth]

Yeah, even I think that. For the most part.

Still wouldn't have minded a few more recasts, though...

[Adamant]

Kai got a dub cast that fit their roles (minus one or two iffy roles, but that's going to happen in any series).

No, it got largely the same dub cast as the Z dub, where they picked cheap actors off the street and told them to imitate the old cast, which wasn't really cast to fit the roles either. We're not talking about a random Funi dub fan's nostalgic fondness for these actors here.

If you haven't noticed, many of the original actors have come to their own as actors, and have been in many a good dub. It's been a LONG TIME since it was imitation voices.

That wasn't my point. Regardless of your personal opinions of these actors, regardless of their eventual qualities, they were casted because "they played that role in the Z dub", not because "they fit the role". Kai wasn't "casted" as much as "had the Z dubbers shuffled over".

And just like you think these people "fit the roles" because you grew up on them in the roles, a person who grew up with the Ocean guys in these roles probably think they "fit the roles" better. What makes your nostalgic rationale more valid than theirs?

[Piccolo Daimaoh]

Kai will undoubtedly be the same in terms of being the less expensive alternative for the networks to purchase

But how do you know this for sure? You can't say conlcusively that it will be the same as it was ten years ago. Also, when I said FUNimation has "changed", I didn't mean their dubbing practices. I meant the company from a business perspective.

No, although it seems that you have a problem with the fact that both America and Canada have their own dubs, but you do not.

How the hell did you come to that conclusion? All of a sudden I'm jealous? FYI, I do have an English Kai dub that I really like. Even if a dub of Kai was produced in Australia, it would probably be shithouse. I'm not going to support something, solely based on the fact that it was made in my home country.

Maybe you'd feel differently if Australia had its own dub as well.

I'm begining to think that this is more about patriotism, than a cartoon show. A good dub is a good dub. No matter where it comes from.

What makes your nostalgic rationale more valid than theirs?

Uh. Nostlagia...... nostlagia....... nostlagia.