"Gateway Drug"

Sun_Wukong · Post by **Sun_Wukong** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:08 am

Why does it seem like DB is always a "Gateway Drug" for people to get into anime? When it is, it can turn out in one of two ways. One, they can end up one of those incredibly obnoxious Dubbies, wich usually only happens to kids under 13. Two, they could end up like most of the people on this forum and actually take DB seriously.

The "Gateway Drugs" seem to almost always be the big 4, Akira, Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the Shell, or DB. Has anyone else noticed this or am I loosing it?

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 12:57 pm

While I've seen Ninja Scroll a hundred thousand times, I don't think it's a gateway drug... maybe a gateway drug for learning about mature anime?

The others, sure. Especially DB and Akira. Ghost in the Shell is a bit newer, so it might be what's grabbing a lot of the new (yet still intelligent) anime fans.

Hehe... a while back I went into a Rogers with my mother to rent some anime, and the guy working there part time was a huge Miyazaki fan. I talked to him for a while and I found that the Rogers I was at had a huge collection of Miyazaki films. Anyway, he said that some of the movies had more mature content, and asked if I had seen Ninja Scroll. I was way younger than him, and when I told him I did, he says "Does your mom know about that?". My mom is just standing there, looking totally clueless... ehhehe...

Dayspring · Post by **Dayspring** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:19 pm

"Gateway Drugs"? Never heard of this label. Maybe I'm too much of a dubbie.

Personally I find there's a third category: the Elitist Bastard who spites everyone under his influence (the Trekkies of whatever manga/anime he makes a site about, or a guy who gets pissed if people don't act like him when they e-mail him/visit his msg board/chatroom).

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 3:33 pm

Yeah. And related to them would be the smug gits. These would be the people who refuse to buy FUNImation's DVDs. Or they'd write "Seru". They must die.

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:15 pm

Dont forget the people who get in via Dragon Ball and then just as quickly become Dragon Ball haters, yet hang around Dragon Ball boards etc. talking about how much they hate it.

Those are the most annoying ones in my opinion.

Also I think Sailor Moon had a big influence in North America in the mid 90's.

Alias · Post by **Alias** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:30 pm

Ditto, Kodoshin. Although there's one more offshoot to that category. There's the spineless, gutless, cowardly, stinkin' people who watched DB but start going to other anime sites and getting involved in other anime series, becoming part of the anti-DB communities (which is just about every anime community). They try to hide all evidence from their peers that they ever liked Dragonball, without actively bashing it, by saying that they only liked it when they were "younger" or that it was just a newbie anime

that they were briefly into but that they discovered the glory of Evangelion and became enlightened to "real anime." Bleah...

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 4:45 pm

I think the "Gateway Drug" for girls to get into anime in North America was definitely Sailor Moon. I can't tell you how many times girls have told me that was the first series they got into and it still holds a really special place in their memories. One thing that Sailor Moon did for the North American anime scene, it proved that a Shojo series could be successful over here, even if they did dumb it down to four-year-olds and it's one of the worst slash and dub jobs ever done.

Of course the worst is still Cardcaptor Sakura, but I'm getting off topic here. About your comment Kodoshin and Alias, concerning people who got into DB and now hate it, that reminds me of a conversation I had just this weekend. I had gone down to my local comic store to pick up the latest Cell DVD and DB Boxset and there was this kid there that I guess was around 15, anyway we got to talking because he was mentioning the Evangelion box set was a good deal and I agreed since I had picked it up too. Then I mentioned that the DB boxsets were a good deal too, in my opinion and he then tells me that he's gotten tired of DB and doesn't it watch anymore. That it just doesn't hold his interest anymore. I could tell by the way he answered that he no longer thought much of the series. However, right after that, he proceeds to tell me that he loves Yu Yu Hakusho, Saiyuki, and Saint Seiya! What!? What's up with that!?

You're tired of DB, but you think those three series are just great and not tedious at all!? Have you guys ever seen Saint Seiya? Trust me, it the one long slugfest show of all the one long slugfest shows! Not that I care, I like Saint Seiya myself, but my point is, his attitude was a total oxymoron! Oh ya, to make it even more ironic, he then mentioned that he also really, really, loooved reading One Piece. *sighs and slowly shakes her head* You know Zacko and Dayspring, maybe we should branch out and hunt these guys too?

Kodoshin · Post by **Kodoshin** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:52 pm

I think what is worse than the seemingly constant slamming of shows like Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon (etc.) are the attempts to discredit the opinions of the fans of these shows.

Honestly it seems like several "mixed" message board communities I've been to regarding anime tend to treat fans of the more mainstream popular shows as lower-tier.

I think it's quite sad that in such a large fandom, such a huge division of it exists mainly because of foolish bullying and "me too", attitudes.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 8:53 pm

I guess Dragonball is the North American "Gate-Way" anime into more anime, because up until awhile ago you just didn't have many options. When anime was brought over, it was either made into a kids cartoon, or "Adult Only Cartoons" like Ninja scroll or Ghost in the Shell.

I take a little offence to the comment that the dubs only attracted immature "dubbies", because I was one. I was a huge fan of the original 13 episodes that FUNimation dubbed with Ocean group, of course I didn't know how badly it had been butchured, but I still enjoyed it. Their just wasn't many options at that time. Now look at me, I'm a Dragonball guru in my own mind.

PsyLiam · Post by **PsyLiam** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:04 pm

Hey, it could be worse. You could walk into an anime convention and mention that you love Pokemon.

Zackarotto · Post by **Zackarotto** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 9:50 pm

I watched Pokémon... It had some good moments, you know. Of course, it also had face-smashing-against-wall-type-moments as well.

Jerseymilk: Sounds good, we're not sexist people. We have no problem with killing fanboys. Anyone who doesn't like DB should be a target... I have a feeling this guy never liked it in the first place. Your love for it can only increase.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:32 pm

Hey Psy, as I said in another post, I also really like Pokemon and I always defend it when people harp on it. I find another problem with the snobbishnish of some anime people is the fact that a lot of anime magazines *coughAnimericacough* and online anime sites that do reviews also have that snobby, judgemental attitude, so they aren't setting a very good example for the rest of the community are they?

Zackorotto:I don't care if someone doesn't like DB because it's just not their thing, but if they don't like it because they think it's beneath them, or that liking it makes you less of an anime fan, or they're snobs, well ya I'm definitely pull'in out them shurikens!

omae no kaasan · Post by **omae no kaasan** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:37 pm

Although DB still is and will continue to be, I think the Akira, GitS, Ninja Scroll generation is now grown up and for that matter done.

Now people insult GitS. Who'd have thought we would reach that point in American ignorance?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Tue Feb 17, 2004 11:52 pm

Ya I've seen that lately too omae! Actually I just read a review on some site the other day, that said GitS was an "okay" piece of work. What!? Maybe we're not talking about the same movie here. You know, the one that Mamoru Oshii directed? Really deep, interesting storyline? Wonderful atomosphere that's in all of Oshii's films? Based on a manga by Masamune Shirow? Music by the talented Kenji Kawai? You know, with that hauntingly beautiful piece "The Making of a Cyborg" playing all through it? The way it captured the look of Hong Kong so well? The fantastic animation? Okay, I guess you can tell I'm a fan, I'll shut-up now.

Ramenman · Post by **Ramenman** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:18 am

I've used the term "gateway drug" to describe Dragonball a few times. I can say without hesitation that it's the truth. After watching it for a few weeks, I wanted to know all about Japanese animation. Nowadays, I consider myself to be a casual anime fan; if something peaks my interest I'll check it out.

As for Ninja Scroll and GitS, I've only seen GitS and honestly I didn't think much of it then. Of course I was watching the dubbed version of it. Is it any better in Japanese?

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:29 am

Ya it is better in Japanese, mostly because the seiyuu for Kusanagi is a lot less flat then the dubbed version, which was done by Manga and well, their dubs tend to be pretty bad.

Ramenman · Post by **Ramenman** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:37 am

Yeah, Manga does some bad dubbing. I'll never forget one line from the film that always made me laugh because of it's delivery:

"Talk? And just what exactly are you going to talk about? You don't even know your own name you STUPID DICKHEAD!"

I've also heard that some of the subtitle jobs aren't that good either. I think I read once that Perfect Blue was filled with excess cursing. Not that there's anything too wrong with that.

Also, Jersey: when I made the first post earlier, your number of posts read 666. Kinda freaked me out.

Jerseymilk · Post by **Jerseymilk** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:47 am

Really? Now why would it read that?

Ramenman · Post by **Ramenman** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 1:52 am

Heh...beats the hell out of me. Actually I just thought of something. If hell is HFIL in the dub, and 666 is the mark of the beast...would it be 999 in the dub?

I really need to go to bed...

Daimao · Post by **Daimao** » Wed Feb 18, 2004 2:08 am

I just wanted to mention that one of the things that has bothered me lately is the way the word "butcher" has been tossed around with such reckless abandon when discussing editing. It used to be a word that carried some weight, but has since become the go-to word in all of fandom for every little thing, no matter how warranted or necessary. As such, the word has lost its meaning, and whenever it gets used any more, I dismiss it out of hand. I've almost made my own personal corollary to Godwin's law as far as the use of "butcher" goes. It bugs me that language gets dilluted like that.

Now, that print of Superman II that I saw as a kid at the Bijou? What a train wreck! There were so many splices in that thing, it looked like it had beenedited with a chainsaw! I mean, it was really butch-- oh, never mind. What was the topic?

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"Gateway Drug"

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