Something about Piccolo I don't get?

[Amigo Ten]

Again, I realize why for plot reasons this occurred (so they would have to go to Nemak and Piccolo would have his change of heart) but is there any logical reason to do this?

Piccolo didn't want Gohan to die because he cared for him. What more do you need?

[rereboy]

Even in the manga, Goku had plenty of time to come back to Earth. My theory is that he was basically committing suicide, since he later says that he'd rather stay dead, because he's like a magnet for bad guys.

In the manga, in several moments, we saw that fighters often have time to speak but lack time to do anything else like move away.

Basically and logically, they should be able to move faster than they can speak and they should even be faster than sound itself. But that is one of those things that is not consistent in order to make a better story or better character reactions.

Goku, even when he is teleporting, always needs a moment to focus. Just like one of those moments where the character is unable to move faster than he can speak, Goku couldn`t teleport faster than he could speak, and Cell exploded immediately after.

[Fox666]

Classic Dragon Ball question

"Why is everybody worried that X character died if they can resurrect that person? Shouldn't they be worrying about the villain that is going to explode the universe in front of them?"

[Rocketman]

I think it's funny how there's a similar situation later, and Vegeta just kicks Gohan in the face to knock him out of the way.

[Turtle Marked Stone]

I think it's funny how there's a similar situation later, and Vegeta just kicks Gohan in the face to knock him out of the way.

That's probably what he meant by "compassion making you weak".

Classic Dragon Ball question

"Why is everybody worried that X character died if they can resurrect that person? Shouldn't they be worrying about the villain that is going to explode the universe in front of them?"

I think that all has to do with not wanting to watch your friends and/or family die period. Such was explored in The Venture Brothers. Even if you can revive them actually watching/letting someone you love die, sometimes twice or more will probably always linger with you.

(Still,I'm so glad Toriyama didn't get into this topic and have everyone mopeing around and waxing philosophical.)

Edit: That's not to say The Venture Brothers was the first to explore this.

[cpd12589]

He obviously wasn't thinking straight and saying to himself "whatever, if I'm still alive, we have the dragonballs." No, he was thinking "If this brat dies then I've failed." He found someone who he considered a friend, and friends don't let friends die duh

Why wouldn't he do this?

Yeah I agree. Piccolo definitely wasn't thinking straight and just reacted on pure emotions instead of logic.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

Even in the manga, Goku had plenty of time to come back to Earth. My theory is that he was basically committing suicide, since he later says that he'd rather stay dead, because he's like a magnet for bad guys.

In the manga, in several moments, we saw that fighters often have time to speak but lack time to do anything else like move away.

Basically and logically, they should be able to move faster than they can speak and they should even be faster than sound itself. But that is one of those things that is not consistent in order to make a better story or better character reactions.

Goku, even when he is teleporting, always needs a moment to focus. Just like one of those moments where the character is unable to move faster than he can speak, Goku couldn`t teleport faster than he could speak, and Cell exploded immediately after.

Even before Goku teleported, he was wasting plenty of time saying goodbye to Gohan, telling him to take care of his mother, etc. If he wanted to, he could have ran over to Cell as soon as he started his explosion countdown (how long did he give them? 30 seconds?!) and teleported away. Instead, he took his sweet ass time!

[rereboy]

Even in the manga, Goku had plenty of time to come back to Earth. My theory is that he was basically committing suicide, since he later says that he'd rather stay dead, because he's like a magnet for bad guys.

In the manga, in several moments, we saw that fighters often have time to speak but lack time to do anything else like move away.

Basically and logically, they should be able to move faster than they can speak and they should even be faster than sound itself. But that is one of those things that is not consistent in order to make a better story or better character reactions.

Goku, even when he is teleporting, always needs a moment to focus. Just like one of those moments where the character is unable to move faster than he can speak, Goku couldn`t teleport faster than he could speak, and Cell exploded immediately after.

Even before Goku teleported, he was wasting plenty of time saying goodbye to Gohan, telling him to take care of his mother, etc. If he wanted to, he could have ran over to Cell as soon as he started his explosion countdown (how long did he give them? 30 seconds?!) and teleported away. Instead, he took his sweet ass time!

Yeah, just like they are sometimes faster talking than moving away because of better story and character development and also better character reactions, they also sometimes do stuff like that because of better story and character development and also better character reactions.

I`m sure you agree that all of these 3 things were positively developed by Goku spending a little time saying goodbye to his son. But that doesn`t change the fact that the story implied that Goku had to sacrifice himself to save everyone. Sure, those little inconsistencies exist, but they are all sacrifices made to positively develop those 3 things in light of his sacrifice. And sure, if those inconsistencies were non existing without sacrificing the development, it would be better, but some inconsistencies almost always exist in all works.

[Chibi Mystic Gohan]

You've officially lost me...

[rereboy]

You've officially lost me...

Would the story be better if Goku had just teleported away with Cell without saying anything to Gohan? Or without saying anything to Kaio when he got there and Cell just exploded killing him and Kaio?

Or is the story and also the character development better with Goku pausing to say those words to Gohan before leaving and actually getting the chance to say what he did to Kaio before dying?

Yes, characters pausing to speak or speaking faster than they can react creates slight inconsistencies, but they have a point. And the point is to build a better story, better character development and better reactions which appeal to us.
(Even in fights, like the expressions "impossible!!!" or "damn!". They are so fast that they should be able to get away before actually speaking or they should be faster than the sound that their own words make, but those reactions appeal to the reader/watcher, so the author lets them be).

And make no mistake, Goku`s sacrifice was what the story was going for. We are just discussing its execution here. You just have to think from the author´s point of view. Not everything has a sustainable in-universe answer.

[dbgtFO]

Tv Tropes has a trope for this^, I believe it's called "Talking is a free action."

@Rereboy, since you are basically right, that Goku's death was what AT wanted and we should talk about its execution instead, I will say, that it was an insult to my intelligence, furthermore Goku teleports to Gohan and Cell, when there are 4 seconds left, yet he is able to say goodbye to Gohan, teleport and apologize to King Kai... I assume Cell inherited Freeza's ability to not tell time properly.

[rereboy]

Tv Tropes has a trope for this^, I believe it's called "Talking is a free action."

@Rereboy, since you are basically right, that Goku's death was what AT wanted and we should talk about its execution instead, I will say, that it was an insult to my intelligence, furthermore Goku teleports to Gohan and Cell, when there are 4 seconds left, yet he is able to say goodbye to Gohan, teleport and apologize to King Kai... I assume Cell inherited Freeza's ability to not tell time properly.

Its a shonen manga. Its plot and execution are hardly the eight wonder of the world. And even if it was dead on serious, its very hard to find any work of fiction with a plot with zero inconsistencies. And if Dragon Ball was one of those, maybe you wouldn`t enjoy it as much since it would have a drastically different nature.

In short, I would hardly call it an insult on intelligence. The exchange between Goku and Gohan is successful in developing their characters and being a touching moment (with some closure) and the exchange between Goku and Kaio is successful in being funny and entertaining. And the inconsistencies it creates are not that big or important (its not something so illogical that we just go "well, that is totally stupid... Who came up with this?").

Like most works of fiction, you just have to use a little suspension of belief, forget about those inconsistencies (which are little) and focus on what the plot tried to show us: there was no other way so Goku sacrificed himself to save them.

[dbgtFO]

Tv Tropes has a trope for this^, I believe it's called "Talking is a free action."

@Rereboy, since you are basically right, that Goku's death was what AT wanted and we should talk about its execution instead, I will say, that it was an insult to my intelligence, furthermore Goku teleports to Gohan and Cell, when there are 4 seconds left, yet he is able to say goodbye to Gohan, teleport and apologize to King Kai... I assume Cell inherited Freeza's ability to not tell time properly.

Its a shonen manga. Its plot its hardly the eight wonder of the world. And even if it was dead on serious, its very hard to find any work of fiction with a plot with zero inconsistencies. And if Dragon Ball was one of those, maybe you wouldn`t enjoy it as much since it would have a drastically different nature.

In short, I would hardly call it an insult on intelligence.

Like most works of fiction, you just have to use a little suspension of belief, forget about those inconsistencies (which are little) and focus on what the plot tried to show us: there was no other way so Goku sacrificed himself to save them.

You're right, but still, suspension of DISbelief is one of the tropes, I think you should be careful about. Of course, there are going to be inconsistencies, which are rightfully pointed out by the fans(see TFS episode 9 for example), but when they are downright stupid, I can't do any other thing, than Lol at the whole situation. But it's pretty much stated, that Goku wanted to die anyways a few chapters after, so I can live with it

[the_abberration]

Again, I realize why for plot reasons this occurred (so they would have to go to Nemak and Piccolo would have his change of heart) but is there any logical reason to do this?

Piccolo didn't want Gohan to die because he cared for him. What more do you need?

I think Alienman24 already knows Piccolo sacrificed himself out of compassion. I think he wants to know if compassion wasn't a factor, would Piccolo's sacrifice have logical benefits. Or was it the logical thing to do.

If so, then IMO I would say yes. Krillin was badly injured, Piccolo was outmatched and expendable (since Vegeta knew about Namek), Gohan was the wild card (due to his sleeping power), and there was question to how strong Goku would be. Also Gohan's death could work against Goku in battle. Even if Piccolo didn't care for Gohan, he probably would have made the same decision. Even after Vegeta realizes that everyone can control their battle power, he decides to kill them to prevent them teaming with Goku, and attempt to shake him by killing his friends and son.

Tv Tropes has a trope for this^, I believe it's called "Talking is a free action."

It could also fall into the category of Midstrike Monologues. Anime versions of manga, for example, sometimes end up having moments, where it almost seems like time stands still for the purpose of attacks, but not for the hero to deliver an "In the Name of the Moon" speech. For the moment where the character is speaking, there is no true passage of time. So he wouldn't be able to use that "time" to do anything else since theortically it doesn't exist.

It's like when the bomb has 10 seconds left and the characters have that moving two minute speech. Only to cut back to the timer and there's still 5 seconds left.

Another example would be the Namek implosion/explosion. 3+ hours = 5 minutes.