How strong is Kid Trunks and Goten?

[Perfect]

Generally half and 50% mean the same thing.

[Savage68]

Generally, they do, hence my explaining what the difference in wording can entail, while never implying that they're different values.

[Fox666]

Don't forget that the Androids can lower their power level substantially.

I thought they couldn't control their power level at all, they could only control their level of effort.

Yeah, they don't even have "power levels" in the first place.

Yeah, a Scouter would tell they have a battle power of 5...

Well 17 told Mirai Gohan that he was not even using 50% of his power, interpret it how you want.

That doesn't mean he was, like Freeza, using a percentage of his power.

He was simply controlling his speed and strength to play with Gohan.

[jackjack]

Well 17 told Mirai Gohan that he was not even using 50% of his power, interpret it how you want.

Doesn't really matter if you ask me, because a held back blast from a suppressed Trunks filled her eyes with terror.

[Son_Gohan]

Yeah, a Scouter would tell they have a battle power of 5...

Or give no reading at all, as the component capable of being sensed did not appear to be present within them.

I'd safely say Goten and Trunks are stronger than #18 as SSJs. When demonstrating their maximum power at Kami's temple, Piccolo was visibly shaken by it, which would suggest to me that it was enough to surpass his own. Regardless if he had not trained and become stronger during those 7 years of peace, I'd imagine he'd still have retained the level of power he had at the point of the Cell Games; which would've been equal if not stronger than #17, who in turn, was stronger than #18.

[dbgtFO]

Yeah, a Scouter would tell they have a battle power of 5...

...I'd imagine he'd still have retained the level of power he had at the point of the Cell Games; which would've been equal if not stronger than #17, who in turn, was stronger than #18.

It would have been way above #17, no doubt about it.

[Savage68]

When demonstrating their maximum power at Kami's temple, Piccolo was visibly shaken by it, which would suggest to me that it was enough to surpass his own.

*shockface!* isn't an implication of a power having surpassed your own.

[lash]

True.

So how do we know SSJ Goten and Trunks surpassed #18 based on reaction?
What's all the support surrounding that again? The only implication I see is that they are powerful enough to be a danger to her, but not necessarily stronger.

[Savage68]

She surmised that the match needed to end. Instantly. By way of a SUPRESSED ki blast. And cited the blast's speed and power while doing so.

What more is needed?

[lash]

Even accounting all that it still doesn't mean they are stronger than her.

Suppressed/holding back is an ambiguous statement. Using 95% of Trunks' maximum power still fulfills the statement.
She needed to end the match because it was dangerous. Meaning they are powerful enough to worry her. That's the furthest conclusion you can come to.
So she cited the blast's power and speed. Citing something isn't an implication that the attack surpasses your own capabilities.

[Rocketman]

It is also a tournament. Even if they're not strong enough to hurt her, they can still be strong enough to knock her out of the ring.

Recall that SS Vegeta was able to throw 18 around quite a bit and he was weaker than her.

[Savage68]

Even accounting all that it still doesn't mean they are stronger than her.

Ugh, what is it with you and always playing Devil's Advocate? Fine, I'll play the other side of the coin: Things that imply #18 to be stronger.

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[astrallite]

I thought they couldn't control their power level at all, they could only control their level of effort.

Yeah, they don't even have "power levels" in the first place.

Yeah, a Scouter would tell they have a battle power of 5...

Holy cow, talk about circle jerk, nobody even read the original post and just starts arguing about semantics...thats the internet for you.

[lash]

Ugh, what is it with you and always playing Devil's Advocate?

I find it amusing.

Fine, I'll play the other side of the coin: Things that imply #18 to be stronger.

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18 actually defeated them in the tournament and came in second place remember?

No but really, it's just finding actual proof that supports SSJ Trunks/Goten > 18 that I'm looking for in this case. Not arguing which is more likely. Because I always support the unlikely.

[Rocketman]

Things that imply #18 to be stronger.

1. Fuck those little shitstains.

[Nazi Cola]

Recall that SS Vegeta was able to throw 18 around quite a bit and he was weaker than her.

She was letting him tire himself out IIRC. So it'd only make sense for him to be able to throw her around a bit, eh?

[jackjack]

Suppressed/holding back is an ambiguous statement. Using 95% of Trunks' maximum power still fulfills the statement.

Not really, because that totally defeats the point of holding back. If Trunks were already using 95%, then he might as well go all out. Surely not something significant enough to be pointed out twice. Trunks is one who suggests they should control the power of the blast (this line is missing in Viz for some reason), so she won't die, implying it would have killed her otherwise, and on top of all of this, there are implications that the boys likely aren't even at full power.

[Son_Gohan]

*shockface!* isn't an implication of a power having surpassed your own.

Though the crux of that scene was Goten and Trunks trying to surprise Goku with the immensity of their power. Yet only Piccolo is blown away by it, while Goku lacks to react at all. To me, this contrasts a difference in their levels of power; it may not have been anything special to Goku since he was naturally stronger as a Super Saiyan, but for Piccolo, who already had a lot of experience around Super Saiyans by then, and even surpassed them in power at one point in time... I can only see him reacting that way if the kids' powers were just that much stronger than his own.

[lash]

Suppressed/holding back is an ambiguous statement. Using 95% of Trunks' maximum power still fulfills the statement.

Not really, because that totally defeats the point of holding back. If Trunks were already using 95%, then he might as well go all out. Surely not something significant enough to be pointed out twice.

Trunks is one who suggests they should control the power of the blast (this line is missing in Viz for some reason), so she won't die, implying it would have killed her otherwise, and on top of all of this, there are implications that the boys likely aren't even at full power.

Holding back is not using all that you are capable of. Anyway you slice it, anything less than 100% fulfills the point. If Trunks was already using 95% of his power then no, it doesn't necessarily mean that he might as well go all out. Simply put, he may feel 18 can handle 95% of his power and not 100%. Him using 95% wasn't meant to be taken literally by the way.

The implication is different to me. Trunks was the one who first brought up the idea of using a Ki attack...implying that he originally thinks she's strong enough to withstand such. Aside from Trunks' own held back blast Ki blast, I saw no implications made that the boys likely weren't at full power. I'm curious to hear them though.

[dbgtFO]

The implication is different to me. Trunks was the one who first brought up the idea of using a Ki attack...implying that he originally thinks she's strong enough to withstand such. Aside from Trunks' own held back blast Ki blast, I saw no implications made that the boys likely weren't at full power. I'm curious to hear them though.

In viz version the dialouge goes like this:

Trunks: "We're still at a disadvantage - We should go with chi blasts!"
Goten: "Chi?! Are you sure?"
Trunks: "Yeah! It won't kill HER! That's no. 18!"
#18 says some stuff...
Goten: "Don't use full power!"
Trunks: " I know!"
Taken from Vizbig 8.

In the danish version it's like this:

Trunks: "1 Ki blast and she's done for!"
Goten: "You're going to kill her!"
Trunks: "I'll not go all out!" It IS after all no. 18!"
#18 says some stuff...
Goten: "Don't use full power!"
Trunks: "I know!"
It seems Viz missed that line Trunks made, as jackjack pointed out, while at the same time the danish version missed out the "disadvantage" part