In defense of Dragon Ball

[The S]

Nearly every interview I read that is held with a mangaka, they cite Dragon Ball, Dr. Slump, or Toriyama-sensei himself as one of their major influences.

[Xyex]

First, yes, Galaxy Express 999 was pretty good... though I didn't follow it entirely since I was busy with other things while watching it...

Nearly every interview I read that is held with a mangaka, they cite Dragon Ball, Dr. Slump, or Toriyama-sensei himself as one of their major influences.

Ya, a lot of people don't seem to realize that DB was a massive influence on all current manga artists/writers. I brought that up once on another board where they were saying how bad DB/Z was... ya, no one believed me. I think their reply was "n00b! every1 noes DB sux!!!!11!"

[Jerseymilk]

I'll tell people why anime fans bash Dragonball. It's not so much because it's a dying fad, but because anime fans are a bunch of fickle morons these days. They rave about the latest series, even if they aren't that good. And unfortunately, with the ever-growing problem of most of the older series already being bought and brought over here, most of the titles being released these days are mediocre ones. But you won't see that stopping these idiots from thinking they're masterpieces. It's why I really dislike a lot of the North American anime fandom nowadays.

And I liked your points about how many animes were influenced from Toriyama DBW, except forget about mentioning something like Urusei Yatsura, these fans today wouldn't know what the hell you're talking about. XD Even though it's a superior comedy series to Ranma and truthfully, Takahashi's other comedies have basically been rehashes of it ever since.

Oh and I'm glad to see someone else is a fan of Leiji Matsumoto's work.^^ I've always found he's like Toriyama in that his characters have such a unique and beautiful design to them. Hmmmm, now I'm in the mood to watch Interstellar 5555 again.^^

[Meri]

Agreed as well. But there's always one aspect of the "Americans Now Hate DBZ" phenomenon that I found interesting: to THIS DAY, DragonBall is still a beloved franchise in Japan, so much so that new merch has been coming out of the country steadily for the last couple of years. As others have already stated, today's most popular manga-ka (Oda, etc.) cite DragonBall as a favorite and a major influence. Considering that the Japanese still love this series, I find it that much more annoying yet amusing at the same time that people here in the US are quick to jump on the "let's bash DBZ" bandwagon. It's like... if people in Japan can still love a show as old as DragonBall... what the hell is wrong with the American haters?

I feel like pointing and laughing at the rabid Naruto fans who so feverishly claim Naruto is SO different from DBZ and say "haha, your manga-ka loves DragonBall, eat THAT!". They're so blinded by their hate for DB that they don't even realize that the creators of the new shows they love actually grew up on DragonBall.

[oponok]

It's funny how people argue that there is nothing TO DBZ, at all.

Terribly ironic, considering 99% of all anime has no redeeming qualities beyond superficial elements. Nearly everything is a cliché: characters, story elements, design: and many of these were in fact started by Dragonball Z and the-also-underrated-by-anime-fans Akira. As a film student, I have had the pleasure of looking back at things I watched before attending college and began seeing them completely differently.

And DAMN, let me tell you, I really can't stomach much of that stuff. It's generally very poor. Bad cuts, annoying stock characters, tired plots, absurd amounts of crotch shots, and no philosophical context whatsoever is what I generally find. Even if it's admittedly just a fighting anime, the choreography and drama are not on par with Dragonball or Akira, and plots that MIGHT have been interesting are typically hampered by lame "cinematography," melodrama, and dumb plot twists. Frankly, this is the same way it is with every mass produced medium: mainstream cinema, American television, books, etc. And most of the animes praised for their intellegence, Evangelion included, are really more like pointless excursions that fail to leave an emotional impact other than immediate satisfaction. Frankly, none of that is art anymore than a pair of khaki's. I'm not saying anime is bad, but people should definately be ready to give a reason to talk down to Dragonball fans and be able to defend their own personal choices. There is anime out there that's looking to speak to people on some level or redefine animation itself, but like the cinema, it's that elusive daimond in the rough.

Dragonball Z on the other hand, I still find myself praising. Ironically, it's what people complain about most that gives Dragonball it's greatest strengths: it's length. The utter length of Dragonball allows its audience to literally grow with the cast of characters as they grow and change, most notable Vegeta and Gohan. Also, the relationships between characters, mostly father-son, are very much worth watching the series for.

The creators of Dragonball were amusingly clever when it came to foretelling imagery and dialogue. As when Vegeta states to Goku just before the Cell games that he can fight Cell first, but "I will be the one to finish him." Sequences such as this are to me evidence that Toriyama, despite protests, has talent as a storyteller. And reoccuring imagery, such as Gohan lying on Vegeta at the end of the Saiyan arc, and Gohan lying on top of Vegeta after he saved him from Cell visually suggest somehow complicated relationships that need not be spoken, but are definately part of the story. Whereas other series generally focus on strictly obvious relationships between characters, such as A loves B, B hates C, C loves A, etc, DBZ includes amusing, less apparent relationships. Everyone recognizes Goku and Vegeta's fued, but what about Vegeta and Gohan? Piccolo and Vegeta? Gohan and Krillin? Tien and Vegeta? There are little hints dropped to let us know that these characters actually acknowledge each other's existance and knowingly occupy the same world.

The directors of the anime sometimes make some very interesting and often very cool shot compositions and sequences, whereas other anime don't care to innovate. One can cite many examples: Vegeta catching Cell while upside down, sideways shots during Vegeta's fight with 19 and conversation with 20 (and these are not pointless "stylistic" shots; I believe the director's reiterating the series' manga heritage, as these rotated shots match their original panels), and the scene where Goku tells Vegeta about the Hyperbolic yaddayaddayadda, during which the camera doesn't stop moving.

Let's also consider the huge influence Dragonball and Akira had on American cinema: there'd be no Matrix. Not that I'm a big fan, but what would Hollywood be like now without it? (Though, admittedly, who cares about Hollywood...)

Dragonball's cast of characters, with their designated American superheroish easy-to-remember dual or tricolored palettes, are worth mentioning, but I'm tired of typing. Again, I do not mean to talk down to fans of anime, but many really need to stop taking every new fad so seriously, especially when they hop on whatever new anime bandwagon pulls up every two months. It's just stupid and expensive. These new shows are often like coats of paint over something else, which was, itself, a coat of paint over something else. The problem with these shows is that they lack heart, and therefore are forgotten, unlike you-know-what Z.

This is just what I've noticed. Don't bother defending your favorite anime, as this isn't the place for it. I'm not targeting anything in specific, just a general observation, and this is just MY opinion. It's unfortunate that I think I need to say this, but well, this is the internet and I don't want to be verbally torn asunder.

And I don't mean to make DBZ sound like the greatest thing since sliced bread, but this is a topic about the positives of DBZ, not a total evaluation.

It's arguable whether many of these more interesting elements of DBZ aren't really there by the series creators' intentions, but they're there nonetheless.

[laserkid]

ah yes, I am most familiar with the rambling of the Narutard fanboys. Yes I like Naruto just fine but there are people out there who just cant make themselves relize Naruto isnt the be all end all of anime.

At any rate, people hate DBZ generally speaking because of what they hear - and its extremely expensive to watch properly. I know this first hand as a friend of mine having seen a Freeza era episode and a Buu era episode only, and based on what others said, came to hate DBZ. I was able to use logic on him that dubbed randomly apart episodes don't make a good way to judge a series. But I never got him to say he liked Dragonball, he cited price ofn getting all the DVDs as his reasopn why he was not going to really give it a shot. Well that and he rabidly hates subtitled anime, and doesnt like bad dubs either, buit that was a secondary reason.

Ultimatly the case is the "me too" syndroime following the people who dont like it. Much like how its become cool to hate on Star Wars and George Lucas, who have the same sort of influence on the American imagination, hating on Toriyama and Dragonball is also cool now.

[Heritic]

I find most American haters hate DB because of it's popularity. They want to be "underground" and watch animes that are subtitled and haven't become mainstream like DB has. If the Naruto dub, coming in September, achieves a similar popularity I can see many of its "fans" starting to hate it as well. Some people just hate anything that gets popular.

[Jerseymilk]

Actually, the really "elitist" fans already hate Naruto. Hence, the term now "Narutards". They love bashing them as much as DB fans. That's the sad state of affairs that the anime community has become. It only takes a series just getting too popular in the small circles of the community itself to make people reject it.

And Oponok, I have no idea where you get the idea that Akira is overlooked by fans. Are you kidding? Even people who barely know anything about anime have seen Akira or at least heard of it. I've heard tons of people rave about it and say it's the be and end all. I mean it's been a staple representation of anime for years.

[laserkid]

I always assumed the term Narutard was for the crazy people.

But then again, you're right the elitists like to keep their fansubs on whatever the new thing is and hate everything they once liked because its old. Makes them feel special to get free watching of stuff before it comes out for some reason.

[*PINHEAD*]

It's much like the music scene. These fans are very much into a certain band, but once it gets signed to a major label and gets more exposure, the old fans start to hate it.

Just yesterday, I was on the IGN boards (yes, I frequent the IGN boards too , and going here is a real break ), and people were bashing a user there for admitting to liking Dragon Ball. Then after all the flaming, the user started bashing DBZ as well. Pfft, kids these days.

[tarsonis]

It can be said about anything. When something gets popular, it simultaneously loses popularity with people who liked it already. Which in my opinion, is complete nonsense.

It can be movies, music, anime, anything. It seems though, that a lot of these people are again those who can't really form their own opinion about something, who cater to whatever their friends are saying at the time, and think they're elite because they only like things that no one else knows about yet. Depressing, isn't it?

As my friend once put it, people are retarded for hating on mainstream.

[The S]

Would it be too much to say that Toriyama-sensei is the manga equivelant of Shakespeare, in that many stories (in manga, of course, for Toriyama) have some basis in the original?

[Super Sonic]

Speaking of Doctor Slump, I have a question since I don't have the money to get the DB dvd with Goku's adventure in Penguin Village. How the hell is Arale's name supposed to be pronounced? Every time I've read her name, I've done so as "uh-rayl", which might not be the proper way. And I'm sure it's not like how the dub pronounced it, "uh-ray-lee".

[tarsonis]

If Arale is the correct spelling, then it would most likely be ah-rah-lay.

[Adamant]

It's Ah-rah-leh. Japanese is phonetical.